The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I'm only basing it off of scout's rankings, etc.

We need 2 tackles eitherway. If you can trade down later in the draft to get another pick in say the early 2nd, you do it. You pick up Williams to be your right tackle. You use your next pick on a Guard or another position of need and if need be, bring in a Vet who will fall on the June 1st cuts. This all isn't going to be fixed in one year. I fully understand that. I expect us to be a little better next year but we are going to be very young. And as they get older, and grow as players, they will get better.

I just can't see the value in a QB with the 4th pick.

Free Agency will greatly effect what we do in the draft. There are some very interesting Free Agents this year and I am very intrigued by them. 1 team to watch is SD. They have 4 free agents which are huge peices of their team. I believe each team gets 2 franchise tags in there is no cap, but that would 2 of these guys as free agents. I could see the Skins as interested in all of them.

Marcus McNeil - 26 y/o pro bowl LT the Skins need.
Darren Sproles - Young homerun threat at RB, KR/PR
Vincent Jackson - Young big 6'4 #1 receiver the Skins lack
Shawne Merriman - Playmaking OLB which would move RAK to DE.

The Chargers cant franchise all these guys, and might not want to franchise any because of the cost. The skins might be all over these guys.

If the SKins signed McNeil and Sproles and drafted another tackle in round 1 as a RT, our line would be VASTLY improved and we would have the HR threat we need out of the backfield.

We should target young Free Agent Olineman; Okung vs. NFC East DE's I'm not sure he's that dominant. Samuels needs to come back.

Per the last report - Samuels coming back might be risking his ability to walk in the future. Not worth it.

I am a Clemson fan and I think Spiller should have won the Heisman but I would not take him with the Fourth pick. We need to get the best OL available when we pick 4th.

The main thing that the new regime should focus on is coaching. Yes we have needs on the OL, FS, RB and I think at LB. I'd use the first pick on Trent Williams from Oklahoma to eventually take over for Heyer. If we can sign Gaither away from Baltimore to replace Samuels.

If we think that we are set with Dock at Guard and we can't get Gaither then I'd go after one of the Pouncey twins from Fla., preferably the Guard. Plug him in where Thomas was.

Either way, you have to fill in the OL first. And you could kill two birds with one stone by drafting OL at #4 and signing a good yound FA. You win those two battles, then you can start looking at RB, FS, LB (to move "Rak" to DE).

skins2357 wrote:Free Agency will greatly effect what we do in the draft. There are some very interesting Free Agents this year and I am very intrigued by them. 1 team to watch is SD. They have 4 free agents which are huge peices of their team. I believe each team gets 2 franchise tags in there is no cap, but that would 2 of these guys as free agents. I could see the Skins as interested in all of them.

Marcus McNeil - 26 y/o pro bowl LT the Skins need.
Darren Sproles - Young homerun threat at RB, KR/PR
Vincent Jackson - Young big 6'4 #1 receiver the Skins lack
Shawne Merriman - Playmaking OLB which would move RAK to DE.

The Chargers cant franchise all these guys, and might not want to franchise any because of the cost. The skins might be all over these guys.

If the SKins signed McNeil and Sproles and drafted another tackle in round 1 as a RT, our line would be VASTLY improved and we would have the HR threat we need out of the backfield.

Please no Sproles. These "rabbits" have an extremely short shelf life nd rarely produce anything worth while after a couple of years in the league (think Chad Morton). You can just as easily draft an undersized burner on day 2 of the draft.

skins2357 wrote:Free Agency will greatly effect what we do in the draft. There are some very interesting Free Agents this year and I am very intrigued by them. 1 team to watch is SD. They have 4 free agents which are huge peices of their team. I believe each team gets 2 franchise tags in there is no cap, but that would 2 of these guys as free agents. I could see the Skins as interested in all of them.

Marcus McNeil - 26 y/o pro bowl LT the Skins need.
Darren Sproles - Young homerun threat at RB, KR/PR
Vincent Jackson - Young big 6'4 #1 receiver the Skins lack
Shawne Merriman - Playmaking OLB which would move RAK to DE.

The Chargers cant franchise all these guys, and might not want to franchise any because of the cost. The skins might be all over these guys.

If the SKins signed McNeil and Sproles and drafted another tackle in round 1 as a RT, our line would be VASTLY improved and we would have the HR threat we need out of the backfield.

Sounds good but Merriman is damaged goods and Sproles would be asking for big money but he's not an every down back due to his size. McNeil signing would be the move. Either him or Gaither from Baltimore and of course draft either Okung or Williams with the #4 pick. I like Williams better because he be back at his natural position where Heyer is now and you'd have either McNeil or Gaither in next to Dock. I would even take it step further and see where one of the Pouncy twins would land. After drafting Williams or Okung and signing McNeil or Gaither, I'd see where the center of the twins would land. If he's available after our needs are met, then I'd sign him to groom for an aging Rabach.

I just can't see the value in a QB with the 4th pick

In what sense? If Claussen, for example, turns out to be as good as Joe Flacco, how would that not be value?

