The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Hogster wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Yea, I only get in these arguments because people say I'm wrong. Otherwise, I would just chill and hope Williams develops the way Shanny thinks he can.

Dude, the point is that you're making flagrant assumptions and stating them as fact.

Saying that right now Trent Williams is not as good a pass blocker as Okung is not a flagrant assumption. It IS Fact. If you don't believe me, believe any scout in the world. Does he have more upside? Possibly.

If you badly needed a car, and your wife, girlfriend, significant other or whatever, bought you a BMW. Would you go outside and say "Ahhh, I don't like this choice. BMW's are good and all, but Mercedes is MUCH better. I don't like this car. Everyone knows Benz's are better! What were you thinking!!?

Shut up and ride.

Bad analogy Hogster, Redskins already have a BMW.. big mike williams

Just kiddin man just kiddin

brad7686 wrote:Saying that right now Trent Williams is not as good a pass blocker as Okung is not a flagrant assumption. It IS Fact

And yet, not once before this post did you ever state this as your position. And while it may not be as flagrant as what you actually said, it is completely irrelevant

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Saying that right now Trent Williams is not as good a pass blocker as Okung is not a flagrant assumption. It IS Fact

And yet, not once before this post did you ever state this as your position. And while it may not be as flagrant as what you actually said, it is completely irrelevant

Is it irrelevant

If all an OT had to do was pass block then Okung would probably be the better choice. However, half or more of the offensive play calls will likely be runs so we have to evaluate talent on both aspects of the position.

Do I think Mike Vick is the best at running from the QB position ever? Yes
Do I think Mike Vick is the greatest QB ever? No...Big NO.

brad7686 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Saying that right now Trent Williams is not as good a pass blocker as Okung is not a flagrant assumption. It IS Fact

And yet, not once before this post did you ever state this as your position. And while it may not be as flagrant as what you actually said, it is completely irrelevant

Is it irrelevant

An agreement, now lets stop this bickering and talk about something that IS relevant.

If we were a 100% 3/4 defense, would you be pissed if we were picking a 4/3 DE? It just doesn't make sense. I think what the coaches did was pick the right guy to fit the system. I'm happy that we're picking players that fit as opposed to picking the best guy who may or may not fit your scheme - which is what we've done in the recent past and it hasn't really worked for us too well.

brad7686 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Saying that right now Trent Williams is not as good a pass blocker as Okung is not a flagrant assumption. It IS Fact

And yet, not once before this post did you ever state this as your position. And while it may not be as flagrant as what you actually said, it is completely irrelevant

Is it irrelevant

Well, it would be completely relevant if instead of the NFL draft they were picking sides for a skins versus shirts pick up game this afternoon. I understand that wasn't the plan though.

I understand the pick is justified by saying Williams better fits the Redskins scheme. However, your scheme needs to be able to address Ware, Tuck and Osi and Williams is an inferior pass blocker. Shoul have taken Okung, it was a no brainer.

There's a little phrase we call "CUT BLOCK" that will take care of that. I don't like it b/c I've had 4 knee op's but it's been shown to work. Also, we're going to be pulling a lot of guys like Guards, etc. I'm not too worried about it and I'm sure they factored in those DE's & OLB's.

If Rabach goes down, 3/5ths of our O-line will be Williamses.

hey "Okung".. are you a Skins fan or just an OKung fan? Just curious.. I'm not going anywhere else with it, just wondering real quick

langleyparkjoe wrote:hey "Okung".. are you a Skins fan or just an OKung fan? Just curious.. I'm not going anywhere else with it, just wondering real quick

It's very suspicious, isn't it? And his account was created draft day.

1st - it's not Russel
2nd - He's an Okung fan

What the heck are yall talking about

Gibbs4Life wrote:What the heck are yall talking about

Person named "Okung" on the thread.. he was just stating his feelings regarding the draft. I just wondered was he a Skins fan or just an Okung fan. He's cool do'h, I was just curious. Seems like he's more of an Okung guy vs Skins guy do'h.

langleyparkjoe wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:What the heck are yall talking about

Person named "Okung" on the thread.. he was just stating his feelings regarding the draft. I just wondered was he a Skins fan or just an Okung fan. He's cool do'h, I was just curious. Seems like he's more of an Okung guy vs Skins guy do'h.

Probably one of the existing posters here, who wanted another account to gripe about the draft from. Rather than be up front and honest he needs a 2nd account to hide behind. Just my

Almost every football analyst agrees that the difference in overall talent between Williams and Okung is small. Williams has more upside and fits the ZBS better. Okung is more ready to start today because he has more polished technique.

Shanahan values athleticism for the ZBS but also wants good driving run blockers who can get to the 2nd level to engage LB's. Williams is superior to Okung in all of the facets that Shanahan values. Clearly a better fit.

If Foerster is as good an OL coach as they think he is, Williams will be in a Pro Bowl before Okung. Also, Seattle, if they had the opportunity likely would have drafted Williams over Okung too.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:You want every year to be 1992

Not me. I want every year to be 1991.

How about this list...?

