The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsFreak wrote:disgruntled (dis⋅grun⋅tled) adjective - displeased and discontented; sulky; peevish: A disgruntled LaVar Arrington is unwilling to let it go.

Let it go, man... just let it go.

Look, I know I am going to get flamed for this and I struggled with posting this. But, I lost a lot of respect for Gibbs, the man, when he went to the Republican Convention and said that electing McCain would be a return to God's word. I have no issues with Republicans or those who have deep personal relationships with God. I do have a problem with the right wing ideology that purports that God wants Republicans in charge so they can push an agenda that only a minority agree with.

I have respect for Gibbs the coach, Gibbs the family man, and am forever grateful for his work with my favorite football team. But his convention speech reminded me that we do not know our sports stars and it really is better that way. Given that, the way Gibbs and Williams treated certain players was wrong. I also think Lavar was wrong to call Gibbs a coward for leaving after dealing with Sean Taylor and his sick grandson. But, personally I no longer look at Gibbs with my burgandy colored glasses and see a man who does no wrong. Just my opinion.

cleg wrote:Look, I know I am going to get flamed for this and I struggled with posting this. But, I lost a lot of respect for Gibbs, the man, when he went to the Republican Convention and said that electing McCain would be a return to God's word.

Its confirmed, Gibbs is a bamma.. I still love the man, but he's officially a bamma

At this point, even if there is some truth to it, who cares?

This is much ado about nothing.

cleg wrote:Look, I know I am going to get flamed for this and I struggled with posting this. But, I lost a lot of respect for Gibbs, the man, when he went to the Republican Convention and said that electing McCain would be a return to God's word. I have no issues with Republicans or those who have deep personal relationships with God. I do have a problem with the right wing ideology that purports that God wants Republicans in charge so they can push an agenda that only a minority agree with.

I have respect for Gibbs the coach, Gibbs the family man, and am forever grateful for his work with my favorite football team. But his convention speech reminded me that we do not know our sports stars and it really is better that way. Given that, the way Gibbs and Williams treated certain players was wrong. I also think Lavar was wrong to call Gibbs a coward for leaving after dealing with Sean Taylor and his sick grandson. But, personally I no longer look at Gibbs with my burgandy colored glasses and see a man who does no wrong. Just my opinion.

Listen, I agree with you, in that I have no affection for the hard core religious right that preaches extreme fundamentalist views and tries to insert those views into politics.

However, those are personal views not associated with football or the situation involving LaVar. Redskin fans have always known that Gibbs was a religious man with a lot of integrity. I don't believe Gibbs' personal or religious views were imposed on the team or LaVar.

I believe that both LaVar and the organization share a level of responsibility for whatever happened. We all face choices in our lives. LaVar has chosen to continue to bash the organization while rarely, if at all, admitting his own responsibilities. While that is his choice, he is trying to start up a sports bar and restaurant in Washington D.C. that incorporates a Redskins theme. Making comments like this about the man that brought 3 championships to the city is an extremely poor PR move and will not garner much respect from those that are grateful for what Gibbs brought to D.C.

Lavar's a moron.

They brought him onto ComcastSportsNet to do pre-game stuff and it doesn't take very long to realize that the guy is powered by a room temperature IQ.

Now before everyone jumps to his defense about him being smart enough to run his own restaurant, I'm sure he's there more for the name recognition and monetary investment than the actual day-to-day operation.

Everyopne keeps saying "I wish we knew what happened" like it's some big secret.

Lavar got injured. Then reaggrivated his injury by trying to come back too soon. Then publicly blamed the coaches for pushing him to come back to soon, then publicly blamed the coaches for not letting him play when he felt he was 100%, then played like crap when they finally did play him. Then agreed with the coaches that maybe he wasn't 100%.

Then he got cut when pretty much everyone knew he wasn't going to be able to stay healthy (linebackers with bad knees usually don't), got picked up by the Giants and big surprise, couldn't stay healthy, and got cut by them too.

In the midst of all of this he blamed Snyder for cheating him out of a signing bonus that wasn't in the contract he signed. A contract mind you that neither he nor his agent apparently read before he signed.

If Snyder really did intend to "cheat" Lavar, going through his contract was a pretty risky way to do it since typically agents and players read their contracts before signing them.

I started to warm back up to Lavar when he showed up on Redskins pre-game, and even began to sport his jersey again on game-days, but now I just wish he'd go away.