Just based off history alone. The fail rate is much higher for the specialty positions. WR's mainly but similar to QB's especially one's that come into a team without adequate offensive line protection.

frankcal20 wrote:Some think that this is a very weak draft. I don't know that yet because there has not been much evaluation or players declaring. I think that we will see a lot of juniors come out now if there is to be a rookie salary cap though.

I think that with the 4th pick, there will be enough players available that trading down may be a really good idea. There are 3 tackles ranked in the 1st round right now and I'm sure that one or two more will pop up once all the declarations have been made and the players have gone through the drills, etc at the scouting combine. As long as we show that we are flexible in the draft and identify a few players, we'll be successful. Getting stuck on one guy isn't going to do us any good.

I feel like Mike Shanahan used to trade a lot of picks and move around the draft quite a bit. It's going to be fun on draft weekend though.

The only highly potential star at OT in the draft is Okung. The other rated OT's available are ranked in the first two rounds only because it's a weak OT bunch coming out. We should take Okung and a cream of the crop center in the second round. It's unlikely a center will go in the first round--because centers aren't picked in the first round. Beyond that, we should pick up OL's from the FA list. With Jones and Mike Williams on hand, we could end up rebuilding the OL in one year to a respectable level. Such a scheme would enable us to find out about how good Campbell is when protected. I also note that both Kelly and Devin Thomas look like they'll help us. Further, we should give Portis another year. Having this year off will probably help him, as will a new coach.
So what if all of the above fails to work out. If we don't first work on solving our OL problem, nothing will work out. Why draft a Bradford just to get him killed. Sooner or later, we're going to have to come up with an OL that is competitive. It should be now.
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frankcal20 wrote:Just based off history alone. The fail rate is much higher for the specialty positions. WR's mainly but similar to QB's especially one's that come into a team without adequate offensive line protection.

It's not clear how adequate or inadequate the offensive line is going to be by the time the draft rolls around. Samuels and likely free agency are going to go a long way in determining that.

PAPDOG67 wrote:Please no Sproles. These "rabbits" have an extremely short shelf life nd rarely produce anything worth while after a couple of years in the league (think Chad Morton). You can just as easily draft an undersized burner on day 2 of the draft.

I disagree on Sproles. Overall I agree small guys wear down, but some are special. Kansas State rode Darren Sproles and he never broke down. Houston Nutt attatched his job security to Dexter McCluster and Dexter McCluster was simply unstoppable over the second half of the season. Over his final six games, he touched the ball on offense 171 times, for an average of 28.5 time per game, capped off by him single handedly winning the Cotton Bowl for Ole Miss. That dude needs to be on the Redskins.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Just based off history alone. The fail rate is much higher for the specialty positions. WR's mainly but similar to QB's especially one's that come into a team without adequate offensive line protection.

It's not clear how adequate or inadequate the offensive line is going to be by the time the draft rolls around. Samuels and likely free agency are going to go a long way in determining that.

By all accounts I've read, Samuels should be ruled out, even if he wants to come back. He's through-- actually in danger of losing the ability to walk. I correctly predicted that he wouldn't make it through last year (the same with Randy Thomas) and now predict, if he should play, that he won't make it through the preseason. No more gambling on old/injured players. Not fair to them or the team.

So many holes... I know we're going to fall in love with some big name playmakers over the next few months, but the smart thing really is to let other teams fall in love with that pick and trade down while we're on the clock... we could easily end up with 3 more picks if we play our cards right...

Sproles is NOT an every down back and I believe he would get swallowed up in the NFC East. In 5 years, he doesn't even have 2k offensive yards. He's a great change of pace back, but I don't think that he'd succeed here as a feature back. I think this same concept applies to McCluster if he's that small. Being in the NFC East, there's an extra level of toughness needed.

I'm with whoever says no to Bradford.

All I can say is , thank God for Derick Dockery!

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I just can't see the value in a QB with the 4th pick

In what sense? If Claussen, for example, turns out to be as good as Joe Flacco, how would that not be value?

Joe Flacco ain't exactly Joe Montana. Look at his stats this year compared to JC's, who I know you don't think is all that good. Its really close. And one has a much less talented O-line. I would actually hope that Claussen is better than Flacco.

brad7686 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I just can't see the value in a QB with the 4th pick

In what sense? If Claussen, for example, turns out to be as good as Joe Flacco, how would that not be value?

Joe Flacco ain't exactly Joe Montana. Look at his stats this year compared to JC's, who I know you don't think is all that good. Its really close. And one has a much less talented O-line. I would actually hope that Claussen is better than Flacco.

The difference there is that Flacco is only in his second year and JC is in his 5th. For a second year player Flacco is damn good in my opinion. He's also improved across the board from year one to year two. A second year starter with an 88 qb rating, 63 percent completion percentage, 21 td's, and 12 int's is very good.

If Campbell gets re-signed then we trade down. If not, it'll be a QB @ #4.

CanesSkins26 wrote:The difference there is that Flacco is only in his second year and JC is in his 5th.

Flacco is good, but he also plays behind a much better offensive line. Oher, Gaither, Grubbs, Matt Birk. There's two young first round picks and a six time pro bowler in there. Flacco is the 13th ranked QB this year. JC is ranked #15. Just saying.

