The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I think some of you got the wrong idea.

I do respect Joe Gibbs for what he has done, he's the best coach in Redskins history, maybe the best in NFL history... he's already in the Hall of Fame and he's done more for the team than any player ever has.

That said, he can only do so much in 5 years. I see his role as coach for the next few years as getting the Redskins "back on track" and then turn the team over to a new coach. He's a terrific coach who COULD be the one to get us back into the playoffs, maybe even a Super Bowl... but he's not in the long term on field plans. (He'll still be in the front office)

Now that would be great... but then I'm hearing he wants to bring in a 33 year old quarterback to compete for a starting job, and he's bringing in all older assistants...

I could be wrong but it just doesn't seem like he's focusing on the long term direction of the team...

Does anyone else feel that way?

^^ forgot to sign in ^^

I always thought their "marks" were this brown, sticky, smelly stain in the back of their pants.....but I digress.

And what, might I ask, is wrong with that ? Clearly, these two men could not figure out how to put their respective drawers back on the right way in the morning without some type of color coding !
"Yellow in the front, brown in the back." It's a fool-proof system, and likely the only thing either did right in their tenures.
Once again, good thing good old TCWEST is here to bring light to the utter darkness.

Hey guest - you are contradicting yourself. First you say Joe can only do so much in 5 years and he's going to get us back on track, and then you conclude he's not doing this for the long term. He wants to win now, get the team to learn how to win, have the older players mentor the younger players, use the old assistants to pass on knowledge to the newer assistants and then have Williams take over and get the Redskin tradition back. Sounds like a plan to me...

Skinsfan55 wrote:You're kind of avoiding the issue here.

What if we'd gotten George Allen out of retirement, or gotten another "experienced coach that had already made his mark" in 1981?

Joe Gibbs was a talented, young (40 yr old) offensive coordinator for the Chargers, and we signed him to take over the team. (Did he even have prior head coaching experience?)

And he turned out to be the best coach in Redskins, and perhaps even NFL history.

We have a very proud past... the Redskins were once one of the most dominant teams in history... but should we be trying to go back into the past to win again? Or should we be looking towards the future? Trying to find a new coach to start a dynasty here. Because, Joe is only gonna be here for 5 years as head coach... he can't make us a dynasty again, he can win us a Superbowl, maybe even two... but very, very soon we're gonna need a new, young entusiastic coach to work with. This is also a reason I'm uncomfortable with all the older assistants... I believe one should be being groomed to succede Gibbs... anyway, I don't mean to disrespect the man who' done so much for the Redskins, I think he can win... but like I said, he's only here fo 5 years.

I don't know how long you have been following the skins, but this is the truth. Joe Gibbs is a legend. This is the best thing that could of happened for the skins. I remember the night when the redskins played their last game of the season against the eagles. A friend of mine and I were talking about what the redskins needed to do for next season to fix the chaotic mess in Washington. I, out of the blue, brought up the hypothetical what if? Joe Gibbs came back. He said, It would be the best thing that would ever happen, but that would never happen. I responded saying, your right, it will never happen. But wouldn't that be the best thing to ever happen for us skins. Hell, a guy can dream can't he? Then Joe Gibbs was our new coach.I, not to sound dramatic or sappy, had tears come to my eyes. For those who are young, this is incredible. I am old enough to have had the privilege of seeing Joe Gibbs career. He is, in my opinion, the best coach I have ever witnessed in my life time. I don't know what the results of this new Gibbs era would be, but I know there is no one out there right now that could possibly compete with Joe. He is one of the best.

I didn't contradict myself at all, I said that I see his job as being a 5 year plan to get the Redskins back on track... to point them towards the future... and his actions seem to contradict that.

Gregg Williams is a good coach, I'd be surprised if he's still here in 5 years. Someone is gonna want him as a head coach before then. I feel like in addition to getting the team back on track he should be preparing a young coach to take over (not Williams who I believe is 46).

Skinsfan55 wrote:I see his job as being a 5 year plan to get the Redskins back on track... to point them towards the future... and his actions seem to contradict that.

