The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Deadskins wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:Once again if John Beck starts which I believe he will, Beck will be the 21st different starting QB for this team since 1993. That right there is a problem. We have a revolving door at the QB situation.

How do you know that Beck won't put an end too that?

jeremyroyce wrote:look how many years the Falcons were set back after they traded Brett Favre

That's just plain ridiculous. Favre was never even the starter in Atlanta. And the Falcons had never even had back to back winning seasons until last year. To say that they were set back by that trade is ludicrous.

Because Beck was let go by Bill Parcells, and Ozzie Newsome. Say whatever you want about the record of the Dolphins, regardless of the record when you get a chance to start you have to seize the opportunity and the fact that Beck did not make any type of impression speaks volumes. Even know that a team can have a poor record a good evaluator can say wow now that guy is pretty damn good. And one more thing about Beck and Grossman they have been too inconsistent and I'm not comfortable with either one of them starting. To get to Brett Favre, it isn't ridiculous, because they never gave him a chance and had they given him a chance I believe they never would have been set back as long as they were. Say, what you want but the Falcons made a mistake in not giving him a chance and traded away a hall of fame QB. Since Favre was traded in 1992 They went through 16 different starting QB'S until Matt Ryan started in 2008. Chris Miller, Wade Wilson, Billy Joe Tolliver, Bobby Hebert, Jeff George, Chris Chandler, Tony Graziani, Steve Deberg, Danny Kanell, Doug Johnson, Michael Vick, Kurt Kittner, Matt Schaub, Joey Harrington, Chris Redman, Byron Leftwich. You don't think that the Falcons could have used Brett Favre? Now that is just ridiculous.

RedskinsRule56 wrote:I guess I hate to admit that our starters looked good and we might win 5-8 games and be stuck with John Beck or Rex Grossman beyond 2011. Or we draft Barkley or Landry Jones and they end up not being anywhere near as good as Luck or even worse who we select busts. I would hate to see our franchise setback by another failed attempt at franchise QB. We have had this happen to many times, look at Heath Shuler, Patrick Ramsey and Jason Campbell we took each of them in the first round in hopes that they would be a franchise QB and they all failed.

Many Redskin fans (I include you) share your concerns about the failed attempts at finding a QB lately. As you know, the McNabb thing didn't help. It hurt to have seen Aaron Rodgers nearly fall within our reach in the 2005 draft, but I watched the game last night Colts and Pack and they did a short comparison of his mechanics in college and his mechanic now - world of difference. Franchise QBs can be developed. When I look at a guy like Beck ready to be thrown on the scrap heap of used QBs and see that this guy has new life, I can't help to think how many more QBs could have had their careers saved if they fell to the right team. How many successful QBs would have ended up like Beck if they hadn't been picked by the team in which they had success.

It would be great to have Andrew Luck, but having a QB that fits and manages this system along, pass protection, a running game and an attacking, smothering, turn-over causing defense is the formula for success. Shanny IS developing that formula.

For perspective: Schaub was a third round draft choice. He showed good signs of being NFL material in Atlanta, but it wasn't until his second year in this Offense did he become a "franchise" QB. Houston was tearing the league up in offense, but they could not make the play-offs. Without the defense, few mention Schaub's name as a top 5 QB in the league. Getting Luck would not seal the deal. You must have the defense - See Packers, Steelers, Patriots, and Colts.

This is really NOT going anywhere

Everybody understands the CRITICAL importance of getting a great QB

WE WILL

ANYONE that points out the failures of this franchise to bring in that QB is pointing to a FO that is NOT here anymore

NO QB was available that this FO thought worth bringing in AT THIS TIME

IT IS VERY EVIDENT TO SOME OF US THAT WE ARE IMPROVING ALL ASPECTS OF THIS FRANCHISE

this FO WILL get a great QB and have the rest of the team ready for him - give it time



If you want the Redskins to lose or have a terrible season - YOU ARE NOT A REDSKINS FAN

Leave us to our misery

Matt Schaub isn't a top 5 QB and I do not think he would be considered one even if the Texans had a better D. He has not proven that he is better than Brady, Peyton Manning, Brees, Rivers, Big Ben, Rodgers, Ryan, I would put Schaub 8th, followed by Flacco, Then you have in no particular order Bradford, Stafford, Freeman, Romo, and Dog Killer.