So whoever said they want a QB better than Flacco with the #4 pick, I would say, right on.

I actually believe we can have our cake and eat it too.


Heres what I propose. We trade down for a late 1st and second round pick.
That would give us two second round picks and a late 1st.

With the late 1st round pick,
Players who might still be available- Only players worthy of a 1st round pick should be chosen. These are the players I see who are good enough and might be available if we aquire late 1st round pick.

Bryan Bulaga*, Iowa , Tackle ,
Height: 6-6. Weight: 312.
Projected 40 Time: 4.92.

Charles Brown, USC , Tackle
Height: 6-6. Weight: 296.
Projected 40 Time: 5.06.

Joseph Barksdale, LSU , Tackle
Height: 6-5. Weight: 315.
Projected 40 Time: 4.98.

Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame QB
Height: 6-3. Weight: 217.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.

Travis Lewis**, Oklahoma , OLB One of the best LB prospects since Lavar
Height: 6-2. Weight: 232.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.

Brandon Spikes, Florida - ILB Why? Absolute playmaker
Height: 6-3. Weight: 244.
Projected 40 Time: 4.65.

Rolando McClain*, Alabama ILB Reminds me of the Niners MLB
Height: 6-4. Weight: 248.
Projected 40 Time: 4.65.

Terrence Cody, Alabama - NT Another mountain next to Al would not hurt
Height: 6-5. Weight: 365.
Projected 40 Time: 5.50.

Gerald McCoy, Oklahoma - NT
Height: 6-4. Weight: 295.
Projected 40 Time: 5.01.

Brian Price, UCLA DT
Height: 6-2. Weight: 300.
Projected 40 Time: 5.05.

Dan Williams, Tennessee DT
Height: 6-3. Weight: 327.
Projected 40 Time: 5.25.

Eric Berry, S, Tennessee
Height: 6-0. Weight: 195.
Projected 40 Time: 4.36.
I can only dream Berry would drop to the late 1st.
If Suh is the most dominant. Then Berry is definately the biggest playmaker. Not since Ed Reed and Sean Taylor have I seen a player like him. Dare I say he may become the best ever? The sky is the limit with Berry.

Taylor Mays, FS/SS, USC
Height: 6-4. Weight: 225.
Projected 40 Time: 4.42.
Supposedly he is the next ST? I dont think he is quite Sean Taylor like. But, he still is a heck of an athlete. I watched him up close and his hips are not as fluid as ST. He cant come out of cuts very well.Nor does he have hands like ST. He also does not make as many big plays as ST did. But he is nevertheless a good player with a lot of potential.

Reshad Jones*, FS/SS, Georgia
Height: 6-2. Weight: 207.
Projected 40 Time: 4.50.
Makes more big plays then Taylor Mays. His stats are better as well.

C.J. Spiller, Clemson RB
Height: 5-11. Weight: 195.
Projected 40 Time: 4.34.


If we do not grab a tackle in the first round? Then I say we draft the two best guards in the second round. Two good guards are better then one good tackle.

Mike Iupati, Idaho G
Height: 6-5. Weight: 330.
Projected 40 Time: 5.25.
Projected Round (2009): 1-2. Absolutley punishes defenders. Trust me he is good. Especially in the run.

Mike Johnson, Alabama G
Height: 6-6. Weight: 305.
Projected 40 Time: 5.20.
Projected Round (2009): 2-3.
He blocked for the Heisman trophy winner, destroyed Floridas number one ranked defense and is playing for a National Championship. Need I say more?

In all honesty I rather us grab a star with a late round first and draft two Massive beastly guards. When can grab our left tackle next year.

It's going to boil down to the evaluations of Shannahan, and Allen, as to what they do with the first pick. Is there a QB prospect that they feel is worth a 4th overall pick ... if so, that's what they'll do. If not, they might try to trade down to get extra picks .. and hope that they might pick up a bargain prospect in the 2nd or 3rd round (McCoy)

Clearly they know what they have with Campbell .. and I can't see them resigning him to anything more than a one year deal ... so if there is not a clamor of teams vying to sign Campbell to a multiyear deal, maybe he's back for 2010.

There are too many variables to consider ... and I don't see a clear winner type like Rivers or Ryan or Rogers type in the QB pool other than Bradford ... but Bradford is a huge risk because of health concerns.

If we could pick up McCoy in the 2nd, then I'd be fine with an o-line pick in the first. I think McCoy is the sleeper in this QB draft pool.

if we pick Bradford and we don't address the O line, then Bradford's NFL career will be short lived.

riggofan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:The difference there is that Flacco is only in his second year and JC is in his 5th.

Flacco is good, but he also plays behind a much better offensive line. Oher, Gaither, Grubbs, Matt Birk. There's two young first round picks and a six time pro bowler in there. Flacco is the 13th ranked QB this year. JC is ranked #15. Just saying.

So whoever said they want a QB better than Flacco with the #4 pick, I would say, right on.

Yep, Grubbs and Oher were both recent draft picks, 2007 and 2008 1st rounders. Birk was a recent free agent. Redskins could have all three of these guys if they wished. Sure am glad we blew that wad on Haynesworth and Hall