Good buddy, you're wearing Hanburger's number 55, which only means that I ain't gonna get in your way when you got a chip on your shoulder, if you're anything like THAT beast.
Here's the thing (and I don't mean to pick just one word of your last post, but)...Joe hasn't had any "actions" ! If you're pointing at the coaching staff, you're out of your mind. It's an All-Pro collection. More likely, you mean going to Jacksonville to meet with Brunell. Well, now...that's just what Joe does, you know ? You can read it anywhere else on these threads, and I know you have ! He wants a veteran to compete with Patches. If nothing else, we meet with many, many other veteran qb's. C'mon, now ! What if we never had Doug ? We have to have somebody around who's seen it all ! Believe me when I tell you, Joe almost positively equates parting with a 2nd Round pick to parting with his first-born son. Trust him, dude. He won't do anything stupid. Eleven years out of the game or not, the game will never change so much where a 2nd round pick is considered superfluous. I promise you that. Relax, man. He'll get us there. That's why he came back. He couldn't stand to see what was happening to us since he left.
You know, sometimes, on eBay, I'll get outbid for something by somebody who just puts in a real high number, like $50.00 for a $15.00 item. If I have enough time, just to mess with the guy, I'll go back to the auction and push it up, $15.50, $17.00, $24.00 ...just to drive it up some, and make him pay . Silly analogy ? Yes. But I read somewhere in these threads that maybe (just, maybe) Joe's strategy is to make Dallas give up an arm and a leg to get this guy.
Believe me. He wants to best Parcells. Could it be ? I don't know. That, though, is NO five year plan.
He'll get us right, man. Trust him.

I can't even broach this subject without flying off the handle...

ANYONE can say I meant no disrespect... but EVERYONE can see that you did.

That's all I can say on that.

Talking about any older person with the regard you do is an obvious sign of youth and to an adult, an obvious sign of disrespect.

This board is full of people of all ages... very young and dare I say... very old too.... before you go slagging any 'old person' as 'forgetful' you'd do well to remember that the 'old people' have been watching the Skins since before you were born. Diesrespect is born out of ignorance... don't be ignorant... learn about Joe Gibbs... study some Redskin history... find out WHY he is so revered... then maybe you won't shoot your own toes off.

Allow me to capitalize some important words for you. Pay special attention to these words, they will be the most important.

George Allen died in 1990, I know this...

But say we had tried to get him out of retirement BACK IN 1981 (when he was still alive) INSTEAD of signing a young offensive coordinator from San Diego NAMED JOE GIBBS. We would have skipped over the BEST COACH IN REDSKINS HISTORY because we were living in the past.

There, that said... I know the history of the team, I respect what Joe Gibbs has done. But what will he be doing for the Skins in the next 5 years? Will he be turning the team around and pointing them forward? Will he be teaching our young guys like Coles, Ramsey, Samuels, Jansen, Baily, Smoot etc. valuable football lessons so they can continue to be great after he leaves? Will he be grooming a young coach to succede him in 5 years? I'm confused about Joe's role here. If he wants to come in and enhance his own legacy, and win another title, that's fine... he can do that in 5 years. But if he wants to make the franchise great again I think he needs to work for the future, not live in the past.

I'm confused about Joe's role here. If he wants to come in and enhance his own legacy, and win another title, that's fine... he can do that in 5 years. But if he wants to make the franchise great again I think he needs to work for the future, not live in the past.

yes you are quite obviously confused.

Enhance his legacy?

That just proves you know absolutely nothing about joe Gibbs the man. No offense, but I have been fortunate enough to sit down and interview many players from the Gibs era and the most telling thing said from ALL of them was how much Gibbs changed their LIVES... not their football careers, He is a special man, with special talents, and you slap every redskin fan with 20 years of fandom in the face when you even imply otherwise.

George Allen was a good coach. Gibbs is a legend.
George Allen won 0 SB's... Gibbs won 3.

You seem to think you know what joe's doing... and you're basing it on what? The media's recount of the Skins trying to shore up the QB position? Ignorant.

When Joe stood on the podium ringless and said that he was coming in to start fresh and that he hadn't brought his past rings with him because he was only looking to the future... was that him trying to find this 'quick fix' that you are accusing him of?

Step off the soapbox for 2 seconds and realize that it doesn't really matter what YOU (or I) think... Joe gibbs has forgotten more about football than you and I will ever know. That means if his idea of making this franchise successful REQUIRES a veteran backup to either push Ramsey for a spot or even push him out of a spot... then it's probably good for the franchise. Whether you, me or anyone else can see it.

He's Saint Gibbs for crying out loud.

"Talking about any older person with the regard you do is an obvious sign of youth and to an adult, an obvious sign of disrespect."

I don't think I'm being disrespectful because I am having questions about weather or not Joe Gibbs is the right man for the job in 2004. He OBVIOUSLY was the right man in 1981-1992 but what is his role going to be NOW? He's not the young coach that built the Redskins into a dynasty that you guys fell in love with anymore. I just don't understand what he's going to do here.

A lot of people say that Joe Gibbs was the ONLY man who could fix the Redskins in the state they were in. I disagree, I don't believe the situation was that dire. We have the pieces in place to be an effective team (we could have MORE pieces in place if Dan Snyder would hire a general manager, this isn't a videogame, you need a pro to evaluate and sign talent.)

