The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Cowher is over-rated.
Just making the playoffs every year isn't enough.
Ask the Cowboys or the Eagles.
One SuperBowl in 13 seasons isn't exactly impressive either.
Some guy the Redskins once hired had 4 SuperBowl appearances and 3 SuperBowl victories in a 13 year span.
The only thing I'll give Cowher is that his power running game is suited for what the NFC East used to be. The NFC East isn't the "Smash-Mouth" power running division it used to be. Even the Beast Of The East is now passing oriented, and Cowher does not fit that mold.
For anyone thinking Cowher is a better option than Zorn, I'd say rethink.

Seriously? A first time head coach that has never even been an OC before is a better option that a coach who makes it to the playoffs every year and has been to multiple Super Bowls and has a championship ring? Now I'm not saying I want to fire Zorn (i dont), but all things being equal, Cowher crushes Zorn in terms of coaching ability. Cowher's teams always played solid defense, were disciplined, and always played hard and gave maximum effort. Can't say the same things about the Redskins. Cowher has a career record of 149 and 90 and in 15 seasons only had 3 losing seasons. The guy is a winner and knows how to get the most out of his players. You say he's overrated, but I think that he's actually underrated as a coach. What other coach in the NFL recently has had that type of consistency?

The NFC East isn't the "Smash-Mouth" power running division it used to be. Even the Beast Of The East is now passing oriented, and Cowher does not fit that mold.

In 2006, when the Steelers won the Super Bowl, Big Ben threw for over 3,500 yards. Do you know the last time that a Skins qb threw for that many yards?

now the giants dline is calling the redskins and chris samuel in particuliar,"cheapshot"artists.they say they can't wait until november 30th for some payback.sounds like the giants are still the giants,pathetic whiners as always.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Cowher is over-rated.
Just making the playoffs every year isn't enough.
Ask the Cowboys or the Eagles.
One SuperBowl in 13 seasons isn't exactly impressive either.
Some guy the Redskins once hired had 4 SuperBowl appearances and 3 SuperBowl victories in a 13 year span.
The only thing I'll give Cowher is that his power running game is suited for what the NFC East used to be. The NFC East isn't the "Smash-Mouth" power running division it used to be. Even the Beast Of The East is now passing oriented, and Cowher does not fit that mold.
For anyone thinking Cowher is a better option than Zorn, I'd say rethink.

Seriously? A first time head coach that has never even been an OC before is a better option that a coach who makes it to the playoffs every year and has been to multiple Super Bowls and has a championship ring? Now I'm not saying I want to fire Zorn (i dont), but all things being equal, Cowher crushes Zorn in terms of coaching ability. Cowher's teams always played solid defense, were disciplined, and always played hard and gave maximum effort. Can't say the same things about the Redskins. Cowher has a career record of 149 and 90 and in 15 seasons only had 3 losing seasons. The guy is a winner and knows how to get the most out of his players. You say he's overrated, but I think that he's actually underrated as a coach. What other coach in the NFL recently has had that type of consistency?

Since Zorn has exactly one game under his belt, it's not really fair to compare him to an established head coach. It's apples and oranges here imo

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Cowher is over-rated.
Just making the playoffs every year isn't enough.
Ask the Cowboys or the Eagles.
One SuperBowl in 13 seasons isn't exactly impressive either.
Some guy the Redskins once hired had 4 SuperBowl appearances and 3 SuperBowl victories in a 13 year span.
The only thing I'll give Cowher is that his power running game is suited for what the NFC East used to be. The NFC East isn't the "Smash-Mouth" power running division it used to be. Even the Beast Of The East is now passing oriented, and Cowher does not fit that mold.
For anyone thinking Cowher is a better option than Zorn, I'd say rethink.

Seriously? A first time head coach that has never even been an OC before is a better option that a coach who makes it to the playoffs every year and has been to multiple Super Bowls and has a championship ring? Now I'm not saying I want to fire Zorn (i dont), but all things being equal, Cowher crushes Zorn in terms of coaching ability. Cowher's teams always played solid defense, were disciplined, and always played hard and gave maximum effort. Can't say the same things about the Redskins. Cowher has a career record of 149 and 90 and in 15 seasons only had 3 losing seasons. The guy is a winner and knows how to get the most out of his players. You say he's overrated, but I think that he's actually underrated as a coach. What other coach in the NFL recently has had that type of consistency?

