Criticism Abounds....Skins are soft....!!!

Talk about the Washington Football Team here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
SkinsJock
08 Champ
08 Champ
Posts: 18385
youtube meble na wymiar Warszawa
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: New England

Re: Criticism Abounds....Skins are soft....!!!

Post by SkinsJock »

tribeofjudah wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/27/AR2010092705800.html

Even your girl Sally is chiming in.....
The main thing we learned from the Washington Redskins' loss to the St. Louis Rams is that it's going to take two more drafts to rebuild the team, not just one. The Redskins have now been beaten in consecutive weeks by two of the youngest teams in the league, and they've faded badly in the fourth quarter while doing it. That's not about scheme, or one or two positions on the field, or some weird curse-like malaise. It's about their inability to punch the other team in the mouth.
The article was not as bad as I thought it would be and for this reporter not as stupid as most

I don't think that the future is as bad as Sally makes out and we really have a lot more time to go before we can really look to what direction Allen & Shanahan feel the need to head in

I do agree that it is really important to get a lot younger and I think they will do that - how long that will take is anyone's guess

I'm still hoping to see improvement in the short term as the players get better used to each other and the defense especially needs to get it in gear better

some are very impatient and don't see any plan or any progress - I'm willing to wait a little longer

I definetly do not see any reason to project what if anything we need to do until we have a clearer picture of how bad things really are and not just based on what has happened in 3 games
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
User avatar
everydayAskinsday
Hog
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:44 pm
Location: Italy

Post by everydayAskinsday »

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
Wahoo McDaniels wrote:You do realize that there's no way McNabb re-signs with the Skins next year. Why would he possibly want to come back to this dumpster when he's gonna have the Vikings knocking down his door.
Seriously, do you really think McNabb signs with Minnesota? That would be 2 rebuilding processes in 2 yrs, because there's NO WAY Childress stays after Favre retires.

And, while McNabb, survived the Philly winters, I can't see him moving his family to a place where winters are even more harsh! Not buying McNabb to Minny.
McNabb's also a loyal guy. He didn't leave Phillly until they drove him out. I think he's here to stay. Also, some Skins "fans" like to bash on how no player would want to play here, and yet they not only do but most of them actually do want to stay when they could leave. It's more a bash the Skins story then a reality story
McNabb was loyal to Philly the team that drafted him and whom he played 11 years for.. there is nothing that ties him to Washington other than a trade he had no control over...

Im with the belief that this will be a one and done campaign for McNabb UNLESS this team shows improvement over the season and Allen & Shanny can convince him that the team will be competitive enough to compete for a championship as early as next year..

If we fall flat on our face this season and show no hope for the future why would he want to come back.. he is 33 and chasing a championship

Right now as I see it we are not a team that is equipped to win one before his window runs out .. I believe in the new coach and FO but I do think it will take a couple years to get this thing right
KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
kazoo
Posts: 10293
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Kazmania

Post by KazooSkinsFan »

everydayAskinsday wrote:McNabb was loyal to Philly the team that drafted him and whom he played 11 years for.. there is nothing that ties him to Washington other than a trade he had no control over...
So drafting him spawns loyalty, but our giving up two draft picks to get him doesn't? Your argument isn't the way people are. If management is decent to him, he'll stay and you can quote me on that.
Hail to the Redskins!

Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
User avatar
everydayAskinsday
Hog
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:44 pm
Location: Italy

Post by everydayAskinsday »

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
everydayAskinsday wrote:McNabb was loyal to Philly the team that drafted him and whom he played 11 years for.. there is nothing that ties him to Washington other than a trade he had no control over...
So drafting him spawns loyalty, but our giving up two draft picks to get him doesn't? Your argument isn't the way people are. If management is decent to him, he'll stay and you can quote me on that.
Im not saying being drafted alone spawns loyalty but the fact that he had invested 11 years of his career there does.. and also the fact that each year they put a team around him that was capable of making the playoffs.. right now we dont have a team he can be the X factor for ..

sure he makes our offense alittle better but it takes a complete team with a good QB to win.. not just a good QB..

the management can pump up his ego everyday and whatever else necessary to make him feel loved but at this point in his career do you really think he wants to stay somewhere that just isnt capable of putting a winner around him .. hes 33 with a 2 to 3 year window..

