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Irn-Bru read what I just wrote- (D bag)

RedskinsRule56 wrote:Irn-Bru read what I just wrote- (D bag)

I have. And?

RR... please check PMs.

Maybe you should re-read it a few times then.. What is your logic then? To end up with Barkley or Jones who have a much higher chance of busting then Luck and are much less likely to be as good as Luck. Then if we end up Jones or Barkley and he busts and Luck is a beast how will you feel? Do you really think winning 2 games versus 5 or 6 is going to matter in a few years?

I am looking at the best interest of our franchise down the road, (over the next 10-15 years not now in a rebuilding year) Especially not when Andrew Luck is the prize awaiting the team with the first pick next year.

I have added even more to it.

There is little argument... Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are far and away the most talented and skilled quarterbacks in the league... yet, somehow, they don't win every game, or every superbowl. On the other hand, players such as Eli Manning (selected only because he was a Manning), Trent Dilfer, and Kurt Warner managed to win more than their share. If we go back further, our own Redskins contributed Doug Williams, a career journeman, Mark Rypen... a sound game manager with a cannon arm, and Joe Theisman (despite someone's statement, he was a very good quarterback, but not a "franchise" type. Joe needed an excellent scheme and supporting cast.)

I would LOVE to have a franchise qb... but it's not necessary. We are not likely to get a shot at Luck... but, just like the end of last season, when no one would have whined had we lost the last 4 or 3, games to improve our draft position... Shanahan had none of it. The game plans he arrived with were intended to win. He's not going to toss any games for a shot at Luck... forget it. Get over it... it's not happening.

If we are to have a shot at luck, it will be either because our team egitimately sucks... or there is a major pre-draft deal for the 1.

Pulp Exposure I believe Luck is the next Peyton Manning and that is why I want to tank to land him. That is why I am rooting against my favorite sports team this year. My number one team, I love all my DC teams but the Redskins are what I live and die for more so then then Caps, Wizards, Nationals, Terps and MSU (alum)

SkinsJock wrote:

RedskinsRule56 wrote:I am a diehard Redskins fan. Do not ever question my fanhood.

You are NOT a diehard Redskins fan - that is NOT true


I do not question your fanhood - you are showing us what type of fan you are

you can claim to be a fan of the Redskins - from what you have posted here - you are a BAD Redskins fan

Dude, you have no right questioning someone's fanhood, especially if you have never met this guy. This franchise has lacked a franchise QB. Since 1993 we have had 20 different starting QB'S for this team. And eventually that will be 21 when the season starts depending on if it's John Wreck, excuse me John Beck, or Rex Grossman. This team has been a laughing stock for years now, I'm not saying that I want this team to go 2-14, 4-12, even know I am hard on this team, but I can understand his point of view. I would gladly trade one bad season for 12-15 great season to where we are like the Colts, Jets, Steelers etc. This team needs to look ahead to the future and not look at some 2nd or 3rd string QB trying to be the starter full well knowing that these guys can't.

RedskinsRule56 wrote:Why are you fans unable to see the best interest for future success for the Redskins franchise is to land Andrew Luck? Kazoo Skins you do not know me so do not tell me I am not a fan.

You're not down with the idea of a "message board," are you? Here's the 411. You post your views, I post mine. No harm, no foul. But claiming you get to do the former while I don't get to do the latter's not going to happen.

But seriously, you post extreme positions then don't like getting a response? You kinda, gotta, chose my friend...

RedskinsRule56 wrote:Maybe you should re-read it a few times then.. What is your logic then? To end up with Barkley or Jones who have a much higher chance of busting then Luck and are much less likely to be as good as Luck. Then if we end up Jones or Barkley and he busts and Luck is a beast how will you feel? Do you really think winning 2 games versus 5 or 6 is going to matter in a few years?

I am looking at the best interest of our franchise down the road, (over the next 10-15 years not now in a rebuilding year) Especially not when Andrew Luck is the prize awaiting the team with the first pick next year.

Losing is never a path to winning. Winning is a path to winning.

jeremyroyce wrote:Dude, you have no right questioning someone's fanhood, especially if you have never met this guy

I have three words for you...mess age board... What is so complicated about this? And if someone comes onto THE HOGS a Washington Redskin FAN site and trashes our team, we have the right to question anything we want.