Schaub is a very good QB but he is not elite. Obviously teams like the ones you named Pittsburgh, Indy and NE have many elements that contribute to them being a contender every year but it all starts at top with their front office and their respective QB on the field.

Skins Jock what makes you so certain where you make it seem like landing a franchise QB is so easy? They do not grow on trees. We have the chance to land the highest rated QB prospect since Peyton Manning. Andrew Luck is as close to a lock of being a great QB out of any QB's entering the draft since Peyton.

As I have stated many times before most likely we will be taking a QB as our round pick in the 2012 draft. What if we draft Jones or Barkley and they bust and then set our franchise back even further? Do you really want that? Or what if Jones or Barkley end up being just ok and not a franchise QB? Why not get Luck and build around him. Luck is not going to bust mark my words. He is going to be not only good but he will be great as long as you give him the necessary pieces that any QB needs to be successful. Which are an o-line that can protect him, a solid RB and weapons to throw too a combination of WR's and TE.

Sorry winning 5-8 games this year for us fans is pointless in helping the future of this franchise being successful over the next 10-15 years and becoming not only a playoff contender but eventually a SB contender. Look at the big picture. The next 10-15 years are more important one season. Andrew Luck is the answer. Do not mess this up Redskins.

This FO will bring in a great QB

MORE IMPORTANTLY - they will bring in a QB that will become GREAT for this franchise and will suit the players around him AND the offensive system that Mike & Kyle want to run here

I understand that some don't think that's going to happen

I just cannot fathom not wanting this team to do well as soon as possile

Think about this - IF this franchise doesn't do well - a lot of the work that has been done will have to be undone - someone said that Beck has no chance of being even a good QB BECAUSE Bill Parcells & Ozzie Newsome passed on him
What Beck has shown so far is that Bill Parcells and Ozzie Newsome were DEAD WRONG about John Beck and maybe Mike & Bruce are better at 'seeing' the potential in other players and how to build franchises

so we suck for Luck and he comes in here and we have to get rid of all the players and coaches because someone else wants to run something else and start off anew

THAT SUCKS

This FO has more chance of making this franchise better than any suck for Luck group do

they're here AND they're making this franchise better

Skins Jock Andrew Luck is mobile and can throw on the run, and out of the pocket extremely well. He averaged 7 yards per rush last year. That is the staple of a Shanahan QB. He fit's Shanahan's system. Not to mention he has all the other tools and intangibles. He is a flat out beast. Please tell me what great franchise QB Shanahan is going to land if we do not get Luck?

Also Honestly Shanahan isnt going to be our head coach for more than maybe 3-4 more years I think he is grooming Kyle to eventually coach the Redskins when he retires.

SkinsJock do you know how you can instantly make this franchise a lot better-- GET ANDREW LUCK! Come on now..

We all want Andrew Luck - TELL ME SOMETHING

HOW can ANYONE guarantee we're going to get him

some of you guys think that all this franchise needs to do is just draft this guy

what if he pulls a hissy fit like Eli and refuses to show up for Mike or whoever is here

Mike will not be the HC here if this franchise is that bad



IN CASE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND - because you seem to not know

EVERYBODY WANTS ANDREW LUCK - that's not the issue here

NOT WANTING THIS FRANCHISE TO BE AS GOOD AS THEY CAN BE is the issue

AND then claiming -"it's all for the good of the franchise" is absolutely IDIOTIC


I'll tell you another lie - 'change we can believe in' - how'd THAT work out for this country

RedskinsRule56 wrote:SkinsJock do you know how you can instantly make this franchise a lot better-- GET ANDREW LUCK! Come on now..

are you not understanding what I'm posting? - Please clarify

Who gives a crap if Mike Shanahan is our head coach if Luck is here? And btw I think that is an incorrect statement. Shanahan isnt our long term coach anyways.

