2-14 = Andrew Luck Our Future QB

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:32 pm

I have got to get back on my meds :lol:

these trolls and fans of other teams are driving me crazy :wink:

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:35 pm

WE ALL WANT A GREAT QB IS CORRECT WHICH IS WHY I WANT ANDREW LUCK. END OF STORY

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:36 pm

WHO CARES next year if we won 2 games in 2011 if we get Andrew Luck and he is a beast?

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:41 pm

RedskinsRule56 wrote:Didn't many posters on this board project 9-10 wins last year and we ended up with 6.

What's that supposed to be proving?

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:42 pm

jeremyroyce wrote:What do we have someone on this site that was appointed judge and jury and he decides what's extreme and what's not?

You REALLY don't get the idea of a message board. We are all here to be judge and jury as well as being judged and being juried (:hmm: juried?)

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:45 pm

It's trying to prove that many posters on this board are overly optimistic and incorrect about season win loss predictions by quite a bit. Last year I predicted we would win less than 7 games and we did. I have stated our max win total is 4-6 games for this season I would rather win the 2 games and get the #1 pick and draft Andrew Luck.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:45 pm

absinthe1023 wrote:You would really like to see the community respond with rational discourse rather than blind homerism

What a stupid post

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:47 pm

[quote="RedskinsRule56"]... how would you all feel that in 2011 we won 7 or 8 meaningless games and missed out on Andrew Luck? That is why I am endorsing sacrificing one season which is already a rebuilding season to being with for future success over the long haul.

I have a BIG problem with these 2 items

NO regular season game is MEANINGLESS

NOBODY can say "I am a fan of the REDSKINS" and then say that they ENDORSE LOSING

YOU are a lot of things BUT you are NOT a Redskins fan

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:48 pm

RedskinsRule56 wrote:It's trying to prove that many posters on tis board are overly optimistic and incorrect about season win loss predictions by quite a bit. Last year I predicted we would win less than 7 games and we did. I have stated our max win total is 4-6 games for this season I would rather win the 2 games and get the #1 pick and draft Andrew Luck.

Most people are predicting 6-8 wins, which is way, way ridiculous, so you make that point by saying we're going to go 2-14 and you're rooting against us. Wow, point made... Not....

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:50 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
RedskinsRule56 wrote:... how would you all feel that in 2011 we won 7 or 8 meaningless games and missed out on Andrew Luck? That is why I am endorsing sacrificing one season which is already a rebuilding season to being with for future success over the long haul

I have a BIG problem with these 2 items

NO regular season game is MEANINGLESS

Agreed Jock. To lose 14 or 15 games also means to destroy everything that we've done for one player, and then have to rebuild a team around them. It's a bad plan to accomplish a bad idea.

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:52 pm

SkinsJock Please tell me what winning 7 or 8 games this year does? We will still miss the playoffs and still not have a franchise QB. In addition we would still be stuck in mediocrity. Sometimes you have to take a few step backwards before going forwards. Look at the Falcons, Saints, Rams, Bucs, Lions etc all have drastically improved and have brighter futures right now. One of the major reasons is that they each landed a franchise QB.

jeremyroyce · Post by **jeremyroyce** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:53 pm

absinthe1023 wrote:
jeremyroyce wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
jeremyroyce wrote:he and anybody else on this board does have their opinion and they should be able to post their opinion...

Totally agree

jeremyroyce wrote:...without getting trashed

Totally disagree. Explain why he gets to post any opinion he wants, including trashing the team this board is set up for fans of, and we're required to be silent. I do not get that at all in any way and you keep repeating but not explaining why he has the right to express his view and we do not have the right to express ours.

Dude, I'm all for people coming on here and expressing themselves. My problem is people getting trashed for having an opinion, or better yet expressing themselves. Instead of trashing someone or questioning someone's fan hood that you have never met, why not initiate a reasonable conversation? You say that he was trashing the team, maybe to you he is, but maybe to him he wasn't. Look, I saw one of his posts that I don't agree with, however I do think that he makes some good valid points in his other posts. To me most of it makes sense and I see where he is going with it.

