The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Coach Greg said, "there's no way to dress that up....that's an UGLY baby"... in terms of how the Defense played.

That's the BEST quote I've heard in YEARS............

roybus14 wrote:Several points:

1. Chris ey did not block well at all tonight. There were several plays where he just missed blocks. Zorn needs to recognize that if Davis is a better blocker on run plays than ey, then play Davis on run plays.

2. The running game. I don't understand why they are consistently running Portis up the middle instead of on the edges?

3. The defense needs to tighten up but they are not horrible.

4. What we are seeing now is the result of too much turnover and confusion with this organization. This team needs stability, continuity and someone who can coach on the fly. If Zorn and his staff are the guy's, then give them a chance to develop a culture where there is stability, continuity and coaching that can adjust on the fly. This revolving door of coaches and systems is killing this team. Yes, these guys are pro's but even pro's need stability, continuity and adjustments. Portis had okay numbers tonight but there were to many times where he was stopped behind the line.

5. It's one game so what? I will be worried if Zorn and his staff can't improve or show improvement next week.

6. Don't take the media too seriously now after one game.....

i agree, but there needs to be evidence of change next weekend, as in improvement in the O... the Saints D is not nearly as good, at least not that i know of, as the Giants D... also, where was Fred Davis, did he play at all??

roybus14 wrote:Several points:

1. Chris ey did not block well at all tonight. There were several plays where he just missed blocks. Zorn needs to recognize that if Davis is a better blocker on run plays than ey, then play Davis on run plays.

And nobody would notice this...?

Mursilis wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

Fios wrote:Some advice to Redskins fans: avoid ESPN and the Washington Post sports section for a few days, they only make the losses tougher because they relish in them

aint that the truth

Actually, it's not. Homers hate the media for reporting neg. stuff, but this team has lost more than it's won over the past 5+ years, so what do you expect?!? Even when the team's been good, it's never been consistently good - we followed our best season in a long time (2005) with another stinker (5-11 in 2006). You can't put lipstick on a pig and call it a beauty queen.

agree and disagree... i feel that a lot of the bad rep comes from Snyder being so aggressive, and not having the results... they like to point that out, whether it is a valid point or not...

Mursilis wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

Fios wrote:Some advice to Redskins fans: avoid ESPN and the Washington Post sports section for a few days, they only make the losses tougher because they relish in them

aint that the truth

Actually, it's not. Homers hate the media for reporting neg. stuff, but this team has lost more than it's won over the past 5+ years, so what do you expect?!? Even when the team's been good, it's never been consistently good - we followed our best season in a long time (2005) with another stinker (5-11 in 2006). You can't put lipstick on a pig and call it a beauty queen.

Did I say to avoid them because they were lying? Did I say they were going to gloss over the positive aspects of this game and be unfair? Did you bother to read the game thread, do you think I'm such an idiot that I can't see that for what it was? Come off it.
The Post clearly has an acrimonious relationship with the team and ESPN has never liked them. A loss is inherently negative, I just don't need it reinforced by people who enjoy it. And that has nothing to do with my having blinders on.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

roybus14 wrote:Several points:

1. Chris ey did not block well at all tonight. There were several plays where he just missed blocks. Zorn needs to recognize that if Davis is a better blocker on run plays than ey, then play Davis on run plays.

And nobody would notice this...?

i agree with CLL, i was going to say that as well, that would be a little obvious... just need to create more plays for ey, no questions asked... he is the most reliable receiver on the team, it is unacceptable that he had one ball thrown to him...

roybus14 wrote:Several points:

1. Chris ey did not block well at all tonight. There were several plays where he just missed blocks. Zorn needs to recognize that if Davis is a better blocker on run plays than ey, then play Davis on run plays.

So? What did you expect? He's never been much of a blocker, and that's not why we have him. If you want a blocking TE, you just stick another O-lineman next to the tackle. ey is an All-Pro for his pass-catching, not his blocking.

2. The running game. I don't understand why they are consistently running Portis up the middle instead of on the edges?

The Giants defense is pretty fast - going outside would NOT have worked. Going up the gut was what got Portis the yards he got, esp. his long one - right up the gut.

3. The defense needs to tighten up but they are not horrible.

It's not that great either; certainly not great enough to win games on its own. Even then, this is an offense-oriented league - you score lots of points, or you lose. Lots of awful teams have had great Ds. Think 2004 Redskins or 2006 Raiders - both of those teams had top 5 Ds, and losing records.