Bob 0119 wrote:If Snyder really did intend to "cheat" Lavar, going through his contract was a pretty risky way to do it since typically agents and players read their contracts before signing them.

Yeah, smart players and halfway competant agents read their contracts. But it makes a lot more sense for LaVar to blame Snyder for the contract issue, not his agent, because no one cares about a player whining about his agent not doing their job. It makes Sportscenter when a player whines about an owner "screwing" them out of money.

BTW, where are all the, "Bring back LaVar," now?

VetSkinsFan wrote:BTW, where are all the, "Bring back LaVar," now?

*grabs spoon

I'd take Lavar back before I could stomach more of Gibbs 3.0....

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:BTW, where are all the, "Bring back LaVar," now?

*grabs spoon

I'd take Lavar back before I could stomach more of Gibbs 3.0....

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:BTW, where are all the, "Bring back LaVar," now?

*grabs spoon

I'd take Lavar back before I could stomach more of Gibbs 3.0....

seriously?

There was certainly a lot of stuff behind the scenes that we aren't aware of, but I remember some of it that is being overlooked in this conversation.

One issue is Lindsey, the LB coach, who was an arrogant idiot that eventually got fired after Lavar was released. Another issue was Gregg Williams belief that it was his all powerful system and not the players that made the defense successful. (Check out the Jags this season) That became apparent as the defense went from 3nd in 2004 to 31st in 2006, much of it relating to allowing defensive players to leave ( Smoot, Peirce, Clark, Harris, Arrington etc.) while bringing in bums like Achuletta and Holdman, and a gaggle of discarded DB's to replace them.

Lavar was one of the first victims of this "delusion of grandeur" suffered by Williams and his staff, and no matter how hard someone tries to re-write history, the facts are the facts. We had a pro bowl level LB warming the bench with Marshall starting in 2004 and Holdman stinking up the place on the weak side in 2005, and as I recall, the defense suffered with Lavar on the Bench in 2005 until Arrington began getting more playing time in the second half of the season.

And when you compare Lavar's numbers in 2002-2003 and then see what production we got on the weak side without him, the story os pretty clear. Williams didn't like Arrington, which is why he didn't play. It wasn't a case of him being out played, it was personal, and Lavar has good reason to have a chip on his shoulder.

As for calling Gibbs a coward, well that's pretty strong. But.......I remember when Gibbs left the first time.....the team talent was depleted (3-4 years without Beathard replenishing it) and the Redskins were poised to have a big fall, so Gibbs got out just in time.

Gibbs II, aside from heroic efforts by the players going on two late season winning streaks in 2005 and 2007 would have wound up with 4 losing seasons and no trips to the playoffs.

Gibbs left again, with 1 year left on his contract. And it could easily be argued that the Redskins are playing much better on both sides of the ball with Zorn and Blache.

RayNAustin wrote:There was certainly a lot of stuff behind the scenes that we aren't aware of, but I remember some of it that is being overlooked in this conversation.

One issue is Lindsey, the LB coach, who was an arrogant idiot that eventually got fired after Lavar was released. Another issue was Gregg Williams belief that it was his all powerful system and not the players that made the defense successful. (Check out the Jags this season) That became apparent as the defense went from 3nd in 2004 to 31st in 2006, much of it relating to allowing defensive players to leave ( Smoot, Peirce, Clark, Harris, Arrington etc.) while bringing in bums like Achuletta and Holdman, and a gaggle of discarded DB's to replace them.

Lavar was one of the first victims of this "delusion of grandeur" suffered by Williams and his staff, and no matter how hard someone tries to re-write history, the facts are the facts. We had a pro bowl level LB warming the bench with Marshall starting in 2004 and Holdman stinking up the place on the weak side in 2005, and as I recall, the defense suffered with Lavar on the Bench in 2005 until Arrington began getting more playing time in the second half of the season.

And when you compare Lavar's numbers in 2002-2003 and then see what production we got on the weak side without him, the story os pretty clear. Williams didn't like Arrington, which is why he didn't play. It wasn't a case of him being out played, it was personal, and Lavar has good reason to have a chip on his shoulder.

As for calling Gibbs a coward, well that's pretty strong. But.......I remember when Gibbs left the first time.....the team talent was depleted (3-4 years without Beathard replenishing it) and the Redskins were poised to have a big fall, so Gibbs got out just in time.