I know nothing about his desire to be treated right by the organization but Im pretty sure if you ask him he will tell you wants to be able to win a championship before all is said and done
KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
kazoo
Posts: 10293
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Kazmania

Post by KazooSkinsFan »

everydayAskinsday wrote:the management can pump up his ego everyday and whatever else necessary to make him feel loved but at this point in his career do you really think he wants to stay somewhere that just isnt capable of putting a winner around him .. hes 33 with a 2 to 3 year window..

I know nothing about his desire to be treated right by the organization but Im pretty sure if you ask him he will tell you wants to be able to win a championship before all is said and done
You can believe that, but I'm just telling you it's not the way people are. There are the ones in it for themselves and there are the ones who like to belong. He likes to belong.
Hail to the Redskins!

Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Canes Skin
Posts: 6684
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:02 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by CanesSkins26 »

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
Wahoo McDaniels wrote:You do realize that there's no way McNabb re-signs with the Skins next year. Why would he possibly want to come back to this dumpster when he's gonna have the Vikings knocking down his door.
Seriously, do you really think McNabb signs with Minnesota? That would be 2 rebuilding processes in 2 yrs, because there's NO WAY Childress stays after Favre retires.

And, while McNabb, survived the Philly winters, I can't see him moving his family to a place where winters are even more harsh! Not buying McNabb to Minny.
McNabb's also a loyal guy. He didn't leave Phillly until they drove him out. I think he's here to stay. Also, some Skins "fans" like to bash on how no player would want to play here, and yet they not only do but most of them actually do want to stay when they could leave. It's more a bash the Skins story then a reality story
I agree with Kazoo, with one caveat. If this season really goes poorly, and by that I mean only 3-4 wins with some blowout losses and losses to bad teams, then I could see McNabb going elsewhere. But if we show improvement and are competitive in our games I think that he stays for sure. Sure, we would prefer an extension now, but with the labor uncertainty it doesn't make sense for either side to sign a deal.
Suck and Luck
KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
kazoo
Posts: 10293
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Kazmania

Post by KazooSkinsFan »

CanesSkins26 wrote:I agree with Kazoo, with one caveat. If this season really goes poorly, and by that I mean only 3-4 wins with some blowout losses and losses to bad teams, then I could see McNabb going elsewhere. But if we show improvement and are competitive in our games I think that he stays for sure. Sure, we would prefer an extension now, but with the labor uncertainty it doesn't make sense for either side to sign a deal.
I agree with you on that too Canes. I'm not saying McNabb would stay no matter what, but if we're committed to winning and treat him right and want him I don't see him leaving.
Hail to the Redskins!

Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Redskin in Canada
~~~~~~
~~~~~~
Posts: 10323
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:59 am
Location: Canada

Post by Redskin in Canada »

Wow, I was embarrassed last Sunday too ... and I know that the fan base has a short fuse after the DISASTROUS ERA of Snyder ownership ... I did expect quite a bit of well deserved criticism ranging from righteous indignation to poisonous and vitriolic cathartic statements. The media also needed its doses of venom and revenge against Snyder ...

But ... there is no need to throw the entire season to the garbage bin .... at least yet.

This is a much better TEAM as a whole than last year's. This game was an aberration and the team will bounce back. They will give us a few more good games to cheer for. All that is needed to stop the flow of ridicule and criticism is a win on Sunday ... Is it possible? YES !!! Will it happen ... I think it will.

Watch my Hognostications and I will choose the Skins with conviction.