For the record I respect Joe Gibbs very much, it was wrong of me to imply that he was just some forgetful old man, I mean my own grandfather is a few years older than Gibbs and he's got a mind like a steel trap. Joe Gibbs has been fighting off offers from other teams for years and would only accept a position to the Redskins because he was so upset by the constant losing ever since he left the team. So he's finally decided to come back and put in the long, long hours it will take to make the Redskins a competitive team again.

I guess I was upset about the prospect of my favorite Redskin (probably ever, I only started following the Skins when we signed Heath Shuler, go figure) Patrick Ramsey being benched or worse yet traded to make room for a 33 year old quarterback, and I made some erroneous comments about Joe Gibbs' mental health (I'd like to fully retract those statements)

However, I still believe that Gibbs' role is to get the team back on track and then hand the team over to a younger coach who can have his own dynasty. I think the coaching staff he built IS an all-pro unit... but there's not one guy in there I think is young enough that Gibbs will be able to turn the team over to for 10 years after he leaves...

BossHog wrote:

That just proves you know absolutely nothing about joe Gibbs the man. No offense, but I have been fortunate enough to sit down and interview many players from the Gibs era and the most telling thing said from ALL of them was how much Gibbs changed their LIVES...

You're right, I don't know much about Joe Gibbs at all... In fact, my only experience with the Redskins is first round busts, bad coaches, losing seasons, and weak quarterbacks. When Patrick Ramsey got drafted I saw him as the savior of the Redskins... now Joe Gibbs comes in and I hear in various media sources that he wants Brunell and Ramsey could be traded... I mean, that just sounds horrible... and having no knowledge of Joe Gibbs I can't just dismiss this as ridiculous like you guys can. I'm used to Dan Snyder moves, Marty Schottenheimer cutting good players because they looked at him funny...

But you guys are right, if Joe Gibbs is half the football guy that everyone says he is, then he knows Ramsey is a special talent and a key part of the Redskins success

I'm one of the "old" guys but I know the era of having a player on the team for 10 years is OVER...players are rented for 3 years (signed for multiple years to help spread the $ average). Turnover is quick...Nobody will be a lifetime Redskin again, I'm sorry to say. Lavar is signed for a while - unless we renegotiate every 2-3 years we'll have to let him go sooner than later - and he'll play for someone else (whether, no weather) you like it or not. Again, sorry to burst bubbles...

... or knows that patrick ISN'T the solution.

There's really no denying his lack of mobility and the fact that Hasselbeck did as good or better. I love P-Ram as much as anyone, but it was pretty shocking to see Rob Johnson and Gibby beat him by half a field in wind sprints.

You talk about fans having an unhealthy allegiance to Gibbs and everything he does... how about yours to Patrick? Let's try and remember that as likable a guy as Patrick is... he hasn't DONE anything yet. if we weren't so desperate for a QB last year, we wouldn't even be giving it a second thought that Patrick needed a year or so to groom.

And he should realize that too.

... and Wysocki is right... the words 'for life' and 'free agency' just can't exist in the same sentence any more.

the coaches record speaks for itself. not to mention that he has (like bosshog said earlier)3 superbowl rings with 3 different qb,a.i guess meeting him in 93 made all the difference to me in charlotte and getting my pic with him in the hauler. the man knows the game period.

everyone give 55 a break. does everyone here have so much emotional serum bubling inside them that they can't see through to the big picture. One should think rationally, using your head rather than just your heart.

I love Gibbs, he is a god, but we do need a young coach in the ranks ready to go when gibbs leaves (which MIGHT be 5 years, probably less considering the oldest coach now is 67 and he's thinking about hanging them up), so gibbs is not the long term plan. the only thing i have to say is gibbs was the ONLY hope to save us NOW, but we have to hope the organization is permanently righted by the man.

to accuse "how dare you insult this man" and all this other bunk about respecting your elders, gibbs will fix everything, no need to question,etc. - just makes us sound like a bunch of pre-pubescent screaming little girls at a beatles concert in '64.

So right on 55, use your head, question, but do have faith in the man, the god.

55 stick to your point!! Your point is valid while many of us here may not agree with it, we will respect it. Calling Joe forgetful is off the point. Yes we could have missed the next great coach...I myself wanted to see Crennel as coach but the one coach who could trump all coaches is Gibbs of the all the teams in the NFL you'd be hard pressed to find 10 % that wouldn't let Joe coach their team.