So Skins Jock if you want Andrew Luck there is only one guaranteed way to get him. That is to have the worst record in the NFL this season. So therefore you need to root for us to lose to get Luck.

I don't care who the HC is

I just want this franchise to be better and RIGHT NOW these guys are doing it

what are you missing

tell me how we can get better by becoming worse - just add Andrew Luck?

This franchise might have Luck as the QB but it will ONLY be consistently good if we surround him with the right coaches and players

We have an FO that can do that - there are a lot of guys that might not


I don't know why you guys want to be a part of a Redskins message board

You're not REAL Redskins fans - no REAL fan wants their franchise to not do well for a single player

go back to your own stupid franchise - leave ours alone - we're happy with this FO

RedskinsRule56 wrote:So Skins Jock if you want Andrew Luck there is only one guaranteed way to get him. That is to have the worst record in the NFL this season. So therefore you need to root for us to lose to get Luck.

I'm sorry - there's no way I'm discussing this further with you - there's no point

have fun with your real team, whoever they are - see ya

Skins Jock my team is the Redskins you clown.

DIE THREAD DIE

DIE THREAD DIE

nope this thread is not going to die.

RedskinsRule56 wrote:I guess I hate to admit that our starters looked good and we might win 5-8 games

And the backtracking begins . . .

First it was that we'd likely go 2-14, with a 4 win max. Then I saw talk of 4-6 games. Now it's 5-8 games.

Words like "maximum" or (in another thread) "no chance" don't mean much when you are capable of turning the assessment on its head after only one half of football.

How about this: make predictions when you have something to back them up with.

Irn Bru- I said our maximum wins was 4-6 look back through the messages and you will see. No backtracking.

I mean, a spread of 2-8 wins is 7 games, or nearly 50% of a season's total. Ridiculous.

Imagine if I posed as a prediction guru and said "I think the Redskins will win 11 games, but they might falter a little bit and only win 5."

RedskinsRule56 wrote:Irn Bru- I said our maximum wins was 4-6 look back through the messages and you will see. No backtracking.

Look at the post above this one. I quote you directly contradicting the 4-6 prediction:

RR56 wrote:I guess I hate to admit that our starters looked good and we might win 5-8 games

This is bordering on the absurd, man. At least keep the story straight between a couple of posts only minutes apart.

I take back the 5-8 wins-- I will stay with 4-6 wins max. Regardless even if we did miraculously win 8 games that does nothing to help the future of this franchise. It will only hurt us as we will lose on out Andrew Luck.

Regardless even if we did miraculously win 8 games that does nothing to help the future of this franchise. It will only hurt us as we will lose on out Andrew Luck. Irn-Bru does winning anywhere between 4-8 games make you happy? I mean really? It does absolutely nothing. Win 2 games get Luck and then we get to finally have an amazing QB.

RedskinsRule56 wrote:

RedskinsRule56 wrote:I take back the 5-8 wins-- I will stay with 4-6 wins max. Regardless even if we did miraculously win 8 games that does nothing to help the future of this franchise. It will only hurt us as we will lose on out Andrew Luck.

Irn-Bru does winning anywhere between 4-8 games make you happy? I mean really? It does absolutely nothing. Win 2 games get Luck and then we get to finally have an amazing QB.

(1) Raw win totals are not the whole picture.
(2) This is a team that's being rebuilt, so progress on the field demonstrated by execution is part of my considerations.

With those two provisos in mind: 8 wins would probably make me happy, yes, provided it was accompanied by visible progress on the field — the kind of progress we've been seeing throughout the entire preseason.

Under 8 wins . . . no, I wouldn't be happy with that, unless that progress was still there and it was clear we just caught some bad breaks.

As for throwing the season and only trying to win about 2 games . . . well, that argument has been demolished so many times it's not worth repeating here, IMO.