The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

PAPDOG67 wrote:Karl Joseph would looks nice in the Burgandy & Gold. I also wouldn't mind either Ryan Kelly (C), or Chris Jones (DT). A lot of people have us linked to Reggie Ragland (MLB). I wouldn't mind him, but think you can find a MLB later in the draft. I'm thinking Scooby Wright

I've seen Karl Joseph as a popular pick for us lately, just not feeling hyped about that one. I feel like 1) Scot can definitely find guys to play safety in the later rounds, 2) DL will help those guys in the secondary more than a first round safety pick and 3) am I wrong or does safety seem like one of the most often injured positions in the league?

I'm with you on Ryan Kelly and Chris Jones, though its possible Jones could still be around in the 2d round IMO.

Here's my top 5 I'd be excited to see based on my completely uninformed opinion:

1) Ryan Kelly C Alabama
2) Vernon Butler DT Louisiana Tech
3) Reggie Ragland ILB Alabama
4) Austin Johnson DT Penn State (probably only if we trade down from 21)
5) Laquon Treadwell WR Mississippi (my wildcard pick)

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:You won't be saying that about the Eagles and Rams if they just found their franchise QB.

more power to them but deciding to make these trades makes me have very little confidence that they have a clue

I don't blame them for trying. Truth is if you don't have a franchise QB you're just spinning your wheels. We all know this well.

My question though, is there a historical example where this type of trade has worked out? Team traded away picks to move up for their QB? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Eli Manning.

The Eli Manning deal was not a trade of picks. He had already been selected by the Chargers with their first pick. The Giants drafted Phillip Rivers... then, the teams traded players... so, it really isn't an example of moving up for your quarterback. I believe that Manning had made it clear that he was not signing with the Chargers ( a weak market for endorsement contracts)... I'm sure there was no hint of tampering by anyone...

Totally agree that getting a franchise QB is a huge deal - It's possible that one of these guys might be that but then you have to factor in that the same guys that traded for these 2 QBs that not many with any sense think will become future greats are going to assemble the rest of the pieces

I'm just V biased towards taking the best available player in the top rounds of this draft rather than taking a gamble like these FOs did

Countertrey wrote:The Eli Manning deal was not a trade of picks. He had already been selected by the Chargers with their first pick. The Giants drafted Phillip Rivers... then, the teams traded players... so, it really isn't an example of moving up for your quarterback. I believe that Manning had made it clear that he was not signing with the Chargers ( a weak market for endorsement contracts)... I'm sure there was no hint of tampering by anyone...

hah yeah I remember. This is all kind of a technicality though because of the weird way it went down. The teams still basically swapped positions #1 and #4, and the Giants sent the Chargers a 3d rounder + the next year's 1st and 5th round picks. Its just a trade that happened after the pick was made instead of before.

SkinsJock wrote:Totally agree that getting a franchise QB is a huge deal - It's possible that one of these guys might be that but then you have to factor in that the same guys that traded for these 2 QBs that not many with any sense think will become future greats are going to assemble the rest of the pieces

Trading up for a QB in this draft just seems to me to be a huge gamble and therefore STUPID on the part of both these front offices

I'm just V biased towards taking the best available player in the top rounds of this draft rather than taking a gamble like these FOs did

Oh I'm with you man. Redskins fans have every right to be skeptical of that type of trade where you're giving away a lot of picks. Just saying I don't think its completely stupid to trade up for a QB. My personal opinion is that if you're going to do it, you'd better be a stable team with enough depth to pull it off. 4-12 teams need not apply.