Hail !!!
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans for over a decade and a half. Stay away from football operations !!!
SkinsJock
08 Champ
08 Champ
Posts: 18385
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: New England

Post by SkinsJock »

I also think McNabb will be here next year unless these guys really do not manage and coach as well as they can

I think that McNabb will want to be a part of what's happening around here and that he knows that Kyle and Mike can make this offense better and will provide him with the players to make it all much better than we have seen


I'm really hoping that Haslett can come up with a much better defensive game plan for this game than we saw last week

I must admit that I don't care as much about the quality of play this week as I normally do - I just think we need a win - even if we are completely outplayed
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
crazyhorse1
ch1
ch1
Posts: 3634
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: virginia beach

Post by crazyhorse1 »

Redskin in Canada wrote:Wow, I was embarrassed last Sunday too ... and I know that the fan base has a short fuse after the DISASTROUS ERA of Snyder ownership ... I did expect quite a bit of well deserved criticism ranging from righteous indignation to poisonous and vitriolic cathartic statements. The media also needed its doses of venom and revenge against Snyder ...

But ... there is no need to throw the entire season to the garbage bin .... at least yet.

This is a much better TEAM as a whole than last year's. This game was an aberration and the team will bounce back. They will give us a few more good games to cheer for. All that is needed to stop the flow of ridicule and criticism is a win on Sunday ... Is it possible? YES !!! Will it happen ... I think it will.

Watch my Hognostications and I will choose the Skins with conviction.


Hail !!!
I think its too early to say this is a better team than last year's. There is no improvement at WR (Galloway is a downgrade from ARE), less depth at RB, and no improvement at G or C, and special teams are weak. True, we are better off on offense as a whole (mostly because of McNabb), but we are much weaker on defense than we were last year. We have been, in fact, pathetic. Two of our linebackers should be DE's and can't cover and are weak tackling in space, and all three down linemen have been no better than journeymen and have been consistently moved backward. Add to this, the incredibly bad play of our DB's in regard to pass coverage, and we have a D that's that's gone from one of the best in the league to one of the worse. Also, there's really nothing that can be said about the coaching of the D that's positive.

As to the effect of Shanny's genius, I don't see anything but negatives. Acquiring McNabb and Williams and a new kicker were no brainers, and everything else has failed to work out. A lot of you are saying that we will improve over the course of the season, and I agree with that, but I also note that the other teams will also improve. I'll be surprized if we win more than six games and not surprized if we win only four.

All bets are off if we shift back to the 4-3. That way, we'll
have a decent season.

Here's a problem no one seems to be mentioning. How are we going to draft the multiple players we need to fix the OL if we also need the draft to find young players who are fit to play the 3-4? Here's a related problem. How will we ever find a way to maximize Orakpo's incredible potential when he's stuck at linebacker in the 3-4? He's as big a waste at LB as Landry was a FS. I won't bother to comment on what's happened to Carter.
q
KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
kazoo
Posts: 10293
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Kazmania

Post by KazooSkinsFan »

crazyhorse1 wrote:I think its too early to say this is a better team than last year's
Fair enough, but a reality check. It's too early to conclude we're not either...
Hail to the Redskins!

Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Wahoo McDaniels
Hog
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:26 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Post by Wahoo McDaniels »

CanesSkins26 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote: Seriously, do you really think McNabb signs with Minnesota? That would be 2 rebuilding processes in 2 yrs, because there's NO WAY Childress stays after Favre retires.

And, while McNabb, survived the Philly winters, I can't see him moving his family to a place where winters are even more harsh! Not buying McNabb to Minny.
McNabb's also a loyal guy. He didn't leave Phillly until they drove him out. I think he's here to stay. Also, some Skins "fans" like to bash on how no player would want to play here, and yet they not only do but most of them actually do want to stay when they could leave. It's more a bash the Skins story then a reality story
I agree with Kazoo, with one caveat. If this season really goes poorly, and by that I mean only 3-4 wins with some blowout losses and losses to bad teams, then I could see McNabb going elsewhere. But if we show improvement and are competitive in our games I think that he stays for sure. Sure, we would prefer an extension now, but with the labor uncertainty it doesn't make sense for either side to sign a deal.
One other point concerning "uprooting his family from Philly"...his family doesn't live in Philly, they live in Phoenix. Besides the fact that the receivers went out there to work at his home in Phoenix, Mike Wilbon (another Chicago kid who apparently doesn't like the cold) lives in Phoenix where he talks about hanging out with Donny.

