The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

cvillehog wrote:What are the specific factors?

Fast reflexes, body timing, strategy related to the strengths/weakenesses of your car vis-a-vis others, physical endurance, concentration, knowledge of the laws of physics, perfect execution of tactical maneuvers, and tons of courage.

Nothing that we would not ask to and expect from the Redskins.

1niksder wrote:I'll have to say yes NASCAR is a sport. I was once told it's all in the name.

I am arguing fo car racing as a sport in general. Not only NASCAR. But along the same token, we football fans certainly do not have an umblemished reputation either.

I am going to say Philthy and Oakland for a fun in the sun holiday any given Sunday, for example.

sport
n.

An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

cvillehog wrote:What are the specific factors?

Fast reflexes, body timing, strategy related to the strengths/weakenesses of your car vis-a-vis others, physical endurance, concentration, knowledge of the laws of physics, perfect execution of tactical maneuvers, and tons of courage.

Nothing that we would not ask to and expect from the Redskins.

Once again, it is not an insult to say that racing is not a sport. It is certainly highly competitive. And it certainly requires endurance and concentration and all of that.

Courage is not a requirement for sport, so let's just drop that to begin with. What do you have left?

Reflexes & timing (very related), strategy, endurance, concentration, physics and execution.

Hmmm, would you consider bowling a sport? What about golf? Shuffle board? Competitive video gaming? (By the way, your definition still includes drum corps as well.)

I still maintain that your definition is too broad. In trying to find a definition that includes NASCAR (and other auto racing), you are including things that clearly are not sports.

Sport: An atheletic competition made up of at least the following three elements: Two opposing individuals/teams in direct head-to-head competition, a ball/puck/rocket/etc, and objective scoring (as opposed to say, figure skating which has judges).

JansenFan wrote:sport
n.

An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

As I mentioned, that definition is entirely too broad.

What you mean to say is that your interpretation of the definition is too broad. The definition is what it is.

JansenFan wrote:What you mean to say is that your interpretation of the definition is too broad. The definition is what it is.

I meant to say what I said. I'm not interpreting the definition. I'm taking it at face value.

First definition on Dictionary.com:
"Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."

Which of the following are not sports according to that definition?

*Golf
*Chess
*Video Gaming
*Bullying
*Spitting contests
*Presidential Phyical Fitness Challenge
*Juggling
*Knife Throwing
*Cheerleading

I could go on.

First definition on Dictionary.com:
"Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."

*Golf - Sport
*Chess - Not a physical activity, unless you are going by the definition that anything involving movement is physical
*Video Gaming - See chess
*Bullying - Not governed by rules or custom, also not competitive
*Spitting contests - Not a physical activity
*Presidential Phyical Fitness Challenge - Not a competetive challenge in that the kids aren't competing against each other, only set standards.
*Juggling - Not governed by rules
*Knife Throwing - not governed by rules, typically not competetive
*Cheerleading - Competetive cheerleading is considered a sport, at least by ESPN.

JansenFan wrote:First definition on Dictionary.com:
"Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."

*Golf - Sport
*Chess - Not a physical activity, unless you are going by the definition that anything involving movement is physical
*Video Gaming - See chess
*Bullying - Not governed by rules or custom, also not competitive
*Spitting contests - Not a physical activity
*Presidential Phyical Fitness Challenge - Not a competetive challenge in that the kids aren't competing against each other, only set standards.
*Juggling - Not governed by rules
*Knife Throwing - not governed by rules, typically not competetive
*Cheerleading - Competetive cheerleading is considered a sport, at least by ESPN.

I did only ask which ones were NOT sports by that definition, but thanks for your response.

Now, if the phisical movements involved in chess and video gaming are not sufficient to be considered sports, where does NASCAR fit in?

Also, with regard to the cheerleading, ESPN also shows quite a bit of poker, is that a sport?

Alas, poker is not a physical activity, however competetive cheerleading is.

Driving however is. It requires strength and coordination to muscle the car through the turns, control the steering on courses with bumps, fighting wind, avoiding the walls and other drivers, etc. It also requires stamina to be able to do so under searing heat and pressure for 3 hours. Lastly, the members of the pit crew are throwing around heavy tires, cans of gas, running around, etc. Yes, comparing driving a car at 200 mph to moving a chess peice or pressing buttons on your couch is a bit off base IMO.