Not to mention... Wentz and Goff? I think you've written before that they're not in your top 10, and I would agree. This is not Winston and Mariotta. Its a QB from North Dakota and a junior who didn't exactly win a lot of games at Cal. Good luck.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Totally agree that getting a franchise QB is a huge deal - It's possible that one of these guys might be that but then you have to factor in that the same guys that traded for these 2 QBs that not many with any sense think will become future greats are going to assemble the rest of the pieces

Trading up for a QB in this draft just seems to me to be a huge gamble and therefore STUPID on the part of both these front offices

I'm just V biased towards taking the best available player in the top rounds of this draft rather than taking a gamble like these FOs did

Oh I'm with you man. Redskins fans have every right to be skeptical of that type of trade where you're giving away a lot of picks. Just saying I don't think its completely stupid to trade up for a QB. My personal opinion is that if you're going to do it, you'd better be a stable team with enough depth to pull it off. 4-12 teams need not apply.

Not to mention... Wentz and Goff? I think you've written before that they're not in your top 10, and I would agree. This is not Winston and Mariotta. Its a QB from North Dakota and a junior who didn't exactly win a lot of games at Cal. Good luck.

It's rare that the first selected quarterback actually has the talent to justify the selection... but because they are quarterbacks, there is an automatic premium... You can't win games without a competent quarterback. They are coveted to the point that teams will take risks far beyond the demonstrated value of the player. Just the way it is. If you want to draft a prime quarterback, you overpay... even if you aren't sure he's prime. The Tom Brady's (and, hopefully, the Kirk Cousins, if I may be so bold) are the exception. More often than not, the first quarterback taken ends up as a disaster, or a journeyman. The Peyton Mannings are very rare. I consider Eli to be a good journeyman, who has had some of the luckiest catches in the history of the NFL.

I can see Denver moving up to take a QB, offering their 1st,2nd, and a lower round next year?

Countertrey wrote:It's rare that the first selected quarterback actually has the talent to justify the selection... but because they are quarterbacks, there is an automatic premium... You can't win games without a competent quarterback. They are coveted to the point that teams will take risks far beyond the demonstrated value of the player. Just the way it is. If you want to draft a prime quarterback, you overpay... even if you aren't sure he's prime. The Tom Brady's (and, hopefully, the Kirk Cousins, if I may be so bold) are the exception. More often than not, the first quarterback taken ends up as a disaster, or a journeyman. The Peyton Mannings are very rare. I consider Eli to be a good journeyman, who has had some of the luckiest catches in the history of the NFL.

Yeah I get it, and I understand why teams will take the risk.

Funny about Eli btw. Looking back on that trade I have to ask, if the Giants could do it again don't you think Rivers would have been the better selection? I know its hard to say that because Eli won SBs. But I'd take Rivers over Manning.

riggofan wrote:Funny about Eli btw. Looking back on that trade I have to ask, if the Giants could do it again don't you think Rivers would have been the better selection? I know its hard to say that because Eli won SBs. But I'd take Rivers over Manning.

I agree - admittedly I'm not a Sheli fan ...

riggofan wrote:

Countertrey wrote:It's rare that the first selected quarterback actually has the talent to justify the selection... but because they are quarterbacks, there is an automatic premium... You can't win games without a competent quarterback. They are coveted to the point that teams will take risks far beyond the demonstrated value of the player. Just the way it is. If you want to draft a prime quarterback, you overpay... even if you aren't sure he's prime. The Tom Brady's (and, hopefully, the Kirk Cousins, if I may be so bold) are the exception. More often than not, the first quarterback taken ends up as a disaster, or a journeyman. The Peyton Mannings are very rare. I consider Eli to be a good journeyman, who has had some of the luckiest catches in the history of the NFL.

Yeah I get it, and I understand why teams will take the risk.

Funny about Eli btw. Looking back on that trade I have to ask, if the Giants could do it again don't you think Rivers would have been the better selection? I know its hard to say that because Eli won SBs. But I'd take Rivers over Manning.

In a heartbeat. The Ginas didn't get to, or win those SBs because of Sheli. And the way he did his crybaby "I won't play for San Diego" thing still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

riggofan wrote:Funny about Eli btw. Looking back on that trade I have to ask, if the Giants could do it again don't you think Rivers would have been the better selection? I know its hard to say that because Eli won SBs. But I'd take Rivers over Manning.

Definitely. I wouldn't hesitate to take Rivers if we were redoing the draft.