DeMarcus Ware
Mario Williams
Chris Long
Clay Mathews
Dewight Freeney/Robert Mathis
Julius Peppers/Adewale Ogunleye
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jevon Kearse
Jared Allen
Osi Umenyiori/Mathias Kiwanuka
Aaron Kampman
Trent Cole/Darryl Tapp

not to mention a couple of the the top Defensive Ends taken in this draft... Jason Pierre-Paul and Brandon Graham

This is the partial list of pass rushers Trent Williams wil have to contend with this season... he better get in camp early...

USAFSkinFan wrote:How about this list...?

DeMarcus Ware
Mario Williams
Chris Long
Clay Mathews
Dewight Freeney/Robert Mathis
Julius Peppers/Adewale Ogunleye
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jevon Kearse
Jared Allen
Osi Umenyiori/Mathias Kiwanuka
Aaron Kampman
Trent Cole/Darryl Tapp

not to mention a couple of the the top Defensive Ends taken in this draft... Jason Pierre-Paul and Brandon Graham

This is the partial list of pass rushers Trent Williams wil have to contend with this season... he better get in camp early...

I don't really get why the giants took pierre-paul with what they have there already. I guess it never hurts to keep your pass rushers fresh. And graham seems more fit for a 3-4 imo. Still, your point is well taken, until we get more consistent play from the line and the receivers, we will have trouble with a lot of teams. Especially the giants, because they bring it from every position on the d-line. Justin Tuck against anybody on our interior is terrifying.

Justin Tuck against anybody on our interior is terrifying.

Justin Tuck was the true MVP of their Superbowl victory... the selection of Manning for that was disgusting.

not trying to inflate our C/G players... but Justin Tuck against almost anybodys interior is pretty scarey...

Anyway, it does look like young Mr Williams is going to have quite an education this year... That's an imposing list of pass rushers. The kid is not going to get any breaks... so he'd better be in camp, and ready to bring it.

When I look at that list it actually makes we worry for Kyle Shanahan... i'm afraid he may really have to change up his offense in order to help out with protection... we've all seen the ripple effect that has on point production...

Hopefully Wiliams will step in and step up...

USAFSkinFan wrote:How about this list...?

DeMarcus Ware
Mario Williams
Chris Long
Clay Mathews
Dewight Freeney/Robert Mathis
Julius Peppers/Adewale Ogunleye
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jevon Kearse
Jared Allen
Osi Umenyiori/Mathias Kiwanuka
Aaron Kampman
Trent Cole/Darryl Tapp

not to mention a couple of the the top Defensive Ends taken in this draft... Jason Pierre-Paul and Brandon Graham

This is the partial list of pass rushers Trent Williams wil have to contend with this season... he better get in camp early...

luckily chris long cant play a lick....dude will block him off the ball

USAFSkinFan wrote:How about this list...?

DeMarcus Ware
Mario Williams
Chris Long
Clay Mathews
Dewight Freeney/Robert Mathis
Julius Peppers/Adewale Ogunleye
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jevon Kearse
Jared Allen
Osi Umenyiori/Mathias Kiwanuka
Aaron Kampman
Trent Cole/Darryl Tapp

Well, Vanden Bosch (3 sacks last year), Kearse (1 sack last year) and Kampman (3.5 sacks last year) are all washed up. And Long hasn't done anything in the NFL. But otherwise, yeah...have fun with that, Trent!

Though I feel much better with Trent at that position than Heyer or another scrub o-lineman.

PulpExposure wrote:

USAFSkinFan wrote:How about this list...?

DeMarcus Ware
Mario Williams
Chris Long
Clay Mathews
Dewight Freeney/Robert Mathis
Julius Peppers/Adewale Ogunleye
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jevon Kearse
Jared Allen
Osi Umenyiori/Mathias Kiwanuka
Aaron Kampman
Trent Cole/Darryl Tapp

Well, Vanden Bosch (3 sacks last year), Kearse (1 sack last year) and Kampman (3.5 sacks last year) are all washed up. And Long hasn't done anything in the NFL. But otherwise, yeah...have fun with that, Trent!

Though I feel much better with Trent at that position than Heyer or another scrub o-lineman.

I agree. I'd much rather have him there, even though I've never seen him play, than Heyer.

PulpExposure wrote:

USAFSkinFan wrote:How about this list...?

DeMarcus Ware
Mario Williams
Chris Long
Clay Mathews
Dewight Freeney/Robert Mathis
Julius Peppers/Adewale Ogunleye
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jevon Kearse
Jared Allen
Osi Umenyiori/Mathias Kiwanuka
Aaron Kampman
Trent Cole/Darryl Tapp

Well, Vanden Bosch (3 sacks last year), Kearse (1 sack last year) and Kampman (3.5 sacks last year) are all washed up. And Long hasn't done anything in the NFL. But otherwise, yeah...have fun with that, Trent!

Though I feel much better with Trent at that position than Heyer or another scrub o-lineman.

Kearse (Phillip Buchanon's cousin I just learned) is all but done, but Vanden Bosch playing next to Suh could present some problems once again... Kampman may not have big numbers, but he makes you work... They love Long here is StL, but he needs some help ( he really wanted Suh) in order to have an impact...