Also, Childress isn't going anywhere.
User avatar
Bucket
piggie
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:14 pm

Post by Bucket »

Guys, we are 1-2... Not 4-10...

We ahve a chance to be #1 in the div this week.. Let's make the best of it, eh?
2010 Season Prediction : 8-8(4-2)
Snout
Hog
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:37 am
Location: Seoul

Post by Snout »

Wow, reading this thread the mood is pretty bad. I agree with crazyhorse that many fans were foolish in the rush to say "I trust Allen and Shanahan" and to defend everything they did in the off season. I was also skeptical, and I predicted that some things would work out, some things would not. But we have to give it time to turn around.

We all know that, don't we?

Remember the thread where we made predictions about the outcome for the season? I recall that most "realistically" predicted that the Redskins would finish with a losing record, maybe .500. Only a couple of us said 16-0 (I have no regrets about that prediction, by the way).

Now I have not gone back to match up predictions with posters, but how many of you who predicted that the Redskins would finish with a losing record are now despairing because . . . they have a losing record? Maybe you mentally prepared for those losses, but did not prepare emotionally?

I predicted 16-0. I was wrong. Oh well. Maybe we will finish 14-2. I am not worried. Disappointed for sure, but I think that the collective reaction to this loss is an overreaction.

Shanahan is not a magician. McNabb is not a magician. Allen is not a personnel guru (yet). Both on offense and defense we lack the right personnel for the schemes -- that's not going to change overnight, though hopefully the coaches will make a few adjustments to compensate for the glarising weaknesses. At least next season we have a clear idea of exactly what we need to improve, and hopefully Allen and Shanahan can turn their attention to that after we win the Super Bowl.
KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
kazoo
Posts: 10293
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Kazmania

Post by KazooSkinsFan »

Snout wrote:Wow, reading this thread the mood is pretty bad. I agree with crazyhorse that many fans were foolish in the rush to say...
ROTFALMAO

I'm just teasing you my friend because you don't realize this, but you're agreeing with crazyhorse in chastising fans for a "rush" to judgment. crazyhorse declared the new regime a bust immediately after the first day of free agency when we hadn't solved all our problems. No, he didn't even wait for the draft or a single OTA or practice. crazyhorse chastising us for a rush to judgment is hilarious...
Hail to the Redskins!

Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
SkinsJock
08 Champ
08 Champ
Posts: 18385
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: New England

Post by SkinsJock »

Kaz is right - I will add that most here didn't just immediately embrace and think that the new guys were going to come in here and win the NFC East or be instant success stories

speaking for myself, I was originally skeptical that Allen & Shanahan were going to be in charge and be able to remove the failure that is Snyder - after that became a little clearer I started hoping that these guys could get things turned around and headed in the right direction

I think that what they have done has been very good based on how bad we were but I've been really disapointed in the defense and I've always been very concerned about the offensive line - we need to get a lot more young players on board and that cannot happen in the time we've had

not many here (if any) have openly endorsed this regime and we still have questions but crazyhorse has had an agenda against these guys since the day the hirings were announced and is only looking at all the bad things that have happened
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
User avatar
1niksder
**********
**********
Posts: 16741
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
Contact:

Post by 1niksder »

SkinsJock wrote: not many here (if any) have openly endorsed this regime and we still have questions but crazyhorse has had an agenda against these guys since the day the hirings were announced and is only looking at all the bad things that have happened
crazyhorse is being crazyhorse :shock:
Unless Allen and Shanahan win TWO Super Bowls THIS YEAR crazyhorse will have a I told you so thread right after the season ends.
..__..
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....

