The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

A flexible lineman, Williams displays a decent initial kick-step off the ball and does a nice job initially remaining balanced toward the corner. But he isn't fluid enough to hold his own on the left side at the next level. At times, he looks top-heavy, lacking the type of range and athleticism to consistently reach the edge against speed rushers. Does a good job dropping his pad-level on contact and extending his arms into blocks. Lacking ideal power on his punch, he consistently takes the brunt of the bull-rush. Struggles to stay on blocks at the point of attack. Has a tendency to overextend in space and will stop moving his feet, allowing opposing lineman to quickly sidestep his block and get after the quarterback. Showcases the ability to cleanly redirect in pass protection and has good lateral mobility when asked to quickly slide inside on the counter move. Looks much more comfortable dropping his pad level on contact and anchoring when asked to mirror in space. Exhibiting good body control in the run game, Williams does a great job of turning and sealing opposing linemen away from the ball on bootlegs outside the pocket. He displays an above-average pop on contact, but he struggles to consistently stay on blocks through the play. He really seemed to struggle making the transition to the left side at Oklahoma this season. Looks like a right-side player only. Based on his game tape from this year, he's not a potential starter at the next level.

frankcal20 wrote:We may or may not but I love the idea that it's an option. He's a bit of a cancer.

Manchester_Redskin wrote:The National Football Post scouting report says this about him

A flexible lineman, Williams displays a decent initial kick-step off the ball and does a nice job initially remaining balanced toward the corner. But he isn't fluid enough to hold his own on the left side at the next level. At times, he looks top-heavy, lacking the type of range and athleticism to consistently reach the edge against speed rushers. Does a good job dropping his pad-level on contact and extending his arms into blocks. Lacking ideal power on his punch, he consistently takes the brunt of the bull-rush. Struggles to stay on blocks at the point of attack. Has a tendency to overextend in space and will stop moving his feet, allowing opposing lineman to quickly sidestep his block and get after the quarterback. Showcases the ability to cleanly redirect in pass protection and has good lateral mobility when asked to quickly slide inside on the counter move. Looks much more comfortable dropping his pad level on contact and anchoring when asked to mirror in space. Exhibiting good body control in the run game, Williams does a great job of turning and sealing opposing linemen away from the ball on bootlegs outside the pocket. He displays an above-average pop on contact, but he struggles to consistently stay on blocks through the play. He really seemed to struggle making the transition to the left side at Oklahoma this season. Looks like a right-side player only. Based on his game tape from this year, he's not a potential starter at the next level.

Dont think I've seen him play, that scouting report dosnt say he would make a LT though.

having said that, if he's good enough for our Coach then thats all that matters

The Hogster wrote:

Manchester_Redskin wrote:The National Football Post scouting report says this about him

A flexible lineman, Williams displays a decent initial kick-step off the ball and does a nice job initially remaining balanced toward the corner. But he isn't fluid enough to hold his own on the left side at the next level. At times, he looks top-heavy, lacking the type of range and athleticism to consistently reach the edge against speed rushers. Does a good job dropping his pad-level on contact and extending his arms into blocks. Lacking ideal power on his punch, he consistently takes the brunt of the bull-rush. Struggles to stay on blocks at the point of attack. Has a tendency to overextend in space and will stop moving his feet, allowing opposing lineman to quickly sidestep his block and get after the quarterback. Showcases the ability to cleanly redirect in pass protection and has good lateral mobility when asked to quickly slide inside on the counter move. Looks much more comfortable dropping his pad level on contact and anchoring when asked to mirror in space. Exhibiting good body control in the run game, Williams does a great job of turning and sealing opposing linemen away from the ball on bootlegs outside the pocket. He displays an above-average pop on contact, but he struggles to consistently stay on blocks through the play. He really seemed to struggle making the transition to the left side at Oklahoma this season. Looks like a right-side player only. Based on his game tape from this year, he's not a potential starter at the next level.

Dont think I've seen him play, that scouting report dosnt say he would make a LT though.

having said that, if he's good enough for our Coach then thats all that matters

To each their own. That's what coaches are paid to do - get the players to reach their full potential. Nonetheless, even as-is, he's better than anything we have at LT. Have you seen Stephon Heyer play?

tribeofjudah wrote:now we can just snooze until what, the 4th round or something???

gt1135 wrote:About Williams, I'm not completely sold on him yet, but I wasn't sold on Okung either. I've been waiting for an O-lineman for 4-5 years and we finally did it though. We got the all-around most athletic guy with talent at the position. This has the Shanahan run blocking scheme written all over it. An athletic guy that pulls well and can get outside to let the running back find that cutback lane. If only Fast Willy is still fast once he hits the second level, then those two COULD be 2 of our best pickups of the offseason.