4. What we are seeing now is the result of too much turnover and confusion with this organization. This team needs stability, continuity and someone who can coach on the fly. If Zorn and his staff are the guy's, then give them a chance to develop a culture where there is stability, continuity and coaching that can adjust on the fly. This revolving door of coaches and systems is killing this team. Yes, these guys are pro's but even pro's need stability, continuity and adjustments. Portis had okay numbers tonight but there were to many times where he was stopped behind the line.

5. It's one game so what? I will be worried if Zorn and his staff can't improve or show improvement next week.

The one good things I could see was that Zorn seemed to have found a way to stop the bleeding in the second half, where the score was 0-0. That shows he made some good adjustments, but I also think the Giants let up and went conservative, allowing us back into a game which should've been over by the end of the 3rd. We'll see if Zorn can make adjustments off this game.

tribeofjudah wrote:Coach Greg said, "there's no way to dress that up....that's an UGLY baby"... in terms of how the Defense played.

That's the BEST quote I've heard in YEARS............

If the D was the ugly baby, the offense is like that dude in 'The Mask'

Yeah, the offense was ugly tonight and it certainly looked like Campbell is not yet confident in the system. But I think it will come. Campbell has previously shown far better play and confidence than what we saw from him tonight.

With a new coach and a new system, I wasn't really expecting them to light it up offensively. It will take some time, it always does. And even if we struggle for most of the season, the last thing I'd want to see is another coaching and system change.

After the last couple of years watching a dated offensive system, I'm actually glad to see the implementation of a more modern system. Therefore, in my mind, I'm willing to give it some time. I'd hate to see anyone get impatient and start making changes... again. They just need some time.

I'm a bit foggy on it at the moment, but I seem to remember some Hall Of Fame coach with 3 Super Bowl wins going 0-5 in his first year as head coach.

Man, where is the presser???? I HAVE to have missed it by now...

Fios wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Coach Greg said, "there's no way to dress that up....that's an UGLY baby"... in terms of how the Defense played.

That's the BEST quote I've heard in YEARS............

If the D was the ugly baby, the offense is like that dude in 'The Mask'

This brought on a smile. Then a chuckle. Then I thought it was wrong to smile tonight. Then I looked again. And laughed.

That is freakin funny.

We seriously cannot make a judgement after one game but I'm going to.

Both sides of the ball came out flat in the first half. Both the offense and defense looked substantially better in the second half.

I do have concerns.

Campbell: I saw too much hesitation overall. If Campbell's goal is to not turn the ball over, excellent job. If his goal is to win games, you have to check off to deep routes, you have to let go of the ball and you have to be able to read a defense.

Come on O-Line: A great comparison is how well our defensive blitzing was held in check. The Giants picked up nearly every single blitz we called. We really don't need to get MUCH better on defense but we really need to get better at keeping people from doing whatever they want in the backfield. Our offensive line looks like a revolving door right now.

Heyer: This could've been a LOT worse. Either Tuck, Kiwanuka, Strahan or Umenyiora would've beaten whoever we wanted to put at RT this game. But if Jansen would've been in for the first half we would've seen the typical Campbell turnovers and we would've lost by 20...

I'm not sure if its the playcalling or our small receivers but I saw zero separation in the majority of our passing plays. They had a player in every passing lane almost 90% of the time. I can't blame Campbell for that. Excellent defensive gameplan.

I do not think Zorn had any intention of winning this game in the last 4 or 5 minutes. I think Zorn is extremely frustrated with this offense and he wanted them to figure something out. I think not going for the FG/win was intentional. He's smarter than that. He is not a person who doesn't understand the game.

The offensive gameplan was awful. I'm hoping this was an eye opening experience for the entire staff.

I think there are more question marks now than what we saw after the preseason finale.

That said, we still have 15 more games. The entire team played hesitant (coaches included). We'll find out how good Zorn really is in due time...

Okay, I might have to change my name to "Rose-Colored-Glasses-Guy", because I'm actually fired up by this game. I think the team...The Team... showed some resiliency and fight that kept the game from going 56 - 0 (which I was envisioning after the first quarter) and instead had the Giants fans biting some nails (evidenced by the Giants fan sitting next to me tonight)

Fios wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

Fios wrote:Some advice to Redskins fans: avoid ESPN and the Washington Post sports section for a few days, they only make the losses tougher because they relish in them

aint that the truth

Actually, it's not. Homers hate the media for reporting neg. stuff, but this team has lost more than it's won over the past 5+ years, so what do you expect?!? Even when the team's been good, it's never been consistently good - we followed our best season in a long time (2005) with another stinker (5-11 in 2006). You can't put lipstick on a pig and call it a beauty queen.