Belicheat?

JSPB22 wrote:With any coaching change there is going to be a couple of years, while the new coach is bringing in his own players and installing his team. If we go out and get Cowher next year, We will be rebuilding again, and this franchise may never get back on its feet. The Danny needs to keep his hand out of the cookie jar, and let the team gel for a few years.

As for the deep Moss play: Campbell had to avoid the rush, he was nearly sacked on the play, which is why he was late getting off the throw, and why Moss stopped running.

Yes, QBs have to deal with a pass rush. Especially on deep routs that take more time to develop. Surprise surprise. All of them have to do this in every game. Zorn reviewed the film and dissected the play. He said Campbell avoided the rusher, but didn't throw it...he instead danced some and looked to see if anyone else was coming before releasing the ball, and by then the opportunity was missed. Zorn is very clear on this point and talked about how much they focused on "avoid and throw....avoid and throw" in practice and the pre season.

Now all of the Campbell excuse makers and apologists can disagree with my assessment of Campbell all they want, but they can no longer claim that I'm the only one who sees this. Campbell's coach sees it too.

And this has been the story with Campbell all along, just as I've always maintained, including all of last year. After listening to Zorn's presser, I'm even more convinced that he's going to REQUIRE Campbell to correct these things or else. That's the impression I got when Zorn mentioned Hasselbeck losing his starter status to Trent Dilfer in Seattle.

Coaches are careful about what they say, and Zorn reiterated that he 'isn't totally discouraged" with Campbell, but that he needs to improve on those fundamentals.

The bottom line here is that there are only two possibilities; 1) Campbell hasn't gotten the proper coaching in the past two years or 2) Campbell has failed to make the necessary progress in his game.

Zorn is going to coach him up. And if he continues to make the same mistakes over and over, he's going to wind up on the sideline, which is how it should be.

Right, but he also said Hasselbeck was already in the same offense for 4 years before Zorn got there, and he was all over the place. So he is acknowledging that there is a learning curve, and that Jason is putting in the effort to get better, he's just not "there" yet. Like you said, he will continue to coach him up, but these things take time. QB's can't just come in over night and be the next great star in this league.

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:With any coaching change there is going to be a couple of years, while the new coach is bringing in his own players and installing his team. If we go out and get Cowher next year, We will be rebuilding again, and this franchise may never get back on its feet. The Danny needs to keep his hand out of the cookie jar, and let the team gel for a few years.

As for the deep Moss play: Campbell had to avoid the rush, he was nearly sacked on the play, which is why he was late getting off the throw, and why Moss stopped running.

Cowher is over-rated.
Just making the playoffs every year isn't enough.
Ask the Cowboys or the Eagles.
One SuperBowl in 13 seasons isn't exactly impressive either.
Some guy the Redskins once hired had 4 SuperBowl appearances and 3 SuperBowl victories in a 13 year span.
The only thing I'll give Cowher is that his power running game is suited for what the NFC East used to be. The NFC East isn't the "Smash-Mouth" power running division it used to be. Even the Beast Of The East is now passing oriented, and Cowher does not fit that mold.
For anyone thinking Cowher is a better option than Zorn, I'd say rethink.

GSPODS, you make it sound like winning a SuperBowl is something simple and easy to do. I would rather have 1 SuperBowl win in 13 seasons than 0 ever. How many guys have coached in the NFL since the SuperBowl has been the official championship of the league? Couple that with the fact that some coaches have multiple SuperBowl wins like Joe Jackson Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, Don Shula, Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Knoll and Tom Landry.

The coaches I just listed have won 25 of them. So 10 coaches have alomost 60% of the chamionships which in turn means that only 27 coaches have SuperBowl rings. So you're saying it's not impressive to have a SuperBowl win on your resume in 13 years of coaching when only 27 coaches out of all the coaches who've coached in the NFL have ever won it? Does that sum up your statement about only 1 SuperBowl win in 13 seasons? That makes no sense.

Keep this in mind as well, You can't win a SuperBowl if you don't even make the playoffs.

Thundersloth wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:With any coaching change there is going to be a couple of years, while the new coach is bringing in his own players and installing his team. If we go out and get Cowher next year, We will be rebuilding again, and this franchise may never get back on its feet. The Danny needs to keep his hand out of the cookie jar, and let the team gel for a few years.