If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off
Redskin in Canada
~~~~~~
~~~~~~
Posts: 10323
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:59 am
Location: Canada

Post by Redskin in Canada »

Redskin in Canada wrote:... This game was an aberration and the team will bounce back. They will give us a few more good games to cheer for. All that is needed to stop the flow of ridicule and criticism is a win on Sunday ... Is it possible? YES !!! Will it happen ... I think it will.

Watch my Hognostications and I will choose the Skins with conviction.


Hail !!!
This man is not only talented. He is a DARN GENIUS. :lol:

I think he should win the Hognostications this week. :idea:
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans for over a decade and a half. Stay away from football operations !!!
Countertrey
the 'mudge
the 'mudge
Posts: 16632
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Post by Countertrey »

Redskin in Canada wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:... This game was an aberration and the team will bounce back. They will give us a few more good games to cheer for. All that is needed to stop the flow of ridicule and criticism is a win on Sunday ... Is it possible? YES !!! Will it happen ... I think it will.

Watch my Hognostications and I will choose the Skins with conviction.


Hail !!!
This man is not only talented. He is a DARN GENIUS. :lol:

I think he should win the Hognostications this week. :idea:
This is frightening... 8-[

What next? Blue chunks of sky falling into my front yard?
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
DarthMonk
DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Posts: 7047
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:58 pm

Post by DarthMonk »

Usually when I see crazyhorse1 post I see subsequent posts bashing him for being illoical, etc. It seems to me he is logical and right more often than not.

This is right after the Ram loss in response to the usual ridicule.

DarthMonk
crazyhorse1 wrote:I think its too early to say this is a better team than last year's. There is no improvement at WR (Galloway is a downgrade from ARE), less depth at RB, and no improvement at G or C, and special teams are weak. True, we are better off on offense as a whole (mostly because of McNabb), but we are much weaker on defense than we were last year. We have been, in fact, pathetic. Two of our linebackers should be DE's and can't cover and are weak tackling in space, and all three down linemen have been no better than journeymen and have been consistently moved backward. Add to this, the incredibly bad play of our DB's in regard to pass coverage, and we have a D that's that's gone from one of the best in the league to one of the worse. Also, there's really nothing that can be said about the coaching of the D that's positive.

As to the effect of Shanny's genius, I don't see anything but negatives. Acquiring McNabb and Williams and a new kicker were no brainers, and everything else has failed to work out. A lot of you are saying that we will improve over the course of the season, and I agree with that, but I also note that the other teams will also improve. I'll be surprized if we win more than six games and not surprized if we win only four.

All bets are off if we shift back to the 4-3. That way, we'll
have a decent season.

Here's a problem no one seems to be mentioning. How are we going to draft the multiple players we need to fix the OL if we also need the draft to find young players who are fit to play the 3-4? Here's a related problem. How will we ever find a way to maximize Orakpo's incredible potential when he's stuck at linebacker in the 3-4? He's as big a waste at LB as Landry was a FS. I won't bother to comment on what's happened to Carter.
Hog Bowl III, V, X Champion (2011, 2013, 2018)

Hognostication Champion (2011, 2013, 2016)

Hognostibowl XII Champion (2017, 2018)


Scalp 'em, Swamp 'em,
We will take 'em big score!
Read 'em, Weep 'em Touchdown,
We want heap more!
KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
kazoo
Posts: 10293
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Kazmania

Post by KazooSkinsFan »

DarthMonk wrote:Usually when I see crazyhorse1 post I see subsequent posts bashing him for being illoical, etc. It seems to me he is logical and right more often than not.

This is right after the Ram loss in response to the usual ridicule.