Forget the dictionary, I have come up with a way of determining if a sport is a sport. It is a simple phrase and your response determines if the activiity is a sport, or just that, an activiity. You just say to your self, "Lets go play ________."

In this case, NASCAR, so you would gather some friends, and say "Lets go play NASCAR!" This can only result in two different scenarios, you and your friends play a boring video/computer game, or you race on the highway and end up with speeding tickets/totaled car/dead, either way, disapointed.

"Lets go play football, baseball, soccer, hockey, ect." These can be done. "Lets go play NASCAR." ???No, cant be done, its NOT a sport.

To be fair, in your example, Nascar isn't the right question to ask. You are saying lets go play football, so you would have to say lets go race cars, or you would have to say, lets go play NFL.

JansenFan wrote:Alas, poker is not a physical activity, however competetive cheerleading is.

Driving however is. It requires strength and coordination to muscle the car through the turns, control the steering on courses with bumps, fighting wind, avoiding the walls and other drivers, etc. It also requires stamina to be able to do so under searing heat and pressure for 3 hours. Lastly, the members of the pit crew are throwing around heavy tires, cans of gas, running around, etc. Yes, comparing driving a car at 200 mph to moving a chess peice or pressing buttons on your couch is a bit off base IMO.

I don't recall the definition setting a standard for physical activity.

See my definition on the previous page, I think it is much less ambiguous than this dictionary definition.

By the way, drum corps still qualifies under the dictionary definition, and I still maintain that it is not a sport.

The problem is that your definition is set to meet your criteria for sports. The official definition is broader because different people are free to classify different things as sports.

One could say that the definition of a successful season is making the playoffs, but to me the REdskins are moving in the right direction and I don't feel we need to make the playoffs for this to be a successful season.

JansenFan wrote:The problem is that your definition is set to meet your criteria for sports. The official definition is broader because different people are free to classify different things as sports.

I disagree. The problem with your (ok, it isn't actualy your own personal definition, but the dictionary's) defition is that it is gives a broad description that can apply to any number of things that are or are not sports, games, competitions, etc. It is not an appropriate definition if you can say it includes things which are not sports. Would you consider drum corps to be a sport?

JansenFan wrote:One could say that the definition of a successful season is making the playoffs, but to me the REdskins are moving in the right direction and I don't feel we need to make the playoffs for this to be a successful season.

Well, not that this really has anything to do with whether NASCAR is a sport, but I suppose it's all in your expectations.

cvillehog wrote:Sport: An atheletic competition made up of at least the following three elements: Two opposing individuals/teams in direct head-to-head competition, a ball/puck/rocket/etc, and objective scoring (as opposed to say, figure skating which has judges).

Lets leave ALL of track and field, swimming, diving, archery, wrestling, judo, fencing, and 80% of Olympic sports out also.

And does golf not fit in the above definition? I am not arguing it. I am just highlighting the flaws in your definition.

Objective scoring? As in football where the judges make no calls that change the outcome of games? How timely with the Redskins this season!

But quite frankly, I do not feel that you can be persuaded. So, let us agree to disagree. I only judge things that I know something about from first hand experience but others may decide to do otherwise.

Ok, I can accept you problem with the dictionary's definition, but that doesn't mean you can make up your own to suit your opinion and try to pass it off as an argument in your case against NASCAR and whether or not it is a sport.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

cvillehog wrote:Sport: An atheletic competition made up of at least the following three elements: Two opposing individuals/teams in direct head-to-head competition, a ball/puck/rocket/etc, and objective scoring (as opposed to say, figure skating which has judges).

Lets leave ALL of track and field, swimming, diving, archery, wrestling, judo, fencing, and 80% of Olympic sports out also.

Absolutely! Those are all atheletic competitions, but not sports.

Redskin in Canada wrote:And does golf not fit in the above definition? I am not arguing it. I am just highlighting the flaws in your definition.

Golf is not a sport

Redskin in Canada wrote:Objective scoring? As in football where the judges make no calls that change the outcome of games? How timely with the Redskins this season!

Points are scored by completing a specific act on the field of play. I'm sorry you do not like my use of the word objective, but surely you would agree there is a big difference between competitions where points are given for a specific accomplishment and those where they are given based on merit?

