The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

jeremyroyce wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Look, what he has done to the Steelers franchise and now what they have to deal with because of his poor judgement.

You mean won them two Super Bowls? Again, unless he is convicted of something there is ZERO chance of the Steelers letting him go. The idea that teams really care about this crap with good players is way overblown. Ray Lewis was accused of murder and Leonard Little actually killed someone and both of them played in the NFL after that. Stallworth killed someone not even a year ago and he's already signed with the Ravens. No team is going to release a star player over an unsubstantiated accusation. This type of stuff happens all the time to pro athletes, it's just a bigger story because Big Ben is a high profile athlete.

I get that he won 2 superbowls. But at this point that means nothing. It was one thing that he put not only himself and the whole team in the situation the first time, now you have a second situation and that's a problem. Whether he is guilty or not he has put this team, and his teammates in a bad situation. I'm not talking about Ray Lewis, Leonard Little or Donte Stallworth. This thread was about Ben Roethlisberger.

Whether he's guilty or not? If he's NOT GUILTY in two accusations, then that means he's not done anything wrong.

I get that he shouldn't but himself in these situations, but he's allowed to live. Yes, he's under the careful watch of the paparazzi, but he's just a guy. These football players are allowed to live.

They make mistakes such as Chad Rinehart. They go to clubs like Big Ben (it could be worse, he could have been another PacMan). To fault them for acting like normal people and making poor judgments with a double standard is ludicrous.

Should he go to Steelers facilities, to church, to home, and no where else? Cut the dude some slack.


And to note, this morning there have been reports that he admitted sexual contact. For Christ's sake, he was at a club in the VIP. WTF do you expect that would happen in a VIP room of a club? Bible study? And as of the latest news, still no charges have been brought officially.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. With the first sitution he has to be smart enough not to put himself in a situation like he is in now. Whether he is guilty or not that's not the point. He used poor judgement and quite frankly you don't need to go to a club or bar to have a good time. And because he used poor judgement now he is faced with another situation.

Guilty or innocent is not the point?

It's exactly my point. If he's not done anything wrong in the eyes of the law and the NFL, then where's the problem? And to this point, no one has taken action.

The American way is to sue someone, as the 2008 rape case that doesn't have enough evidence to even have the law enforcement officials pursue it well illustrates. It's a well known fact that it's easier to get $$$ out of a civil suit than a conviction in a criminal trial. And a lawsuit that has Ben pay out STILL doesn't prove anything in a court of law.

And who are you to dictate where an individual can go to have a good time? You don't have to, but since hte club/bar scene is pretty popular, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say a lot of people DO actually have a good time at a bar or club. I've been known to enjoy a time or two at one myself.

I realize I'm in the minority. I will also admit it's not the safest choice for Ben to make, but he's allowed to live and I support that. Until he's convicted of criminal behavior, I will continue to support him. There's nothing more for me to say, so I will leave this thread alone from here on out.

As far as I'm concerned, Ben's decisions leave a lot to be desired and I could care a less what society or fans think about athletes frequenting and enjoying strip joints and clubs of questionable activities - if the NFL decides that Roethlisbergeer has behaved in a manner that is contrary to the NFL's 'Code of Conduct' that is all I'm really interested in - it seems to me that Roethlisberger thinks that this sort of behaviour is acceptable - I hope the Rooney family (and the Steelers) show him how they feel about him abusing his position on their team

it does not matter one bit to me if he is guilty (or innocent) of his actions according to the legal system - if he thinks that he's entitled to behave in a manner that is contrary to the NFL's Code of Conduct, then he should be punished by Goodell and the Steelers

Roethlisberger does have a right to choose to do things that he wants to do - BUT, he also has an obligation to abide by the NFL's Code of Conduct and he obviously (to me, anyway) needs to learn that