I was going to craft a reply to those users who responded to part of my post, but you already said just what I was thinking. You would really like to see the community respond with rational discourse rather than blind homerism. This is year #20 without a championship, and, despite any incremental improvements, this team is in no position to compete meaningfully with the league's elite. There are many reasons for this, but one of the largest is the lack of a true franchise QB. One player, even a QB, doesn't guarantee success, but it is the most proven way in recent league history to begin the march towards respectability and eventually another championship. Isn't that what we all want to see?

Thank you. Yes, I want this team to be a power house team, that other teams are afraid to play. I want this team to win super bowls and be like teams like the Steelers, Packers etc. However, This team has lacked a franchise QB for years. If John Beck starts this year he will be the 21st different starting QB for this team since 1993. That is one reason why this team is dysfunctional. Everything that you do is a gamble nothing is a for sure thing, but I do know one for sure thing. This Redskins team NEEDS a franchise QB and until they can get that established get used to mediocrity.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:55 pm

I have no problem with you OR ANYONE not liking where we are or our chances for getting better under this FO

I have a HUGE problem with someone thinking that we'd be better off losing ANY regular season game

There is NO WAY that a REAL fan wants their team to lose ANY game

YOU and ANYONE that feels that way ARE NOT FANS OF THIS REDSKINS TEAM - NO WAY

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:05 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
jeremyroyce wrote:What do we have someone on this site that was appointed judge and jury and he decides what's extreme and what's not?

You REALLY don't get the idea of a message board. We are all here to be judge and jury as well as being judged and being juried (:hmm: juried?)[/quote]

Works for me.

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:28 pm

This thread makes me laugh. Nobody here knows how many games we will win. RR56 obviously wants us to lose all of our games for some inconceivable reason. Having the worst record might land us Andrew Luck, but what free agents would want to sign here and play for a team that won 1-2 games the year previous? The coaches would probably all be fired and who is out there that you see as a better option to coach at this point? It doesn't make sense. If the Redskins really want Andrew Luck, they will find a way to get him. You don't have to have the worst record to obtain the top pick (trade!!). I don't see any good with losing most/all of our games, and I truly believe we won't even come close to losing all of our games. This team lost 5 games by 3 points or less last year with one of the worst defenses, worst running game, and one of the worst special teams in the league. No way we are worse than last year, not to mention there are plenty of winnable games on the schedule.

TL;DR - Losing is not a good way to build a team

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:55 pm

RedskinsRule56 wrote:How about I play out a hypothetical scenario for everyone. Lets say the Redskins win 7 or even 8 games this season and John Beck/Rex Grossman play ok but clearly are not capable of being a franchise QB. I do feel both will play this year. Grossman has already shown in his previous 9 NFL seasons that he is not a franchise QB. Then we draft Landry Jones in the first round ....................

We might actually win 7 or 8 games. Let's suppose we do. Why on Earth would we draft Landry Jones in the first round - because he's the 2nd or 3rd best college QB that year?

That is absurd.

We'd probably start trading down again.

HarleyHog wrote:If it was late into the season and he was hoping we lost the last few for drafting advantage, I could buy into him being a fan with the long-term future at heart

I actually did this at the end of Zorn's last year. Once we were out of it I wanted to be as bad as possible to ensure Vinnie's ouster. Please don't question my fanhood anyone. I have scalped to get into many many games since 1977.

DarthMonk

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:01 pm

Ok Darth Monk lets never try to land a franchise QB lets roll out there with Beck and Grossman for the next 5 years. Is this some sort of joke?

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:19 pm

RedskinsRule56 wrote:It's trying to prove that many posters on this board are overly optimistic and incorrect about season win loss predictions by quite a bit. Last year I predicted we would win less than 7 games and we did. I have stated our max win total is 4-6 games for this season I would rather win the 2 games and get the #1 pick and draft Andrew Luck.

To you, is there anything unethical about throwing a season, if it could be in in Pro Football?

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:26 pm

The Redskins do not need to tank they tank naturally.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:37 pm

RedskinsRule56 wrote:SkinsJock Please tell me what winning 7 or 8 games this year does? We will still miss the playoffs and still not have a franchise QB. In addition we would still be stuck in mediocrity. Sometimes you have to take a few step backwards before going forwards. Look at the Falcons, Saints, Rams, Bucs, Lions etc all have drastically improved and have brighter futures right now. One of the major reasons is that they each landed a franchise QB.