As for the deep Moss play: Campbell had to avoid the rush, he was nearly sacked on the play, which is why he was late getting off the throw, and why Moss stopped running.

Cowher is over-rated.
Just making the playoffs every year isn't enough.
Ask the Cowboys or the Eagles.
One SuperBowl in 13 seasons isn't exactly impressive either.
Some guy the Redskins once hired had 4 SuperBowl appearances and 3 SuperBowl victories in a 13 year span.
The only thing I'll give Cowher is that his power running game is suited for what the NFC East used to be. The NFC East isn't the "Smash-Mouth" power running division it used to be. Even the Beast Of The East is now passing oriented, and Cowher does not fit that mold.
For anyone thinking Cowher is a better option than Zorn, I'd say rethink.

GSPODS, you make it sound like winning a SuperBowl is something simple and easy to do. I would rather have 1 SuperBowl win in 13 seasons than 0 ever. How many guys have coached in the NFL since the SuperBowl has been the official championship of the league? Couple that with the fact that some coaches have multiple SuperBowl wins like Joe Jackson Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, Don Shula, Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Knoll and Tom Landry.

The coaches I just listed have won 25 of them. So 10 coaches have alomost 60% of the chamionships which in turn means that only 27 coaches have SuperBowl rings. So you're saying it's not impressive to have a SuperBowl win on your resume in 13 years of coaching when only 27 coaches out of all the coaches who've coached in the NFL have ever won it? Does that sum up your statement about only 1 SuperBowl win in 13 seasons? That makes no sense.

Keep this in mind as well, You can't win a SuperBowl if you don't even make the playoffs.

Winning SuperBowls was easier (not easy) pre-salary cap era.
Would you prefer Marv Levy or Bud Grant to Jim Zorn?
Four SuperBowl appearances and no cigars?

The short and simple of it is that the Redskins and Redskins fans would take one more SuperBowl trophy in short order over 13 consecutive playoff appearances that never turn into SuperBowl victories or appearances.
A few of us don't know if we have another 13 years to wait.

I didn't say that a SuperBowl victory is over-rated.
I said Bill Cowher is over-rated.
And I said that Cowher's philosophy is outdated for today's NFL.

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:With any coaching change there is going to be a couple of years, while the new coach is bringing in his own players and installing his team. If we go out and get Cowher next year, We will be rebuilding again, and this franchise may never get back on its feet. The Danny needs to keep his hand out of the cookie jar, and let the team gel for a few years.

As for the deep Moss play: Campbell had to avoid the rush, he was nearly sacked on the play, which is why he was late getting off the throw, and why Moss stopped running.

Cowher is over-rated.
Just making the playoffs every year isn't enough.
Ask the Cowboys or the Eagles.
One SuperBowl in 13 seasons isn't exactly impressive either.
Some guy the Redskins once hired had 4 SuperBowl appearances and 3 SuperBowl victories in a 13 year span.
The only thing I'll give Cowher is that his power running game is suited for what the NFC East used to be. The NFC East isn't the "Smash-Mouth" power running division it used to be. Even the Beast Of The East is now passing oriented, and Cowher does not fit that mold.
For anyone thinking Cowher is a better option than Zorn, I'd say rethink.

Ok GSPODS, you be the GM (or in our case the Vice President of Football Operations AKA "Yes Man" AKA Puppet etc.) and these two resumes are on your desk which one would you hire?

Resume 1 1988-1991 QB Coach Boise State University
1992-1994 Offensive Coordinator Utah State Uninversity
1995-1996 QB Coach University of Minnesota
1997-1998 Offensive Assistant Seattle Seahawks
1999-2000 QB Coach Detroit Lions
2001-2007 QB Coach Seattle Seahawks

Resume 2 1985-1986 Special Teams Coach Cleveland Browns
1987-1988 Secondary Coach Kansas City Chiefs
1989-1991 Defensive Coordinator Kansas City Chiefs
1992-2007 HEAD COACH Pittsburgh Steelers which
includes: Youngest Coach to make it to the
SuperBowl, 1 of only 2 Head coaches to lead
his team to the playoffs every year his first
six years, 8 division titles, 6 AFC championship
appearances, 10 post season appearances, 2
AFC championships, 1 World Championship.