DarthMonk
crazyhorse1 wrote:I think its too early to say this is a better team than last year's. There is no improvement at WR (Galloway is a downgrade from ARE), less depth at RB, and no improvement at G or C, and special teams are weak. True, we are better off on offense as a whole (mostly because of McNabb), but we are much weaker on defense than we were last year. We have been, in fact, pathetic. Two of our linebackers should be DE's and can't cover and are weak tackling in space, and all three down linemen have been no better than journeymen and have been consistently moved backward. Add to this, the incredibly bad play of our DB's in regard to pass coverage, and we have a D that's that's gone from one of the best in the league to one of the worse. Also, there's really nothing that can be said about the coaching of the D that's positive.

As to the effect of Shanny's genius, I don't see anything but negatives. Acquiring McNabb and Williams and a new kicker were no brainers, and everything else has failed to work out. A lot of you are saying that we will improve over the course of the season, and I agree with that, but I also note that the other teams will also improve. I'll be surprized if we win more than six games and not surprized if we win only four.

All bets are off if we shift back to the 4-3. That way, we'll
have a decent season.

Here's a problem no one seems to be mentioning. How are we going to draft the multiple players we need to fix the OL if we also need the draft to find young players who are fit to play the 3-4? Here's a related problem. How will we ever find a way to maximize Orakpo's incredible potential when he's stuck at linebacker in the 3-4? He's as big a waste at LB as Landry was a FS. I won't bother to comment on what's happened to Carter.
What about when he....seriously.....declared the new regime a bust on the....seriously.....first day of free agency? Was that logical?
Hail to the Redskins!

Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
kazoo
Posts: 10293
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Kazmania

Post by KazooSkinsFan »

DarthMonk wrote:Usually when I see crazyhorse1 post I see subsequent posts bashing him for being illoical, etc. It seems to me he is logical and right more often than not
I didn't say he was never right, I mocked the rush to judgment comment. If you are reading his posts and you're not seeing that, you're not reading his posts. Sorry. And his endless rush to judgment does in fact reduce his accuracy. But wrong all the time? I agree, he's not.
Hail to the Redskins!

Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Irn-Bru
FanFromAnnapolis
FanFromAnnapolis
Posts: 12025
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:01 pm
Location: on the bandwagon
Contact:

Post by Irn-Bru »

There's a lot in ch's post that is good analysis, but I don't think I agree with the bottom line. Although we won six games this year (and thus only two more than '09), we fielded a much more competitive team.

I think this can be demonstrated by looking at a simple metric: close games and their results. In general few NFL teams will have many close games in their season with only a one or two losses in them. It's much more common for teams to get near .500 in close contests, because in reality those close games are a bit of a crap shoot.

So take a look at 2010, in which ten of our our games were decided by four points of less. We ended up 4-6 in those games, but would it really have been "surprising" if we ended up 5-5 or 6-4 instead? I don't think it's too difficult to imagine, and if we had finished like that in close contests, our overall record would have been 8-8 rather than 6-10.

Now, do the same exercise with Zorn's team. Take a look at our 2009 results and try to imagine us getting from 4-12 to 8-8. We were 2-5 in games decided by four points or less. To get to 8-8 by the shortest route possible (i.e., by converting the close games in our favor), the Skins would have to have gone 6-1 just to get to a decent season.

In other words, we'd have to have gotten really lucky in Zorn's second year to hit 8-8, while only a little more luck in Shanahan's first season would have gotten us there.

Granted, it's a simple and therefore crude way to measure success. However, I think it gives a little bit more context to our 6-10 season, in which I think we were more than a mere two games better than the previous year. Just my My 2 cents
SkinsJock
08 Champ
08 Champ
Posts: 18385
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: New England

Post by SkinsJock »

I am not responding to ch1 - his agenda is just flat out negative :roll:
I do respond because of FFA and Kaz and others here who do look at things a bit more objectively


Despite what some here think, I'm not happy about where we are or the prospects for turning things around here in the near future but I do think that we're heading in a much better direction than if we'd continued with Snyder and Cerrato in charge here

we could have had a number of Head Coaches, OCs or DCs here all with their own idea of offense, defense or running an NFL franchise - NONE would have mattered IF we still had dumb & dumber in charge - Gibbs is still a good HC, he just never had a chance with the group that he was given by these 2 idiots