Did I say to avoid them because they were lying? Did I say they were going to gloss over the positive aspects of this game and be unfair? Did you bother to read the game thread, do you think I'm such an idiot that I can't see that for what it was? Come off it.
The Post clearly has an acrimonious relationship with the team and ESPN has never liked them. A loss is inherently negative, I just don't need it reinforced by people who enjoy it. And that has nothing to do with my having blinders on.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the whether the media enjoys seeing the 'skins lose - maybe some do, and I don't doubt that, but some critics of the team like Riggins can't be accused of being anti-skins out of sheer hate. And no, I don't consider you an idiot - I actually respect your opinion very much. But I didn't read all 80+ pages of the game-thread. My TV is not near my computer. Regardless, the media is just the media - easy to ignore.

Mursilis wrote:but some critics of the team like Riggins can't be accused of being anti-skins out of sheer hate.

Come on, man, he mentioned ESPN and the Post. Does Riggins work for either of those two media outlets?

Funny thing is...I think I prefer the Gibbs/Saunders offense...not necessarily his play calling, but the plays to choose from. The West Coast offense relies too much on the the YAC...when we were pressed in the 4th, I don't think that there are a lot of plays available for the comeback (2 scores).

it was an ugly game with plenty of negatives to dwell on. however, it says a lot that we are working with a new head coach and offense coaches. it takes time to learn a brand new system. give it time. as the game went on the team showed improvement and they will get better the more games they play. zorn went into this game saying the running team is far ahead of the passing game. and thats only because its the same running system. every other aspect of the offense is still catching up not to mention they only have two true starters on wr. they should continue to get better and eventually they will become competitive, even if it takes a season.

A few thoughts....

Zorn was outcoached and simply looked lost at times, particularly late in the 4th quarter. There was no urgency from anybody (players, coaches, etc.) and our offense was more predictable than a Gibbs offense.

Heyer was awful. If Jansen isn't able to beat him out with the way he played tonight then we are in big, big trouble. Same guys for Kendall. He was getting beat all day.

Campbell simply held onto the ball too long. I like him a lot but he just doesn't know the offense well at this point. It's to be expected with yet another new offense for him to learn.

Carlos Rogers....still can't catch a football and Plexico owned him tonight.

CP is probably the only guy on offense that deserves any credit. The line opened up no holes but he ran hard. And that block that he put on Kiwanuka was awesome.

Landry....wow, just wow. Getting trucked by Jacobs like that was flat out emberassing. He can expect to be on all the highlight shows this week for the wrong reason.

Jason Taylor....only one game but he was terrible. His failure to keep containment was the main reason for the Giants td.

Special teams....one are where we did a good job. ARE danced too much as usual, but Rock did a great job on both returns and coverage. Brooks I thought did a good job overall as well.

London Fletcher came to play as always. Deserves the game ball on defense.

ey is a paid professional and if he is not getting the ball he should still be able to contribute. But that is really on ey and the coaches. He should have blocked better and they should have yanked his butt on running plays and put in either one of the other TE's to block.

SkinsFreak wrote:Yeah, the offense was ugly tonight and it certainly looked like Campbell is not yet confident in the system. But I think it will come. Campbell has previously shown far better play and confidence than what we saw from him tonight.

With a new coach and a new system, I wasn't really expecting them to light it up offensively. It will take some time, it always does. And even if we struggle for most of the season, the last thing I'd want to see is another coaching and system change.

After the last couple of years watching a dated offensive system, I'm actually glad to see the implementation of a more modern system. Therefore, in my mind, I'm willing to give it some time. I'd hate to see anyone get impatient and start making changes... again. They just need some time.

I'm a bit foggy on it at the moment, but I seem to remember some Hall Of Fame coach with 3 Super Bowl wins going 0-5 in his first year as head coach.

I agree, we need to keep the system in place. No more sudden changes in staff and philosiphy. As bad as it looked tonight we need to keep "chopping wood", it'll come sooner or later (hopefully SOONER than later). JC will get into a comfort zone and not lock onto a single receiver and make reads and "play football".

We need to throw the ball beyond the first down marker on third down.

We need to step up the tempo (especially at the end of the game)

Pass protection needs to improve.

I think play calling could have been a bit better.

I think the defense played well for the most part. Holding the defending Super Bowl Champions to 1 TD and shutting them out in the second half was an accomplishment considering they didn't get much help from the offense. I think allowing a 50% conversion rate on 3rd down needs to get better, and DBs need to CATCH the ball when it hits them in the hands. We need to put pressure on the QB without having to bring a 5th rusher.