I'm going with the second one as a better choice. Zorn has never tried to be a Coordinator or Head Coach at this level before, besides, Bill Cowher has accomplished more in his coaching career than Jim Zorn has. Now, having said that, I will say this; I really don't think Bill Cowher would want to come and Coach the Redskins. In fact, I would say a lot of coaches would rather go somewhere else to coach.

You have an owner who has a reputation of being a meddler, you have a guy in charge of personnel who thought that after he was fired by Marty and he worked for ESPN, he'd never get another NFL job. If I'm an established NFL coach and I see Snyder or Cerrato, I'm running in the opposite direction.

Four SuperBowl appearances and no cigars?

Again, you can't win it if you're not in it. How do you think teams that haven't made an appearance in the SuperBowl feel, ask them if they'd rather never have a chance to win it or make it and have a sparkle of hope.

Would you prefer Marv Levy or Bud Grant to Jim Zorn?

So now you're assuming Zorn is going to make it to 4 SuperBowls? Why do you think Zorn's philosophy isn't outdated?

What has Zorn done in his coaching career to make you think he's in the same category as Marv Levy or Bud Grant?

Right now Zorn has as many NFL wins as I do and I don't coach in the NFL.

Not to mention you're now comparing Zorn to 2 coaches who have been out of the game and have no shot of coming out of retirement to a guy who only 3 years removed from winning a SuperBowl. Which also makes me wonder why you say Cowher's philosophy is outdated?

And I said that Cowher's philosophy is outdated for today's NFL.

Hahahahaha. So outdated that it won a Super Bowl in 2006?

RayNAustin wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:1. Jason locked on 1 reciever and wasn't scanning the field
2. Jason was slow
3. Jason missed wide open Santanna floating downfield


Campbell has to play better or its going to be a long season.


Having said that, last night I was broken, I took a loooong shower and had a bad headache, could not sleep, finally about 2am I went out, but this morning it's really not that bad look we are 0-1 that doesn't mean anything plus it was a divisional opponent which means THEY STILL GOTTA COME TO WASHINGTON, the gnats did what they were suppossed to do...now what we're suppossed to do is handle our business at home and then go get some more divisies on the road. I like our chances in the next 4 games, by the time we get to dallas we will be battle tested and part of that is getting it handed to us last night, remembering that we had opportunities to win that game, it's like Zorn said that was not a blowout, that was us with a chance to win.

OK..

1. Jason locked on 1 reciever and wasn't scanning the field Check...

2. Jason was slow Check...

3. Jason missed wide open Santanna floating downfield What game were you watching, again? Is this the play where Santana had his man beat by 3 yards, then slowed down so the DB could catch up and take away the inside? Wrong answer. That one was mostly on Santana, though Jason was a hair late getting the pass off. If he stays in stride, takes away the inside from the DB, that ball hits him in the hands, or the DB runs up his backside for a possible PI call and 1st Down on the 1. Santana has to sell it, make it happen.

I disagree with you, but what else is new? The important thing is that Zorn disagrees with you too. That was totally on Campbell. and Zorn makes no bones about it.

I don't see how it is even though Zorn said it was. It makes no sense to me to get past a defender downfield, immediately slow down so he can catch you, then speed up again after the ball has already been thrown, while you were slowing down. You can take a quick look for a ball downfield, but you can't completely stop running so a cb catches you. It's not like you're going to get hit at a particular yard marker 50 yards down the field, its not even planned that way. Even so, its not like Campbell "missed" moss on that play, The ball was on target. Moss should have had the better position, and if he had any physicality whatsoever, he would have gone up and got that ball anyway. Same thing goes for that deep ball Thrash dropped that was right in his hands. Theres a reason two wide receivers were selected in the second round. The skins have, without a doubt, the worst WR core in the National Football League. Not to make excuses for Campbell, he is still struggling with the system obviously and may be too lethargic in general. But on a completely separate issue, there is no WR on the team that is a legitimate threat to anyone.

Thundersloth wrote:Would you prefer Marv Levy or Bud Grant to Jim Zorn?

So now you're assuming Zorn is going to make it to 4 SuperBowls? Why do you think Zorn's philosophy isn't outdated?

What has Zorn done in his coaching career to make you think he's in the same category as Marv Levy or Bud Grant?

Right now Zorn has as many NFL wins as I do and I don't coach in the NFL.