SkinsJock wrote:As far as I'm concerned, Ben's decisions leave a lot to be desired and I could care a less what society or fans think about athletes frequenting and enjoying strip joints and clubs of questionable activities - if the NFL decides that Roethlisbergeer has behaved in a manner that is contrary to the NFL's 'Code of Conduct' that is all I'm really interested in - it seems to me that Roethlisberger thinks that this sort of behaviour is acceptable - I hope the Rooney family (and the Steelers) show him how they feel about him abusing his position on their team

it does not matter one bit to me if he is guilty (or innocent) of his actions according to the legal system - if he thinks that he's entitled to behave in a manner that is contrary to the NFL's Code of Conduct, then he should be punished by Goodell and the Steelers

Roethlisberger does have a right to choose to do things that he wants to do - BUT, he also has an obligation to abide by the NFL's Code of Conduct and he obviously (to me, anyway) needs to learn that

I agree to that. But as of the present, the NFL code of conduect hasn't been compromised. The lynch mob is formed before an offense has been proven.

Well Vet, you know what they say my friend.. guilty until proven innocent.

langleyparkjoe wrote:Well Vet, you know what they say my friend.. guilty until proven innocent.

Maybe you've been brainwashed to think that way, but I still believe in the opposite.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Look, what he has done to the Steelers franchise and now what they have to deal with because of his poor judgement.

You mean won them two Super Bowls? Again, unless he is convicted of something there is ZERO chance of the Steelers letting him go. The idea that teams really care about this crap with good players is way overblown. Ray Lewis was accused of murder and Leonard Little actually killed someone and both of them played in the NFL after that. Stallworth killed someone not even a year ago and he's already signed with the Ravens. No team is going to release a star player over an unsubstantiated accusation. This type of stuff happens all the time to pro athletes, it's just a bigger story because Big Ben is a high profile athlete.

I get that he won 2 superbowls. But at this point that means nothing. It was one thing that he put not only himself and the whole team in the situation the first time, now you have a second situation and that's a problem. Whether he is guilty or not he has put this team, and his teammates in a bad situation. I'm not talking about Ray Lewis, Leonard Little or Donte Stallworth. This thread was about Ben Roethlisberger.

Whether he's guilty or not? If he's NOT GUILTY in two accusations, then that means he's not done anything wrong.

I get that he shouldn't but himself in these situations, but he's allowed to live. Yes, he's under the careful watch of the paparazzi, but he's just a guy. These football players are allowed to live.

They make mistakes such as Chad Rinehart. They go to clubs like Big Ben (it could be worse, he could have been another PacMan). To fault them for acting like normal people and making poor judgments with a double standard is ludicrous.

Should he go to Steelers facilities, to church, to home, and no where else? Cut the dude some slack.


And to note, this morning there have been reports that he admitted sexual contact. For Christ's sake, he was at a club in the VIP. WTF do you expect that would happen in a VIP room of a club? Bible study? And as of the latest news, still no charges have been brought officially.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. With the first sitution he has to be smart enough not to put himself in a situation like he is in now. Whether he is guilty or not that's not the point. He used poor judgement and quite frankly you don't need to go to a club or bar to have a good time. And because he used poor judgement now he is faced with another situation.

Guilty or innocent is not the point?

It's exactly my point. If he's not done anything wrong in the eyes of the law and the NFL, then where's the problem? And to this point, no one has taken action.

The American way is to sue someone, as the 2008 rape case that doesn't have enough evidence to even have the law enforcement officials pursue it well illustrates. It's a well known fact that it's easier to get $$$ out of a civil suit than a conviction in a criminal trial. And a lawsuit that has Ben pay out STILL doesn't prove anything in a court of law.

And who are you to dictate where an individual can go to have a good time? You don't have to, but since hte club/bar scene is pretty popular, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say a lot of people DO actually have a good time at a bar or club. I've been known to enjoy a time or two at one myself.

I realize I'm in the minority. I will also admit it's not the safest choice for Ben to make, but he's allowed to live and I support that. Until he's convicted of criminal behavior, I will continue to support him. There's nothing more for me to say, so I will leave this thread alone from here on out.