In reviewing Oklahoma Sooners offensive tackle Trent Williams, I can't help but think of Gosder Cherilus. Cherilus is the progenitor of this series; after seeing his subpar collegiate metrics accurately translate into subpar professional metrics, I decided to start reviewing more NFL draft prospects this way.

Williams is much like Cherilus in that his collegiate metrics leave a lot to be desired.


His first and most important metric weakness is pass blocking. Left tackles get monster contracts and highly publicized motion pictures ("The Blind Side," about Michael Oher, opens Friday) because of their ability to keep pass-rushers from impacting the game via splash plays (e.g., sacks, offensive holding penalties, tipped passes, etc.).

A review I did in Scientific Football 2009 shows the best professional pass-blockers allow four or fewer splash plays in a season. It tiers down from there, with four to six being above average, six to 10 being below average and more than 10 ranking at or near the bottom of the league.


Getty Images
Trent Williams might not be signaling for a lot of first downs on Sundays.
The central premise of the Draft Lab series is that the top-level pro prospects should be able to post metrics against collegiate competition that are above average or better than high-end NFL players at the same position. In the five-game series I broke down on Williams (at Miami, versus Texas, at Kansas, versus Kansas State, at Nebraska), he gave up four splash plays. There were two sack plays and one offensive holding play, so three of the four splash plays were direct impacts and not simply judgement calls.

As bad as four splash plays in five games is, Williams was lucky that total wasn't higher. He was beaten quite badly on an inside spin move in the Nebraska game that was very nearly a hurry or sack, but a quick reaction by OU quarterback Landry Jones saved Williams from splash play No. 5.

That wasn't the only time Williams struggled with an inside pass-rush move. He was pushed completely off his feet with an inside shoulder club move in both the Kansas State and Nebraska games. Miami also ran 10 inside moves against Williams, which is such a high total that one has to figure the Hurricanes saw a similar inside pass-blocking weakness.

Those woes would be enough on their own to consider Williams overhyped, but his run blocking is actually worse than his pass blocking. Williams blocked at the point of attack on a running play 41 times and won the battle 33 times. That equates to an 80.5 percent POA win rate. To put that in perspective, an 80.5 percent POA rate in 2008 would have ranked 28th among NFL left tackles.

Williams' POA win rates are worse than that if the 10 plays on which he had double-team blocking help are removed. He had zero POA losses on those plays, so his POA win rate on one-on-one blocks was 74.2 percent.

Williams also has issues with penalties. There was the aforementioned offensive holding penalty, two false starts, a personal foul/leg whip penalty and a personal foul/late hit.

The late hit might show an additional weakness. It came not long after Nebraska defensive lineman Barry Turner beat Williams on a POA run block. Williams beat Turner on a run block a few plays later and wouldn't stop blocking him until well after the play was over. His extra pushing eventually led to the penalty, and it looked to my scouting eye like he was mad about having been beaten and was trying to send a message to Turner.

That could be a strength in that if a coach can find a way to tap into it, it might be used to his team's advantage. The problem is, though, NFL defenders know when someone reacts poorly to having his buttons pushed, and if they sense that weakness in Williams, he'll have someone trying to goad him in every game he plays.


The Football Scientist lab result: Had I not known before watching video of Williams that he was considered a first-round prospect in many circles, it wouldn't have occurred to me to even consider ranking him that high. He might go in the first round because he is a left tackle, but the metrics say he will be a mediocre pro player, and that stamps him with the TFS overhyped label.

KC Joyner, aka The Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN Insider. His Countdown Daily by IBM weekly video matchups can be found every Tuesday here. He also can be found on Twitter (@kcjoynertfs) and at his Web site.

brad7686 wrote:I can see why they did it, I just think they may pay for gambling on improving his pass protection. And that's a big gamble with a number 4 pick

The Hogster wrote:The Redskins were not the only team who had Williams over Okung. Let's not get caught up in the mock draft hype and believe we know more than Shanahan. He drafted Ryan Clady who became a pro bowl player. I think they know what they see on film based on what they want to do. Film is not television by the way.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:The Redskins were not the only team who had Williams over Okung. Let's not get caught up in the mock draft hype and believe we know more than Shanahan. He drafted Ryan Clady who became a pro bowl player. I think they know what they see on film based on what they want to do. Film is not television by the way.