Not to mention you're now comparing Zorn to 2 coaches who have been out of the game and have no shot of coming out of retirement to a guy who only 3 years removed from winning a SuperBowl. Which also makes me wonder why you say Cowher's philosophy is outdated?

I think the point is being missed. Bill Cowher is no better fit for the Washington Redskins current roster than Jim Zorn is. Who cares what Cowher or Zorn or anyone else did with another team? People who think that only changing the coach solves anything are delusional. Every time a team changes the head coach, they also have to change player personnel to match the coaching philosophy. Bringing in Cowher would mean changing just as many players as bringing in Jim Zorn means. The current player personnel don't entirely fit either Jim Zorn's or Bill Cowher's offensive scheme. And it will take far more than one off-season of free agents, trades and draft picks to get the players to match the scheme, regardless of who the coach is. There aren't any Joe Gibbs clones with Joe Gibbs philosophies to hire. And the current player personnel still largely match his scheme, and no one elses.

Jim Zorn needs to be given at least three seasons.
And so would Bill Cowher or any other new head coach.
That is the point I was attempting to get at.

GSPODS wrote:

Thundersloth wrote:Would you prefer Marv Levy or Bud Grant to Jim Zorn?

So now you're assuming Zorn is going to make it to 4 SuperBowls? Why do you think Zorn's philosophy isn't outdated?

What has Zorn done in his coaching career to make you think he's in the same category as Marv Levy or Bud Grant?

Right now Zorn has as many NFL wins as I do and I don't coach in the NFL.

Not to mention you're now comparing Zorn to 2 coaches who have been out of the game and have no shot of coming out of retirement to a guy who only 3 years removed from winning a SuperBowl. Which also makes me wonder why you say Cowher's philosophy is outdated?

I think the point is being missed. Bill Cowher is no better fit for the Washington Redskins current roster than Jim Zorn is. Who cares what Cowher or Zorn or anyone else did with another team? People who think that only changing the coach solves anything are delusional. Every time a team changes the head coach, they also have to change player personnel to match the coaching philosophy. Bringing in Cowher would mean changing just as many players as bringing in Jim Zorn means. The current player personnel don't entirely fit either Jim Zorn's or Bill Cowher's offensive scheme. And it will take far more than one off-season of free agents, trades and draft picks to get the players to match the scheme, regardless of who the coach is. There aren't any Joe Gibbs clones with Joe Gibbs philosophies to hire. And the current player personnel still largely match his scheme, and no one elses.

Jim Zorn needs to be given at least three seasons.
And so would Bill Cowher or any other new head coach.
That is the point I was attempting to get at.

Three seasons?

Unless your first name is Joe, last name Gibbs, you ain´t getting three season from The Danny. That or you reach the Super Bowl.

Sorry. But that´s the way it has been in the past and I don´t expect it to change. The coach may be young but some players are reaching their career zenith. These are Portis´, Campbell´s, Laron´s, Moss´ and quite a few others best years. They want change if they don´t see success before three years.

Bill Cowher is no better fit for the Washington Redskins current roster than Jim Zorn is.

If that was your point why didn't you just say that, instead of talking about his outdated philosophies for todays NFL. I would consider todays NFL to be the same as 3 years ago's NFL and that's when he won a championship. And it would seem to me that Pittsburgh's offense resembles more of the Redskin's offense than hiring a WC offense guy to be your coordinator. Defensively, if Cowher changed over to a 3-4, then yes, I would say our personnel doesn't match the scheme. You need a guy like Polamalu who can come up and be a factor in the run and still be able to cover, which we don't have right now. You're stating the obvious, the only coach that's the best fit for the personnel currently on the Redskin's roster is the guy who retired, so "fit" was going to be an issue no matter who took over.

Who cares what Cowher or Zorn or anyone else did with another team?

So you're saying it's an accident that Bill Parcells has taken different teams to the playoffs, Marty (who we fired after 1 year) took different teams to the playoffs, Mike Holmgren did too. So that's why you care what a coach did with another team. Why would you bring back Joe Jackson Gibbs? The NFL is different and the franchise is different. They brought him back because he's a winner.

But please answer the question about the resumes. Which one would you pick if you were the GM???

El Mexican wrote: Three seasons?

Unless your first name is Joe, last name Gibbs, you ain´t getting three season from The Danny. That or you reach the Super Bowl.