No team begins the season to win 7 or 8 games. Every team out the gate seriously believes that they can go to the Super Bowl. TB coming off a 3-13 season and KC coming off a 4-12 season were the surprise teams of last year. Who will it be next year? Look at the Bears, last season. At one point, Cutler was sacked darn near every play and we beat them with no offense, BUT they end up in the NFC championship game.

AND the Redskins? NOT eliminated until after game 13. Everyone knows that once the play-offs begin, it's anyone's game. Ask the Saints about round 1 of the play-offs.

Who is your favorite player(s)? Why don't you have a hypothetical interview with that player or players and ask them about winning the 6 meaningless games that they won last year and then sell them your Suck for Luck strategy. Post it on this thread. This would be an entertaining read. Remember, it's hypothetical - have at it.

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:43 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
RedskinsRule56 wrote:How about I play out a hypothetical scenario for everyone. Lets say the Redskins win 7 or even 8 games this season and John Beck/Rex Grossman play ok but clearly are not capable of being a franchise QB. I do feel both will play this year. Grossman has already shown in his previous 9 NFL seasons that he is not a franchise QB. Then we draft Landry Jones in the first round and he ends up busting and or being an average QB. Lets say for arguments sake that Buffalo gets Andrew Luck and Andrew Luck lives up his expectations and hype and Buffalo builds around him and becomes respectable again and makes the playoffs within a few years. Andrew Luck becomes the next great QB. Meanwhile the Redskins give Landry Jones 2-3 years to show if he is a franchise worthy QB or not. Jones fails and we have to start all over again at QB.

If this happens how would all feel that in 2011 we won 7 or 8 meaningless games and missed out on Andrew Luck? That is why I am endorsing sacrificing one season which is already a rebuilding season to being with for future success over the long haul. I am talking about 10-15 years of being a perennial playoff contender with a QB that always gives you a chance to win. What Redskins wouldn't want that?

Though I like the way you posed the question and that you gave reasons for your desire, hypothetically, no I would not want any coach of the team I love to go into a season with a desire to tank games for the sake of drafting a potential star QB in the manner of Peyton Manning.

I fully expect to see Andrew Luck having Peyton like success in the NFL if he gets with the right team. Though, I do not share your gloom of 10 -15 more years of doom, for arguments sake, I will gladly accept the 10-15 years over a season that looks like Shanny tanked it. I will not feel at all bad about seeing Luck tearing it up out there even ifhe beats us. I still believe that there is much integrity left in this NFL. This isn't boxing.

Vinve Lombardi said, "Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing." The context in which Vince said that was winning by hard work not by cheating. I want my team to win by hard work. The Redskins will win in this manner. You and I don't agree on that and that is ok, by me.

Once again, thanks for posting the question in the manner in which you did.

That is a very popular misquote. What he said was "Winning isn't everything, but the WILL to win is the only thing".
I think the correct quote strengthens your argument.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:53 pm

jeremyroyce wrote:That is one reason why this team is dysfunctional.

Last year's team can easily be labeled as dysfunctional. What are you basing dysfunctinalism on this year?

That Beck or Grossman is the QB. Who would you rather have then as QB. McNabb who won't run the offense as it was meant to be? He was part of the dysfunction. Regardless of whose fault, you say it was for McNabb's failure - McNabb who is an improvisor can not function well in this offense. Do you Ponder, Dalton, Gabbert? A long term rookie QBs. Dalton looks horrible so far and fortunately for Ponder and Gabbert they do not have to start. Do you know better than Shanny as to whether these guys are the right QB for this Offense? Do you Orton with his 9 million dollar contract? What are we suposed to do with him if Shanny has his eyes on a college QB for next year's draft. Trade him like Denver did. Who should we have gotten after the lock out? Vince Young? He is tearing it up on the bench in Philly being out played by the 3rd teamer. Marc Bulger? - Retired. Hasselbeck? Stinking it up in Tenessee right now - having trouble learning to the O. Guess whose Offense is also similar to ours besides Houston.