Innocent or quilty is not the point. The point is that before he faced the newest accusations he was already being accused of sexual assult. He has to be smart enough to ask himself hey if I do this can this get me in further trouble. With him being a superstar athelete his employer is paying him a ton of money he has an obligation to his employer to conduct himself in a cetain manner. Now his employer is now having to deal with his drama. He already admitted to having sexual contact, not sexual intercourse but sexual contact. Hmm if I go into a bathroom and I do this, gee I wonder what this could do to me. Secondly what does it say about the place when he has to go in with two off duty officers.

I can accuse someone of being a pedophile. What does that actually mean? Without evidence (such as the first Ben CIVIL suit that WON'T go criminal due to lack of evidence supporting the accusation), it means SQUAT. Me accusing someone without evidence means NOTHING. As does this first accusation for Ben. NOTHING. And that's my point.

It's already agreed upon that his judgment is suspect. Move past it.

some of us think his judgement is more than suspect

Personally, I really hope that his conduct will result in something appropriate from both the NFL and the Steelers

SkinsJock wrote:some of us think his judgement is more than suspect

Personally, I really hope that his conduct will result in something appropriate from both the NFL and the Steelers

The league nor the team can ban or fine him for going out to a bar. IF he is convicted, then they can do something.

The only thing the Steelers can do if he is not convicted is trade him or cut him. That's it. He is not anymore guilty of anything than the other players that went to that bar that night.

The NFL has a 'little' thing called the Code of Conduct - this has nothing to do with the legal system or a player's right to do or go wherever he wants - this is about the player conducting himself in a manner that is not harmful to the NFL's image

For Roethlisberger, who has not exactly made very good personal decisions, to think that it is OK to not only go to a club like this but to also admit to having sexual contact is a little troubling and might get him in trouble with the NFL (and the Steelers) whether there are charges or not

this issue is not just about being charged with a crime. IMO, that will seal his fate in Pittsburgh - this is about his conduct & if the NFL thinks that it is appropriate, is all

all I hope is that this selfish, stupid player, gets what he deserves for making another stupid decision, nothing more

Only days after Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said that he expects quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to attend the team's offseason conditioning program, it turns out that Roethlisberger won't be there.

According to Adam Schefter of ESPN, a decision was made that Roethlisberger should stay away, given the distraction his presence will cause. It's unclear whether Roethlisberger participated in the decision-making process. Though the workouts are voluntary, players cannot be prevented from participating in them.

The Steelers' program began a couple of weeks ago, but for younger players only. Veterans will begin participating on Monday.

And so arises the first tangible distraction from the most recent sexual assault claim made against Roethlisberger. Whether and to what extent the distractions will continue depends on whether he is ultimately charged with a crime.

Link

Attorney Investigated Big Ben For Vegas Incident


http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic ... nt/2416479

Harry Manion, a partner at Boston law firm ey Manion Jones, guested on WEEI-AM’s The Dennis and Callahan Morning Show in Boston this morning and said he was hired to investigate an incident involving Ben Roethlisberger six months ago that was “absolutely identical” to the recent sexual assault allegation by a Georgia woman.


Manion:

“Six months ago I was hired by a client of mine, a good friend, to investigate allegations against Ben Roethlisberger in a Las Vegas nightclub that were absolutely identical to this Georgia girl’s story. The outcome was that the young woman did not want to proceed and we never took any action. There is a history here, and I can’t say any further, that is super troubled. Wow.”

I can’t imagine Manion would bring this up unless his investigation netted some evidence that Roethlisberger may have done something inappropriate and/or illegal.

Also makes you wonder why the police weren’t notified - if the incident was “identical” to the Georgia situation. Reason I say that is I believe had the woman not dropped her claim against Roethlisberger March 17, I think the D.A. in the Georgia case would’ve brought charges against the Pittsburgh quarterback.

This news also makes you wonder if NFL security has any knowledge of other, similar incidents involving Roethlisberger and if so, could that play a role in any league or team discipline that comes down.