Sorry. But that´s the way it has been in the past and I don´t expect it to change. The coach may be young but some players are reaching their career zenith. These are Portis´, Campbell´s, Laron´s, Moss´ and quite a few others best years. They want change if they don´t see success before three years.

The first, last and most important thing Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato should have learned from Joe Gibbs is that winning teams are built, not bought. And winning teams are built over time, not overnight.

If that isn't abundantly clear to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato at this point, it never will be and Snyder should sell the team.

Should have known, could have known, would have known, does know.
Should have done, would have done, could have done, will do.
Ages and Stages, here come the 1,2,3's of how to own a winning NFL franchise.

Dan Snyder has spent his entire adult life, up till the time he purchased the Redskins, under the misguided impression that he can buy anything he wants. And, for the most part, he can. But SuperBowls aren't one of the things that can be bought, and spoiled brat Danny just figured that out. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he has actually learned a lesson that money can't buy Lombardi Trophies.

Why I'm giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt is another discussion.
The short of it is that he still owns, and will continue to own the Redskins for the foreseeable future, and there isn't any other choice.

GSPODS wrote:money can't buy Lombardi Trophies.

Sure it can. The NFL buys one every season, and then awards it to the team that wins the Superbowl.

Still waiting for an answer GSPODS, who would you pick???

Thundersloth wrote:Still waiting for an answer GSPODS, who would you pick???

I don't know what his response will be, but Cowher was not an option at the time the choice was made. Also, just because Zorn hasn't been given the HC reins before does not necessarily mean that Cowher is the better choice. Who's to say that Zorn's stats won't one day surpass Cowher's? Joe Gibbs was an untested HC when he was hired in '81. Now he's in the HOF. I still contend that hiring Cowher, without giving Zorn time to make the team in his image, would be a huge mistake which would only cost this team untold more rebuilding years.

Thundersloth wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:With any coaching change there is going to be a couple of years, while the new coach is bringing in his own players and installing his team. If we go out and get Cowher next year, We will be rebuilding again, and this franchise may never get back on its feet. The Danny needs to keep his hand out of the cookie jar, and let the team gel for a few years.

As for the deep Moss play: Campbell had to avoid the rush, he was nearly sacked on the play, which is why he was late getting off the throw, and why Moss stopped running.

Cowher is over-rated.
Just making the playoffs every year isn't enough.
Ask the Cowboys or the Eagles.
One SuperBowl in 13 seasons isn't exactly impressive either.
Some guy the Redskins once hired had 4 SuperBowl appearances and 3 SuperBowl victories in a 13 year span.
The only thing I'll give Cowher is that his power running game is suited for what the NFC East used to be. The NFC East isn't the "Smash-Mouth" power running division it used to be. Even the Beast Of The East is now passing oriented, and Cowher does not fit that mold.
For anyone thinking Cowher is a better option than Zorn, I'd say rethink.

Ok GSPODS, you be the GM (or in our case the Vice President of Football Operations AKA "Yes Man" AKA Puppet etc.) and these two resumes are on your desk which one would you hire?

Resume 1 1988-1991 QB Coach Boise State University
1992-1994 Offensive Coordinator Utah State Uninversity
1995-1996 QB Coach University of Minnesota
1997-1998 Offensive Assistant Seattle Seahawks
1999-2000 QB Coach Detroit Lions
2001-2007 QB Coach Seattle Seahawks

Resume 2 1985-1986 Special Teams Coach Cleveland Browns
1987-1988 Secondary Coach Kansas City Chiefs
1989-1991 Defensive Coordinator Kansas City Chiefs
1992-2007 HEAD COACH Pittsburgh Steelers which
includes: Youngest Coach to make it to the
SuperBowl, 1 of only 2 Head coaches to lead
his team to the playoffs every year his first
six years, 8 division titles, 6 AFC championship
appearances, 10 post season appearances, 2
AFC championships, 1 World Championship.

I'm going with the second one as a better choice. Zorn has never tried to be a Coordinator or Head Coach at this level before, besides, Bill Cowher has accomplished more in his coaching career than Jim Zorn has. Now, having said that, I will say this; I really don't think Bill Cowher would want to come and Coach the Redskins. In fact, I would say a lot of coaches would rather go somewhere else to coach.