Gibbs II, aside from heroic efforts by the players going on two late season winning streaks in 2005 and 2007 would have wound up with 4 losing seasons and no trips to the playoffs.

Gibbs left again, with 1 year left on his contract. And it could easily be argued that the Redskins are playing much better on both sides of the ball with Zorn and Blache.

Word. Well said.

I don't dispute that the coaching and ownership exacerbated the situation but Lavar was a Pro Bow player largely based on hype. In fact, to an extent he is proof of the flaw in the system for me.
The guy had two very good seasons with the team but he DID, in fact, gamble too often and it DID prove costly. And even during the solid seasons, while his sack levels were very impressive, he was 49th among LBs in tackles in 2003 and 38th in 2002, Jesse Armstead had more tackles both seasons. Arrington's contract extension was a debacle both in terms of how it was carried out and the fact that it was offered at all. The guy was a bright spot in a dark time for Redskins fans but he never was the top-flight linebacker people made him out to be. Just for fun, guess whose 2002-2003 stats these are?
147 tackles, 3 sacks
133 tackles, 2 sacks
One Mr. London Fletcher, who has -- still, somehow -- never been to the Pro Bowl.
So one more time: Lavar, you made a LOT of money, shut up.

Bring back LaVar!

Sorry I was late to the party. My comp was down for a few days. Anyways I heard about this story on Jim Romes show.

I think Lavar went a little too far. I still don't understand why Gibbs never liked Lavar. Lavar was the best player on the team. Yet Gibbs found a reason to let him go.

I still dont think it was about the money. Snyder has been paying players for years yet he decided to not want to take on Lavars contract? I doubt it.

Still I would love if Lavar could come back. I will always love Gibbs and have much respect for him. But why cant Lavar just let bigons be bigons? Love them both. As far as I am concerned as long as Lavar and Gibbs dont murder, steal, or do any other kind of horrific crime I could care less what they say.

Yeah so what? He said some things. No one is hurt words are words. Lavar is obviously still hurt over how he was treated. After giving his self to the Redskins thats how he was repaid? Quite frankly I think anybody who did not like Lavar is a moron. Unappreciative of what he gave to the team and all of D.C.

LaVar had great talent, but he freelanced too much. The coaches wanted him to play within the system, but he would often just ignore that, and do whatever he wanted anyway. This often caused him to be out of position, and cost us games. He had a ton of heart, and loved being part of the Redskins, but he just wouldn't accept that he had to take care of his responsibilities on the field. Maybe Gregg Williams should have changed his scheme to allow LaVar to freelance, a la his hero Lawrence Taylor, but Gregg was too headstrong to do that, and LaVar was too headstrong to change either. Gibbs always supported his coaches, so when LaVar started making trouble about the situation, he felt he had no choice but to get rid of LaVar. This latest squabble is just sour grapes on LaVar's part, and it's really kind of sad.

JSPB22 wrote:LaVar had great talent, but he freelanced too much. The coaches wanted him to play within the system, but he would often just ignore that, and do whatever he wanted anyway. This often caused him to be out of position, and cost us games. He had a ton of heart, and loved being part of the Redskins, but he just wouldn't accept that he had to take care of his responsibilities on the field. Maybe Gregg Williams should have changed his scheme to allow LaVar to freelance, a la his hero Lawrence Taylor, but Gregg was too headstrong to do that, and LaVar was too headstrong to change either. Gibbs always supported his coaches, so when LaVar started making trouble about the situation, he felt he had no choice but to get rid of LaVar. This latest squabble is just sour grapes on LaVar's part, and it's really kind of sad.

Well put.

Exactly.

See, also, the case of Wilbur Marshall, free-lancer under Buddy Ryan and out-of-position often under Richie Petibon.

Marshall, however, learned to play within the system and starred after a couple of sloppy seasons. Arrington didn't.

welch wrote:Exactly.

See, also, the case of Wilbur Marshall, free-lancer under Buddy Ryan and out-of-position often under Richie Petibon.

Marshall, however, learned to play within the system and starred after a couple of sloppy seasons. Arrington didn't.

Wilbur was a better LB than Arrington ever dreamed of being!

welch wrote:Exactly.

See, also, the case of Wilbur Marshall, free-lancer under Buddy Ryan and out-of-position often under Richie Petibon.

Marshall, however, learned to play within the system and starred after a couple of sloppy seasons. Arrington didn't.