Shanahan's draft success is mixed, at best.

brad7686 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:The Redskins were not the only team who had Williams over Okung. Let's not get caught up in the mock draft hype and believe we know more than Shanahan. He drafted Ryan Clady who became a pro bowl player. I think they know what they see on film based on what they want to do. Film is not television by the way.

Shanahan's draft success is mixed, at best. It's not a bad pick by any means. Just seams like Okung is more of a sure thing, especially with regard to playing on the left side of the line.

(cough) Maurice Clarett (cough)

The Hogster wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:The Redskins were not the only team who had Williams over Okung. Let's not get caught up in the mock draft hype and believe we know more than Shanahan. He drafted Ryan Clady who became a pro bowl player. I think they know what they see on film based on what they want to do. Film is not television by the way.

Shanahan's draft success is mixed, at best. It's not a bad pick by any means. Just seams like Okung is more of a sure thing, especially with regard to playing on the left side of the line.

(cough) Maurice Clarett (cough)

You're reaching for something to whine about. Cough, Brandon Marshall, Jay Cutler, Ryan Clady. Clarrett was a 3rd round pick. This was the number 4 overall.

C'mon. You haven't seen this kid play a snap in the NFL and you're already complaining because the mock drafts got hopes up for Okung.

brad7686 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:The Redskins were not the only team who had Williams over Okung. Let's not get caught up in the mock draft hype and believe we know more than Shanahan. He drafted Ryan Clady who became a pro bowl player. I think they know what they see on film based on what they want to do. Film is not television by the way.

Shanahan's draft success is mixed, at best. It's not a bad pick by any means. Just seams like Okung is more of a sure thing, especially with regard to playing on the left side of the line.

(cough) Maurice Clarett (cough)

.
You're reaching for something to whine about. Cough, Brandon Marshall, Jay Cutler, Ryan Clady. Clarrett was a 3rd round pick. This was the number 4 overall.

C'mon. You haven't seen this kid play a snap in the NFL and you're already complaining because the mock drafts got hopes up for Okung.

I'm complaining because I have watched him play. I am not Mike Shanahan, but I know a bad pass blocker when i see one.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Yeah, Trent Williams is such a horrible pass blocker that Sam Bradford went #1 overall after winning a Heismann, throwing for 4,700+ yards, 67.9% comp and 50 touchdowns.

The Hogster wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:The Redskins were not the only team who had Williams over Okung. Let's not get caught up in the mock draft hype and believe we know more than Shanahan. He drafted Ryan Clady who became a pro bowl player. I think they know what they see on film based on what they want to do. Film is not television by the way.

Shanahan's draft success is mixed, at best. It's not a bad pick by any means. Just seams like Okung is more of a sure thing, especially with regard to playing on the left side of the line.

(cough) Maurice Clarett (cough)

.
You're reaching for something to whine about. Cough, Brandon Marshall, Jay Cutler, Ryan Clady. Clarrett was a 3rd round pick. This was the number 4 overall.

C'mon. You haven't seen this kid play a snap in the NFL and you're already complaining because the mock drafts got hopes up for Okung.

I'm complaining because I have watched him play. I am not Mike Shanahan, but I know a bad pass blocker when i see one.

Yeah, you know but Shanahan doesn't. Thanks Brad. I'm sure the other half of the NFL GM's who had Williams ahead of Okung will call you next time for your insight

brad7686 wrote:I can go back and forth with you people all night, it would accomplish nothing. Just know this. Mike Shanahan also knows this.

This kid is an UPSIDE PICK. He DID NOT play well in college, at least from a pass blocking perspective. THE TEAM KNOWS THAT. They are gambling on his athletic upside, hoping they can work on his footwork and hand placement. It IS a gamble and is not AT ALL a sure thing. The team is aware of that.

The senior closed out his career with a string of 39 starting assignments, allowing just two assisted sacks during his final two seasons. His 230 knockdown blocks and 22 touchdown resulting blocks were the most by any active Big Twelve Conference offensive lineman since the start of the 2008 season.