RedskinsRule56 wrote:HarleyHog we won SB's before the Free Agency Era. That is a dumb argument. Look at the SB winning QB's since 1993. I do not need to go over this list again.
Favre
Elway (2)
Aikman (3)
Brees
Rodgers
Roethlisberger (2)
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
Steve Young
Brady(3)

Notice the trend?

Yeah, I do.
Akili Smith 3rd overall 1999
Ryan Leaf 2nd overall 1998
Heath Schuler 3rd overall 1994
Rick Mirer 2nd overall 1993
David Klingler 6th overall 1992
Kelly Stouffer 6th overall 1987
Todd Blackledge 7th overall 1983
Art Schlichter 4th overall 1982
Rich Campbell 6th overall 1981
Jerry Tagge 11th overall 1972
A bunch of "sure bets" that sucked the big one. If you end up in a position to pick a top QB prospect, it is still a crapshoot.to sacrifice a season just to TRY to position yourself at the table is folly. If you want that pick badly enough, you make a sweet offer, if you are so far away you can't do that, maybe you don't need that PROSPECT so badly after all.

There are so many things wrong with what RR56 has posted I ready don't have time to post all of my comments but here are some of my top thoughts:

1 It is never going to happen. Team is too good and MS won't tank the season.
2 Luck could be the next Manning or her could be the next Leaf, Akili Smith, Shuler, or a Palmer, McNabb, or Kosar.
3 He may not be the first pick in the draft (remember Locker was going to be the 1st pick until he came back for another year)
4 Lets assume he is the first pick and the Skins go 0-16 or 1-15 and draft him. MS would no longer be the HC and there goes the OL, because none of our inner three could start on any other OL that doesn't run the ZBS. Also, the new hc might not want the 3-4.
5 MS may pick someone else (everyone thought we wanted Gabbert and we traded away the chance to pick him)

These are just some off my thoughts. If you want to talk about this any more, maybe you should go to Dragonmount.com because they love talking about fantasy novels and that is what this is.

jeremyroyce wrote:Dude, you have no right questioning someone's fanhood, especially if you have never met this guy.

Why not? If someone gets on the boards and says "we should lose our games" and "I'm rooting against the team," there's nothing wrong with calling a spade, a spade.

RedskinsRule56 wrote:Maybe you should re-read it a few times then..

Hmm. Once was about all I could take. No thanks.

What is your logic then?

My logic is this: no one player is worth more than having a solid system in place and finding the players to implement and execute that system. So if the choice is between pursuing a clear, solid plan with urgency and professionalism on the one hand, and throwing all of that out of the window on the other to get Luck, the choice is clear to me.

And that's even assuming we'd get Luck by going 2-14 this year, which is far from certain. Imagine throwing the whole organization into chaos and not getting your guy.

And that's also even assuming, should we find ourselves "fortunate" (as you'd see it) enough to draft Luck, that he would become the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Imagine throwing the whole organization into chaos and drafting a bust.

Sorry. Or, to put it this way, if you think he's that sure of a bet, there's this bridge I'd like you to see. On sale, cheap . . .

To end up with Barkley or Jones who have a much higher chance of busting then Luck and are much less likely to be as good as Luck. Then if we end up Jones or Barkley and he busts and Luck is a beast how will you feel? Do you really think winning 2 games versus 5 or 6 is going to matter in a few years?

Yes. Do you have any idea what effect it would have on a team to purposefully throw games? If we want a locker room full of cancer and apathy, then your strategy is the way to go. No chance in hell that Luck or anyone else is going to come in and turn the tide.

I am looking at the best interest of our franchise down the road, (over the next 10-15 years not now in a rebuilding year) Especially not when Andrew Luck is the prize awaiting the team with the first pick next year.

I have no doubt you think you have the team's best interest in mind, but what you recommend would in fact be disastrous. There's a reason not a single successful coach or GM in the entire history of the league has adopted anything remotely resembling your approach.