UPDATE (11:14a ET): More from Manion:

Manion said this latest incident should be the wakeup call that finally gets Roethlisberger to clean up his act. “Unless he’s totally brain dead — and we don’t know — he would be scared,” Manion said. “Because he has really walked a perilous line here. There’s a whole litany here, not only my experience, I have connected with several other people that have experience. And you know, there’s only so far that he said/she said will get you. There’s only so far that paying hush money will get you, if hush money is paid. And there’s only so far that, ‘Gee, we’re celebrities, we have a target on our back,’ will get you. When you see this much smoke, month after month and continuously …”

Added Manion: “It’s the scene that he’s gotten himself caught up with, and the belief that he can walk, and so far, so good. But it’s hurting him. He’s hurt. He has been damaged. And the next one, the wrath of God’s going to come down on him, if there is a next one.”

There seems to be more and more of a chance that Roethlisberger’s problem might not be the “next one”, but something that could possibly already be out there.



If this is to be true then Big Ben is done with the Steelers. I will say this he has not learned and you can bet that there will be more woman that will come out with the same thing.

IF there was 'nothing to this charge' he would not have been asked to have a "chat" with Goodell

Ben is on 'notice' and if anything, even something very minor, happens he will not be a Steeler and Goodell will go ballistic, guranteed

Roethlisberger is just a stupid, dumb athlete

and no criminal charges as of yet...so he's innocent.

you're exactly right Vet - he's innocent and really stupid - he deserves whatever the NFL and the Steelers decide to do to him, because while he's innocent of criminal charges he is guilty of bad judgement and he may have violated the NFL's code of conduct policy

I think he's going to be suspended a few games just because Goodell has set the standard that anyone who meets with him gets suspended. I think there is a lot of pressure on this thing racially, and whether goodell wants to or not, he will give him a game or two.

brad7686 wrote:I think he's going to be suspended a few games just because Goodell has set the standard that anyone who meets with him gets suspended. I think there is a lot of pressure on this thing racially, and whether goodell wants to or not, he will give him a game or two.

Who else has been suspended without a criminal conviction?

VetSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:I think he's going to be suspended a few games just because Goodell has set the standard that anyone who meets with him gets suspended. I think there is a lot of pressure on this thing racially, and whether goodell wants to or not, he will give him a game or two.

Who else has been suspended without a criminal conviction?

The policy does not require a conviction. It's not that different from the Substance Abuse policy, which includes multiple suspensions for alcohol...a legal drug. In many drug suspensions there is not even a police investigation involved in the case...

Big Ben's going to get his punishment directly from the Steeler's.

It's like when the principal said to you, "I'm not going to punish you here, because it sounds like you're going to get plenty when you get home."

Countertrey wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:I think he's going to be suspended a few games just because Goodell has set the standard that anyone who meets with him gets suspended. I think there is a lot of pressure on this thing racially, and whether goodell wants to or not, he will give him a game or two.

Who else has been suspended without a criminal conviction?

The policy does not require a conviction. It's not that different from the Substance Abuse policy, which includes multiple suspensions for alcohol...a legal drug. In many drug suspensions there is not even a police investigation involved in the case...

The legal drug used while committing an illegal act, though, right? You don't get suspended for having 3 beers in your living room on a Saturday nite.

And the drug suspension, there is a clear cut line that has been crossed and can be proven.

I guess what I'm asking is that people keep quoting this "NFL Conduct Policy" but who really knows what's in it and what Ben will be punished for that has broken this policy.

I am just glad that Ben is being given a hard time by the NFL and the Steelers for thinking that it's OK to go to a place like he and the others went to and to act the way he did - NFL players are very aware of how they have to behave and live their lives - if you want to be a part of the NFL then you are basucally agreeing to not do things or act in a manner that might embarass the NFL or the Franchise -

I am kind of surprised that some here think that the players are entitled to do whatever they want as long as they do not do anything illegal or anything that hurts someone - EVERYONE that is a part of the NFL is expected to not do ANYTHING that would possibly harm the NFL's image

EVERYONE understands that they need to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner and Roethlisberger OBVIOUSLY did not - he should be punished and it sounds like he will be


the guy is only guilty of being stupid but he just does not seem to get it

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm not amazed about what Ben did. By my non-attention to it, I was HOPING it was kinda obvious. As I previously stated, I don't give a rats ass what Ben does. He screws his career up, poor him. Poor Pit.