Redskin in Canada wrote:But quite frankly, I do not feel that you can be persuaded. So, let us agree to disagree. I only judge things that I know something about from first hand experience but others may decide to do otherwise.

I am perfectly willing to be persuaded. And, I am willing to talk about this from whatever angle you would like. When JF came in and gave a dictionary definition, I stuck to that angle. Most of this time I've just been trying to get you to give an actual definition other than "because I said so."

Additionally, I'm not particularly attmepting to persuade anyone, but rather to engage in a friendly debate where one person (or group thereof) takes one side of an issue and another takes the other side. It's not a sport, but it is an interesting way to pass the time on the day before a holiday.

JansenFan wrote:Ok, I can accept you problem with the dictionary's definition, but that doesn't mean you can make up your own to suit your opinion and try to pass it off as an argument in your case against NASCAR and whether or not it is a sport.

No it does not. But, that doesn't change my definition.

Let's clear something up, the following is how I would differentiate between some of the activities we've mentioned here...

Examples of sports:
Hockey
Baseball
Soccer
Football

Examples of games:
chess
tag
capture the flag
poker
darts (which they also show on ESPN for some reason)

Examples of competitions:
Golf
Racing
Track & Field
competitive cheerleading
drum corps

I guess my point is that your "definition" is actually your opinion on the subject. The "official" definition is broad because what is or is not considered a sport is really at the discretion of each person, as can clearly be seen in this thread.

To be honest, I couldn't care less about nascar. I used to watch it in the 90's and even go to a few races here and there and if they folded up the tent and went NC tomorrow, I probably wouldn't notice.

I do however feel that nascar meets my personal qualifications of a sport. I guess the line of demarcation here is that you have a clear seperation of sport and competition, wheras I beleive there is a gray area between the two that allows for a broader interpretation of what goes where.

JansenFan wrote:I guess my point is that your "definition" is actually your opinion on the subject. The "official" definition is broad because what is or is not considered a sport is really at the discretion of each person, as can clearly be seen in this thread.

To be honest, I couldn't care less about nascar. I used to watch it in the 90's and even go to a few races here and there and if they folded up the tent and went NC tomorrow, I probably wouldn't notice.

I don't really have any interest in watching NASCAR, but I don't have anything against it. If I had the opportunity, though, I'd jump at the chance to drive one of those cars.

JansenFan wrote:I do however feel that nascar meets my personal qualifications of a sport. I guess the line of demarcation here is that you have a clear seperation of sport and competition, wheras I beleive there is a gray area between the two that allows for a broader interpretation of what goes where.

Well, a sport is a type of competition, so I guess that's a gray area in-and-of itself. However, most people who aren't already NASCAR fans probably don't consider it a sport.

I have a definition for what isn't a sport too:

Any activity that you can drink beer and smoke cigars while completing is not a sport.

For example, when my Dad was in the Marine Reserves and they'd have picnics and play horseshoes.

cvillehog wrote:For example, when my Dad was in the Marine Reserves and they'd have picnics and play horseshoes.

The sport here isn't the horseshoes, its sort of like dodgeball, because you have to dodge heavy metal objects thrown by drunk guys as they bounce towards you at 30 mph while you yourself are drunk and not sure which horseshoe you see is the real one.

Anything else unimportant to debate? It really does pass the time quite nicely.

JansenFan wrote:

cvillehog wrote:For example, when my Dad was in the Marine Reserves and they'd have picnics and play horseshoes.

The sport here isn't the horseshoes, its sort of like dodgeball, because you have to dodge heavy metal objects thrown by drunk guys as they bounce towards you at 30 mph while you yourself are drunk and not sure which horseshoe you see is the real one.

Anything else unimportant to debate? It really does pass the time quite nicely.

I don't know, but I only have 55 more minutes to kill, they're closing the office early today.

Yeah, we are closing at 300. That was the custom prior to our current administration, but since the latest CEO took over, it has been taboo even to ask about getting out early.

Now all of a sudden we are getting out early. Makes me wonder what's happening next week. Kind of like the calm before the storm.

Just so you know, I nicknamed him N. Ron <last name withheld to protect the, well, guilty I guess, or innocent {me}, whichever you prefer>

Since you guys need to pass the time, why not come to my house and rake leaves.




Is that a sport?