So, how many "sloppy seasons" did Arrington have? I seem to remember him doing quite well until he got put in the dog house, under Williams. He was a beast under Lewis. Two arrogant minds don't mesh very well. Frankly, I thinkk we all know that Williams was the more arrogant one, and also the wrong one, IMHO. USE the talent that you have, not waste it.

Champsturf wrote:

welch wrote:Exactly.

See, also, the case of Wilbur Marshall, free-lancer under Buddy Ryan and out-of-position often under Richie Petibon.

Marshall, however, learned to play within the system and starred after a couple of sloppy seasons. Arrington didn't.

So, how many "sloppy seasons" did Arrington have? I seem to remember him doing quite well until he got put in the dog house, under Williams. He was a beast under Lewis. Two arrogant minds don't mesh very well. Frankly, I thinkk we all know that Williams was the more arrogant one, and also the wrong one, IMHO. USE the talent that you have, not waste it.

If Williams was the more "arrogant" one, why is it Lavar 5 years later still in the media pointing fingers in other directions? Also, if you don't remember Lavar's bone head plays you're looking back with a selective memory because that was always an issue. Besides being out of position, remember the game he cost us by taking his helmet off on the field and drawing an auto 15?

Also his leaving may not have just been Gibss, remember the dumb fart calling the owner, the guy who paid him, a liar? Dumb was his middle name. Pointless dumb on and off the field. Obviously nothing's changed and Snyder, Gibbs and Williams share that they are not responsible for his overt stupidity.

JSPB22 wrote:LaVar had great talent, but he freelanced too much. The coaches wanted him to play within the system, but he would often just ignore that, and do whatever he wanted anyway. This often caused him to be out of position, and cost us games. He had a ton of heart, and loved being part of the Redskins, but he just wouldn't accept that he had to take care of his responsibilities on the field. Maybe Gregg Williams should have changed his scheme to allow LaVar to freelance, a la his hero Lawrence Taylor, but Gregg was too headstrong to do that, and LaVar was too headstrong to change either. Gibbs always supported his coaches, so when LaVar started making trouble about the situation, he felt he had no choice but to get rid of LaVar. This latest squabble is just sour grapes on LaVar's part, and it's really kind of sad.

While I don't totally disagree...I do think the whole freelancing label stuck with Lavar unfairly. I see so many people defending JC because of the number of OC he's had, well Lavar had to deal with the same thing. He had a great year under Lewis and he played one of the best games I've seen a Skins LB play in the playoff game in Tampa.

For whatever reason, I always thought this love affair was spoiled at a higher level than the coaching staff, dunno why but, it still feels that way.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Champsturf wrote:

welch wrote:Exactly.

See, also, the case of Wilbur Marshall, free-lancer under Buddy Ryan and out-of-position often under Richie Petibon.

Marshall, however, learned to play within the system and starred after a couple of sloppy seasons. Arrington didn't.

So, how many "sloppy seasons" did Arrington have? I seem to remember him doing quite well until he got put in the dog house, under Williams. He was a beast under Lewis. Two arrogant minds don't mesh very well. Frankly, I thinkk we all know that Williams was the more arrogant one, and also the wrong one, IMHO. USE the talent that you have, not waste it.

If Williams was the more "arrogant" one, why is it Lavar 5 years later still in the media pointing fingers in other directions? Also, if you don't remember Lavar's bone head plays you're looking back with a selective memory because that was always an issue. Besides being out of position, remember the game he cost us by taking his helmet off on the field and drawing an auto 15?

Also his leaving may not have just been Gibss, remember the dumb fart calling the owner, the guy who paid him, a liar? Dumb was his middle name. Pointless dumb on and off the field. Obviously nothing's changed and Snyder, Gibbs and Williams share that they are not responsible for his overt stupidity.

I'll type slowly, as it is OSU/Michigan week and some people are bound to be testy...

Maybe Williams is happy that he's employed? How many times do you remember Williams running his mouth anyway? Just because he doesn't runs his mouth doesn't mean that he isn't one arrogant SOB. Arrington has always been a talker. Why would he change that now? I also don't ever recall me saying that he(LaVar) was bright, just not as arrogant as Williams.

Also, of course I remember bad plays by LaVar. I can probably pick out bad plays by everyone (in recent memory). It doesn't mean that they had a "sloppy season." It means that they made mistakes. That was my point. Thanks for the post though.