You have an owner who has a reputation of being a meddler, you have a guy in charge of personnel who thought that after he was fired by Marty and he worked for ESPN, he'd never get another NFL job. If I'm an established NFL coach and I see Snyder or Cerrato, I'm running in the opposite direction.

This isn't a valid question since, as an NFL franchise owner, just because two people have expressed interest in and applied for the position of head coach of your franchise, doesn't mean there is any obligation to hire either one of them. If an owner really doesn't care about winning at all, he can coach his team himself and learn on the fly.

If you're asking what I would personally do, the answer is I would not have hired either Jim Zorn or Bill Cowher. I can think of several coaches I would have looked at before either of those two names.

The question makes it sound like there aren't options beyond the two resumes. If resumes were all anyone cared about, Brian Billick also has a SuperBowl victory to his credit. Would anyone hire him?

I am glad we have Zorn - I think he was the best suited of the coaches that were being discussed. I also think that he will prove to be one of the better coaches in the NFL.

I am not sure who exactly was in the running but I think that Zorn is a better fit for our team than Cowher, Fassel, Spagnuolo or the few other names we heard.

I must admit I would have preferred we keep Williams with Zorn as the OC but apparently that was not what Snyder, Cerrato and the other decision makers felt.

I happen to think that Zorn will be here for at least 3 years unless he makes it very obvious that he doesn't know what he's doing and I highly doubt that will be the case.

The question is quite valid you are just dodging it. You look at the two resumes and pick one. Usually you trim your options down to a few and pick one, but in this case really besides Fassel there weren't too many takers clamoring to be the Redskins head coach.

So let me put it another way, your eliminating candidates for your head coaching position, which one would you eliminate?

Is it me or did the Redskins see the same thing I did and come to the same conclusion since Zorn wasn't hired as the head coach either, he was hired as the offensive coordinator. Make no mistake about it, Redskins management can put any spin they want to on it, but no high profile coach wanted the job which made it neccessary for them to scramble and then hire Zorn. If Zorn was the man from the giddyup, why wasn't he hired as the head coach originally??? Why did management need a "do over"???

Cowher was not an option at the time the choice was made.
JSPB22
I'm not saying he was. I just want to know which coach has more experience and track record of success in the NFL.

Joe Gibbs was an untested HC when he was hired in '81. Now he's in the HOF.

Here are some differences between Joe Jackson Gibbs and Jim Zorn and the way they were hired.

1. Joe Gibbs was an offensive coordinator with Bucs and the Chargers, so he wasn't new to play calling.

2. Joe Gibbs was NOT hired as the offensive coordinator and then hired as the head coach.

3. Joe Gibbs was sought out and suggested to Jack Kent Cooke by a guy who knew what he was doing, Bobby Beathard.

When it's all said and done, Jim Zorn might be a good head coach, but the process is bassackwards. There may be many ways to build a winning franchise, but it appears that after 12 years as owner, Dan Snyder still has no clue.

Thundersloth wrote:The question is quite valid you are just dodging it. You look at the two resumes and pick one. Usually you trim your options down to a few and pick one, but in this case really besides Fassel there weren't too many takers clamoring to be the Redskins head coach.

There were only two currently on the Redskins staff in Al Saunders and Gregg Williams, and one who wasn't asked who actually has previous head coaching experience in Joe Bugel. Then we have a couple of former Redskins in Russ Grimm and Joe Jacoby who would have taken the offer in a New York minute if it had come their way.

That's before we even get to the list of current and former New York Giants coaches, and any other potential candidates.

The list of people who would have taken the job is short.
Ten times longer than the list of people who would take a Raiders coaching vacancy, but short nonetheless.

The question is still invalid. I would have taken the job. It wasn't offered to me. At least a dozen unemployed former coaches and coordinators would have taken the job. It wasn't offered to them, either. It's still impossible to accept a position that isn't offered. All the "clamoring" in the world doesn't force an owner to offer anyone a job.

People are more than welcome to keep thinking that Bill Cowher (or anyone else) would have been able to make more progress in less time than Jim Zorn, but that brings us back to the "these players fit Joe Gibbs' scheme and no one elses" discussion. It also brings us back to the "It's going to take far more than one single off-season of free agents, trades and draft picks to address all the team's needs" discussion.

I sense this discussion is becoming circular.