The only even remotely conceivable scenario for what you suggest would be SF49er coach Harbaugh. He could tank as a first year coach and still be around next draft. His continuity having coached Luck loads the dice a tad, but they still gotta roll

And the 9rrs could well end up 2-14 anyway

HarleyHog wrote:And the 9rrs could well end up 2-14 anyway

Looking at their QBs and the offensive personnel all learning a new system and losing their nose tackle on defense, they will be very lucky (no pun intended) to reach 2-14.

All time stupidest thread. Yay - you win!

I know that some fans think that we only need to get a QB like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady and everything will be just fine

How can you think that?


We are looking at a FO that has made a lot of progress - we have a ways to go - there is no way that we would instantly be successful if Peyton Manning was our QB right now with the offensive line still getting there
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY - AND this is going to happen, if we get your wish - NO HC

okay! You claim to be a Redskin fan - so now you want the franchise to go 2-14 - right?

We lose our HC and most likely Bruce Allen

We lose Kyle S whom many think will be one of the really good OCs

We lose Haslett and the 3-4 defense that's about to become a top 10 defense SOON - that's STUPID

are you crazy?

and you wonder why we question your loyalty?


Please let me remind you - Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl
Ryan Leaf was going to be one of the greatest QBs ever
Heath Shuler - we are still recovering

we do not need fans like you - leave this franchise alone

we are looking at a lot of good things happening here - well some of us are, and you want it ALL to go in the garbage?

are you really serious about being a fan?


I DO QUESTION WHAT SORT OF FAN YOU ARE - YOU ARE NOT A REDSKIN FAN

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject:
Ok Skins Jock lets keep doing things the way we have been doing them since 1993. Let me remind you and everyone else that we have won 2 playoff games since then. Lets keep trotting out crap QB after crap QB and lets see how far that gets us. Look at all the successful franchises they all built through the draft, and through bringing in FA's that fit there scheme. Also they all have franchise QB's of which most came through using a first round draft pick on.

Colts- Peyton Manning 1st overall
Steelers- Big Ben top 15 pick
Patriots- Brady 6th round pick
Packers- Aaron Rodgers 24th overall
Saints- signed Brees via Free Agency
Giants- Eli Manning 1st overall
Eagles- Dog Killer- top 5 pick
Ravens- Joe Flacco- 1st round pick
Chargers- Phillip Rivers- 4th overall
Falcons- Matt Ryan- 1st overall
-perennial contender and playoff teams

lets look at up and coming franchises

STL- 1st overall pick Bradford
TB - top 15 pick Freeman
Detroit- first overall pick Stafford
Houston- traded for Schaub

Point is that nearly every playoff/SB contender and up coming franchises have drafted there QB in the first round.

Now lets look at teams that need a franchise QB and they hope they just drafted one

1. Bungals- Andy Dalton- early 2nd round
2. Jacksonville- Blaine Gabbert- 10th overall- Trade up with Skins
3. Tennessee- Jake Locker- I believe was 8th overall
4. Panthers- Scam Newton 1st overall
5. Vikings- Christian Ponder- 12th overall

all of those teams are desperate that the QB they drafted will be a franchise QB for them. Obviously not all will be as some will bust.

Teams that still need a franchise QB are

Bills
Redskins
Niners
Dolphins
Bungals- Depends how Dalton plays as a rookie and what he shows
Raiders
Seahawks
Cardinals???- Kolb? we shall see- However the Cardinals better hope he is a beast because of the massive contract he received they are stuck with him. (Kolb is making more money then Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers)

What do all those teams have in common? They all are likely to suck, and will miss playoffs. Arizona is the only team on that list that I give a chance to make the playoffs and that is largely based upon them playing in the weakest division in the NFL and the Rams having an extremely difficult schedule.

I will take this even further for everyone currently the top 5 rated QB prospects for the 2012 draft according to most experts are

1. Andrew Luck
2. Landry Jones
3. Matt Barkley
4. Nick Foles
5. Kirk Cousins

The Redskins will definitely be drafting a QB in the first round in the 2012 draft unless by some miracle John Beck is legit. Let's be realistic everyone John Beck is not legit. Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells 2 of the best personnel evaluators in the NFL both agreed that Beck is not only not a franchise QB but not even worthy of being on there roster as a 2nd or even 3rd stringer.

Didn't you guys all learn with our first round QB Busts--- Heath Shuler, Jason Campbell, Patrick Ramsey-- These 3 clowns contributing to setting our franchise back for many years.