The Shanny's are going to rid out the season with Beck or Grossman. Based on what we got out of the QB position last year, it won't take much to improve on that. Grossman in his three starts matched McNabb', the pro bowler's 13 starts in average per game stats.

Harping over not having a QB makes no sense when the coach has not settled on Beck or Grossman a THE QB - You and a couple of other say he will falter - that's the way YOU CHOOSE to see it - it doesn't make you right. I bet you were one of those guys that said that Grossman would implode in is three starts last year - did for a half in Dallas but get this - he hadn't started a game in how long?

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:57 pm

yupchagee wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
RedskinsRule56 wrote:How about I play out a hypothetical scenario for everyone. Lets say the Redskins win 7 or even 8 games this season and John Beck/Rex Grossman play ok but clearly are not capable of being a franchise QB. I do feel both will play this year. Grossman has already shown in his previous 9 NFL seasons that he is not a franchise QB. Then we draft Landry Jones in the first round and he ends up busting and or being an average QB. Lets say for arguments sake that Buffalo gets Andrew Luck and Andrew Luck lives up his expectations and hype and Buffalo builds around him and becomes respectable again and makes the playoffs within a few years. Andrew Luck becomes the next great QB. Meanwhile the Redskins give Landry Jones 2-3 years to show if he is a franchise worthy QB or not. Jones fails and we have to start all over again at QB.

If this happens how would all feel that in 2011 we won 7 or 8 meaningless games and missed out on Andrew Luck? That is why I am endorsing sacrificing one season which is already a rebuilding season to being with for future success over the long haul. I am talking about 10-15 years of being a perennial playoff contender with a QB that always gives you a chance to win. What Redskins wouldn't want that?

Though I like the way you posed the question and that you gave reasons for your desire, hypothetically, no I would not want any coach of the team I love to go into a season with a desire to tank games for the sake of drafting a potential star QB in the manner of Peyton Manning.

I fully expect to see Andrew Luck having Peyton like success in the NFL if he gets with the right team. Though, I do not share your gloom of 10 -15 more years of doom, for arguments sake, I will gladly accept the 10-15 years over a season that looks like Shanny tanked it. I will not feel at all bad about seeing Luck tearing it up out there even ifhe beats us. I still believe that there is much integrity left in this NFL. This isn't boxing.

Vinve Lombardi said, "Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing." The context in which Vince said that was winning by hard work not by cheating. I want my team to win by hard work. The Redskins will win in this manner. You and I don't agree on that and that is ok, by me.

Once again, thanks for posting the question in the manner in which you did.

That is a very popular misquote. What he said was "Winning isn't everything, but the WILL to win is the only thing".
I think the correct quote strengthens your argument.

Right you are! Thanks and it does strengthen my point.

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:04 pm

RedOne Grossman was on pace for 40 turnovers if you spread his stats over a 16 game season. What are you trying to say about Grossman? Grossman and Beck both blow. I am glad we didnt pick up any of the other QB's via FA, Trade or in the Draft. I want Andrew Luck duh..

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:09 pm

RedskinsRule56 wrote:The Redskins do not need to tank they tank naturally.

Ok, do explain how they will naturally lose two games this year, when this franchise hasn't lost 14 regular games in a season and a Shanny coached team has never lost 14 games in a season.

Even if you go back to last season and break down the 6 wins and conclude that a bounce hear or a non call here would have left the Skins 0-16, it doesn't work that way. Law of averages says that you get some balls your way. On the flip side of the game 6 losses could have had the ball bounce our way and the call made and the Redskins win 6 more games and be 12-4, BUT it doesn't work that either. You only get some balls your way. The better teams get more balls their way and it is luck or averages, they make it happen. Better teams when more of their close games than they lose.

The Redskins were not a good team last year, but they were not as bad as you make them out to be. Despite having a 31st ranked defense (BAD), they managed to be competitive in 14 of 16 games. The critical nose tackle position has been upgrade. YOU say, he cannot play it, but he is still an upgrade over last year. Bowen? YOU say is untested, but he is still an upgrade over Golston. Curious did you really do your research on Bowen, he fared very well in place of Spears for 9 games last year.

Without the rant how about breaking down for us - position by position - last year vs this year and show me where we are worse than this year then last.