This goes back to another post where I said that there doesn't seem to be a since of Joe's history among the youth here and it's seem to be split (I'm generally speaking) along youth lines here. Maybe a little history lessons is in order.
You say we may have missed the next great young coach, ask yourself this question...how many great young coaches have come along since Gibbs left the game in 92 and how many would-be great coaches have failed in that same timeframe??
Look at the guys getting it done now Percell, Vermeil, Bilicek all old school guys and the new young ones...a lot of them are disciples of the
old guys!!

Wysocki wrote:era of having a player on the team for 10 years is OVER...players are rented for 3 years... Turnover is quick...Nobody will be a lifetime Redskin again, I'm sorry to say.

BossHog wrote:You talk about fans having an unhealthy allegiance to Gibbs and everything he does... how about yours to Patrick?

sad to say, these guys are right. i'm a young guy... old enough to remember and cherish the gibbs days (at least, the last two superbowls...) and young enough to have had the vast majority of my life as a fan defined by lousy coaches and lousy qbs. i fall kind of in the middle of this group. and it is so, so sad to me to think about what Wysocki said, because he's so right, and so's BH. the reason we (particularly the young) have an unhealthy allegiance to ramsey is that we've, for the most part, been fans in an era without icons. i remember and loved monk, clark, sanders, williams, etc... but since 91, there have been no iconic players. we've struggled through schuler, frerotte, god knows who else. ramsey finally seemed like the skins would have a QB again, like other teams have been blessed with. trading ramsey seems like more of the same... get rid of a kid who could be our permanent qb for a hired gun. but that's the way it is these days, i guess, and we have to remain focused on the fact that the only skins icon that has been really, really important in the last two decades is back, and that's joe gibbs.

Geez guys give 55 a break, so he is young and not knowledgeable.

Save all that anger for us Cowpoke fans.

Skinsfan55 there are 2 books you should read if you wanna learn about sucess and the great Coach Gibbs.

Racing to Win: Establish Your Game Plan for Success by Coach gibbs.

Fourth and one: Living and Learning the true meaning of Sucess by Coach Gibbs.

and for you amusement since i am a cowpoke fan

Finding a Way by Coach Parcells.

Well I personally apologize if i came off as gruff, since it's offended some of the lightweights in here.

Stiffen up, grow a spine, fight for what you believe... I am not demanding that anyone agree with me... I'm no more correct than the next guy... i'm just a fan... but I do expect that if people are gonna spout psychobabble that they either back it up or not be surprised when they are taken to task.

BossHog wrote:Stiffen up, grow a spine, fight for what you believe...

Ditto...stick to your guns if you beleive you have a point then you do indeed have one...but understand others may have a different view...I found that out about a second after my first post!! But I never changed my view.

stiffen up huh?

you didn't get the point, did you?

Some of the lightweights? Are you not a lightweight because you got all offended and defensive as soon as someone questioned our boy gibbs? the only offense taken was by all those who responded to 55 as someone who is ignorant or someone who "slapped every redskin fan in the face". we must grow a spine when it comes to Gibbs too. not pyschobabble, rather it is plain truth.

face it, 55 brought up the point that this was an organizational problem and Gibbs, while being the man, is a quick fix ( a la Brunell-style) for a team; unless he can groom some up-and-comers and correct, permanently, the path of the team.

oh yeah another thing..."never changed my view". hmmm..so if no one changes their view what's the point of discussing?

polemics are about influencing others

radomhog wrote:stiffen up huh?

you didn't get the point, did you?

Some of the lightweights? Are you not a lightweight because you got all offended and defensive as soon as someone questioned our boy gibbs? the only offense taken was by all those who responded to 55 as someone who is ignorant or someone who "slapped every redskin fan in the face". we must grow a spine when it comes to Gibbs too. not pyschobabble, rather it is plain truth.

face it, 55 brought up the point that this was an organizational problem and Gibbs, while being the man, is a quick fix ( a la Brunell-style) for a team; unless he can groom some up-and-comers and correct, permanently, the path of the team.

Not sure if you were addressing me or Boss. I was the first to admit that he had a valid point, and the he should stick to it. I wasn't offended in the least. I just disagree with him...I think Gibbs will right the ship and the best part is I think it will be Gibbs, not Danny or Vinny who will select our next great young coach!!

Don't forget guys, Gibbs has been on the job for less than a month. Let's give him a break. I don't expect him to be coaching when he is 70, but while he is here, he may well bring us another championship and may well groom a replacement. That could be Williams - who may need time to get over his Buffalo failure. I still think Ritchie Petibone got a raw deal when Gibbs left in 1993. One year wasn't fair to a man who devoted so much of his life to the skins. (sorry off thread).

Anyway, you are part of the Redskin family of fans 55, and your posts are welcome - stick to your guns - but be prepared for a war of words if you mess with Gibbs. There are too many of us that truly respect, admire and love the man and always will.