No matter the HC or if we still had #21 & any or even all of the other great players that some here have drooled over the past 5 years - WE"D STILL BE A DISASTER - this franchise is not in disaray because of the coaches or the players - we are in major deep stuff because the franchise has not been assembled from top to bottom with coaches and players that have a prayer of being able to both work together and more importantly make each other better

Sean Taylor would have wasted away here OR been traded away


Hopefully these 2 guys, Shanahan and Allen will continue the huge project of finding players and coaches that can make this be a successful franchise again DESPITE the damage done before they arrived

If nothing else the arrival of Shanahan & Allen saw the departure of Snyder and Cerrato's ABSOLUTELY futile attempts at owning and managing an NFL franchise
No matter if they make it work here or not - we at least are a lot better off without dumb and dumber at the helm

we have nowhere to go but up and I would not be surprised to see a very small number of players on this roster in 2011 that were here in 2009



Thankfully, we have Shanahan and Allen in charge here now because we are approaching another major shake-up of our roster and hopefully we end up being one of the youngest group of players in the NFL - especially if this becomes an 18 game season



so .... we ended up winning 6 games - the effort we all saw was not too bad and I think we'll see more improvement in the future - it's a daunting task
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
DarthMonk
DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Posts: 7047
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:58 pm

Post by DarthMonk »

All-in-all some thoughtful responses. I think crazyhorse1 calls like he sees it, steps out on limbs, and backs up his points with thoughtful analysis. He's not always right but who is? I have found that he is jumped on as often (or more so) as he does the jumpiing. I find most reaction to him to be "reactionary."

Anyway, we are certainly in better hands than we were a year ago. I only hope we can show patience as an organization and not fall for the "we're close" aphrodisiac. When we are finally close we'll know it. We'll be playing a playoff game in the 2nd round.

DarthMonk
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:Usually when I see crazyhorse1 post I see subsequent posts bashing him for being illoical, etc. It seems to me he is logical and right more often than not.

This is right after the Ram loss in response to the usual ridicule.

DarthMonk
crazyhorse1 wrote:I think its too early to say this is a better team than last year's. There is no improvement at WR (Galloway is a downgrade from ARE), less depth at RB, and no improvement at G or C, and special teams are weak. True, we are better off on offense as a whole (mostly because of McNabb), but we are much weaker on defense than we were last year. We have been, in fact, pathetic. Two of our linebackers should be DE's and can't cover and are weak tackling in space, and all three down linemen have been no better than journeymen and have been consistently moved backward. Add to this, the incredibly bad play of our DB's in regard to pass coverage, and we have a D that's that's gone from one of the best in the league to one of the worse. Also, there's really nothing that can be said about the coaching of the D that's positive.

As to the effect of Shanny's genius, I don't see anything but negatives. Acquiring McNabb and Williams and a new kicker were no brainers, and everything else has failed to work out. A lot of you are saying that we will improve over the course of the season, and I agree with that, but I also note that the other teams will also improve. I'll be surprized if we win more than six games and not surprized if we win only four.

All bets are off if we shift back to the 4-3. That way, we'll
have a decent season.

Here's a problem no one seems to be mentioning. How are we going to draft the multiple players we need to fix the OL if we also need the draft to find young players who are fit to play the 3-4? Here's a related problem. How will we ever find a way to maximize Orakpo's incredible potential when he's stuck at linebacker in the 3-4? He's as big a waste at LB as Landry was a FS. I won't bother to comment on what's happened to Carter.
What about when he....seriously.....declared the new regime a bust on the....seriously.....first day of free agency? Was that logical?
Hog Bowl III, V, X Champion (2011, 2013, 2018)

Hognostication Champion (2011, 2013, 2016)

Hognostibowl XII Champion (2017, 2018)


Scalp 'em, Swamp 'em,
We will take 'em big score!
Read 'em, Weep 'em Touchdown,
We want heap more!
Post Reply