SkinsJock wrote:We are not as bad as we looked and we are certainly not as good as we should be.

The defense played reasonably well considering the defensive backfield situation. We look like we will have a chance at having a decent defense.

The offense will continue to be a work in progress. I think Portis will have a really great year - this guy is special. We have to get Campbell to be quicker - in my opinion he has to make reads a lot quicker and work on his release. I have always been concerned about how he has handled the speed of the game and he is not getting any better. Some have it and he does not look good. That being said we are a lot better off with him than any other option at QB - we will need to add a big time QB sooner rather than later. Collins is a back up and Brennan is years away.

I think you got your thumb on the problem, but to say we are a lot better off with Campbell than any other option is ignoring a whole bunch of things, including this game and 4-12 for 40 yards in the first half. That is once again, pathetic. And from the very first play, a sack, was on Campbell. The o-line had established a pocket...Campbell drifted out of the pocket and to the right, right into the rusher. Campbell not only holds the ball too long...he has no feel for the game....LOUSY instincts and poor pocket presence. Exactly how much worse could it get with either Collins or Brennan back there? I say it couldn't get any worse than that. This game was a mirror image of the last two embarrassing efforts from the great JC.

Apparently Zorn has been reviewing films of 2006 and 2007 to compare to the pre season. And after that miserable first half, I think he sees what he's got, and in the 4th quarter, Zorn was calling the only plays he thinks Campbell can manage....hand offs, and dump offs.

Now that certainly wasn't going to win the game for us, but neither was calling plays down field that didn't have a snowball's chance. I guess he figured the odds of CP taking one to the house were better than watching Campbell stand back there looking like a clueless idiot.

The defense did an OUTSTANDING job considering that they spent most of the game on the field. With a lessor effort on D, this game could have easily been 40+ to 7

RayNAustin, I'm not quoting your entire post.. ridiculous. Can you seriously sit here and say you'd like to see Collins or Brennan behind the center?

Alright, if your ready to talk football, and in particular, REDSKINS football, how about watching how Campbell is progressing? Look at his wind up last year and then look at it this year. He's shortened up, probably too much in fact. He's short throwing the ball. You can see Zorn is working with him and trying to mold him into a WC offense QB. So he didn't come out and look great week 1, is anyone THAT surprised???

The D played excellent, along with special teams. But as we all knew the offense is going to take some time. Let Zorn keep coaching Campbell and let the D keep playing well and we might have a season yet. If not, we'll at least have some growing pains.

If I have to read one more post about Collins or Brennan I'm going to........

LukeA wrote:RayNAustin, I'm not quoting your entire post.. ridiculous. Can you seriously sit here and say you'd like to see Collins or Brennan behind the center?

Alright, if your ready to talk football, and in particular, REDSKINS football, how about watching how Campbell is progressing? Look at his wind up last year and then look at it this year. He's shortened up, probably too much in fact. He's short throwing the ball. You can see Zorn is working with him and trying to mold him into a WC offense QB. So he didn't come out and look great week 1, is anyone THAT surprised???

The D played excellent, along with special teams. But as we all knew the offense is going to take some time. Let Zorn keep coaching Campbell and let the D keep playing well and we might have a season yet. If not, we'll at least have some growing pains.

If I have to read one more post about Collins or Brennan I'm going to........

If you can seriously sit here and say something as ridiculous as seeing Campbell progressing, I certainly can seriously sit here and say that I'd like to see ANYONE back there but him. ANYONE. Collins, Brennan, Randal El, Heath Shuler, Throckmorten Dingelberry......YOU. YOU. I'd TAKE YOU back there!!! YOU couldn't do MUCH worse

not shortened enough though... That line will not and cannot afford him the time he needs to go thru his progression (at his pace). This is not the first game he has looked like this, the last 3 games he has been slow. It's as if he is so concentrated on not messing up that he is so slow on his reads, or very very hesitant. The spotlight is definitely on him this season, make or break time I guess. I'm not surprised we looked horrible. Was it me or was ey as open as betts on the closing seconds and he threw to Betts. I'm surprised more on the defense, same personnel, different results. Blache is def. no GW. Carlos is coming along, I wish he caught those balls, but hey, he was actually around the reciever this time, Kudos to his coverage I say. Smoot got owned by Plax all night, but we were thin there. Landry, heh, what can I say, sometimes you get the bull, sometimes the bull gets you. Reed did an ok job... We got pushed around up front on both sides of the ball. Not good.

I'm going to smack if you REALLY want to know what I'm thinking