And I interpreted the tone as "he got away with one, now he's at it again." Ben wasn't convicted of anything in Vegas was he? My opinion of the Vegas matter is that the whore didn't get what she wanted out of the situation, so she tried to get some cash outa him. Typical. And it could possibly be the same scenario here. <Note: the following is my specuation>It's not like the clubs are fillled with doctors and lawyers he goes to, I'm sure. I'm sure he goes where all the hot young thangs are. And some of those places can be a golddigger's convention.

Is he brilliant for putting himself in these sitautions? I've never claimed he was. He should be able to live a semi-normal life (note: no where did I saw private). He still should be able to do what he wants to do within reason.
And until it's proven that he DID, in fact break a law, I'm still going off the ideal of innocent until proven guilty. Call me a dreamer

this is not just about "the law" - this is about a guy with a history of not treating women with respect - both in his own hometown (for years it is now being reported ) and elsewhere - there is no way the NFL or the Steelers are going to let Roethlisberger get away with behaving as he has

now that we know a little more about what happened, I would imagine that a lot of fans are going to understand why some of us have an issue with this low life - well maybe those of us with daughters - and those who don't like to think that there are guys like this with bodyguards who are off duty policemen, aiding and abetting a girl being abused by a 'big' NFL player who should know better

Vet says:

My opinion of the Vegas matter is that the whore didn't get what she wanted out of the situation, so she tried to get some cash outa him. Typical. And it could possibly be the same scenario here.

But, of Ben he says:

And until it's proven that he DID, in fact break a law, I'm still going off the ideal of innocent until proven guilty.

Apparently, innocent until proven guilty only goes one way, then.

Ben is innocent until proven guilty...

but the accusers are just gold digging vermin... is that what you are saying???



I have no idea who is telling the truth... but, I do believe that Ben is an idiot for placing himself in the situation a second time, whether innocent or guilty.

I also know that I will not cast aspersions on the women who have accused him.

To your point trey - I also understand that there are many women who will try to take advantage of guys like Roethlisberger and I also am not in any way condoning what their possible agendas might be

the troubling thing with Ben is that he's apparently got a problem with how he treats women and this is known by a lot of people where he lives and where he grew up

the other part of this incident that bothers me is that the 2 bodyguards would not let the accusers' girl friends go into the hallway where one of the 2 bodyguards took the girl and where Ben came and the alleged incident began before they went into the bathroom - these bodyguards are off duty police officers and you would think they would try and stop anything like this from happening - if your job is to protect Roethlisberger; then why not make sure that he's not alone with anyone that could have an agenda like may have been the case here

the girl friends said they did not see anything because the bodyguards would not let them go and make sure their friend was OK - one of these girls was the first to report the incident to the policeman NOT the accuser

It is also troubling that apparently these guys were encouraging the girls to drink - this is not a good deal for anyone that was in that room with Roethlisberger - he just does not seem to understand that this is not decent behaviour

this is all really troubling and I'll bet the Rooney's are very upset with Roethlisberger right now

Countertrey wrote:Vet says:

My opinion of the Vegas matter is that the whore didn't get what she wanted out of the situation, so she tried to get some cash outa him. Typical. And it could possibly be the same scenario here.

But, of Ben he says:

And until it's proven that he DID, in fact break a law, I'm still going off the ideal of innocent until proven guilty.

Apparently, innocent until proven guilty only goes one way, then.

Ben is innocent until proven guilty...

but the accusers are just gold digging vermin... is that what you are saying???



I have no idea who is telling the truth... but, I do believe that Ben is an idiot for placing himself in the situation a second time, whether innocent or guilty.

I also know that I will not cast aspersions on the women who have accused him.

The woman won't press criminal charges, but pursues an avenue where she could possible gain significantly in a financial context. I'm sorry if there's only one possible thought process that comes to mind for me. Maybe i'm just ignorant, what other rational reasoning could there be? I'll gladly acknowledge that I jumped to conclusions.