Out of those 5 a few are likely to bust given the history of QB's busting. I can tell you right now as an MSU alum Kirk Cousins is not an NFL QB. He is a career backup at best Imo.

Andrew Luck is the most likely QB on that list not to bust and I feel nearly a lock to be amazing and the next great QB in the NFL. Jones and Barkley have a much higher chance of busting and or not being as good as Luck. Also since it is nearly a given that some of those likely first round QB's will bust that ofcourse will set back a franchise 2-4 years or if you are SF with Alex Smith 5 years now and counting.

One final alternative is that we win 4-6 games which puts us out of position for Andrew Luck and we offer atleast 2 First round drafts to the team with the first pick in order to land him. Remember when we thankfully got outbid by the Jets to land Sanchez? Now keep in mind several teams are going to be DYING and DESPERATE For Luck it might be the largest bidding war ever in the NFL Draft if the team that ends up with the first pick is willing to listen. I do not want this to be our only option to landing Luck as there is no guarantee we would we land Luck as well as if we did it would cost us at minimum 2 first round picks.

Andrew Luck*, QB, Stanford
Height: 6-4. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2012): Top 3 Pick.
8/18/11: Andrew Luck probably would have been the first pick in the 2011 NFL Draft if he had chosen to leave college. Right now he is the clear favorite to be the top pick in the 2012 NFL Draft. Many NFL scouts feel that Luck is one of the most pro-ready quarterback prospects over the past decade. Luck will be challenged to meet expectations for this season, but Stanford has talent around him so it won't be a one-man show.

Stanford enters the season ranked sixth overall in the coaches poll. Only Oregon ranks ahead of the Cardinal from the PAC 12. Thus, Luck will enter the season with a target on his jersey. Last year, Luck completed an amazing 71 percent of his passes as a sophomore. He threw for 32 touchdowns with only eight interceptions. Luck also ran for 453 yards and three scores. Luck showed massive improvement compared to the previous season. In his first year as a starter in 2009 Luck threw for 2,575 yards and 13 touchdowns with four interceptions. He completed 56 percent of his passes and ran for 354 yards and two touchdowns.

Luck is a complete package. He has the size, arm strength and mechanics to be a lethal pocket passer. He also has good mobility, a seven yards per carry average in his career, and escapability when he sees a rush. Luck's footwork is phenomenal and he clearly is well-groomed by former head coach Jim Harbaugh. Luck is extremely intelligent. As a result some question Luck's competitive drive because he is described as somewhat nerdy and focused on his academics, but Luck is a winner and a hard worker that looks like a very safe pick at the top of the draft.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:Dude, you have no right questioning someone's fanhood, especially if you have never met this guy

I have three words for you...mess age board... What is so complicated about this? And if someone comes onto THE HOGS a Washington Redskin FAN site and trashes our team, we have the right to question anything we want.

First off I apologize because there was a post written by RedskinsRule56 that I didn't see prior to me writing my post so once again I apologize. But, with that being said I understand where y'all are coming from, however I understand where RedskinsRule56 is coming from in most of his posts and from what I read he makes a good, legitimate argument in most of those posts. Look, I understand that this is a message board, but he and anybody else on this board does have their opinion and they should be able to post their opinion without getting trashed.

jeremyroyce wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:Dude, you have no right questioning someone's fanhood, especially if you have never met this guy

I have three words for you...mess age board... What is so complicated about this? And if someone comes onto THE HOGS a Washington Redskin FAN site and trashes our team, we have the right to question anything we want.

First off I apologize because there was a post written by RedskinsRule56 that I didn't see prior to me writing my post so once again I apologize. But, with that being said I understand where y'all are coming from, however I understand where RedskinsRule56 is coming from in most of his posts and from what I read he makes a good, legitimate argument in most of those posts. Look, I understand that this is a message board, but he and anybody else on this board does have their opinion and they should be able to post their opinion without getting trashed.

He and anybody else on this board does have their opinion, but he and anybody else on this board reaps what he sows. You reap what you sow. That one might be a bit overused. Personally, I like this one for the occasion:

But seriously, you post extreme positions then don't like getting a response? You kinda, gotta, choose my friend...

- Kaz 8/22/2011