Patrick vs. Eli

[elchalje]

Big Blue fan here. Looks like Patrick and Eli will go at it two weeks from Sunday. Also, gotta figure that Parcells has to get a look at Henson soon, Three new NFC East QBs. Who would have thunk it?

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Hey, elchalje! I'm happy to see Patrick back in the game, now that I witnessed first-hand Mark's inablity to complete a forward pass. I'm sorry I can't say the same thing for the decision up north. They should have stayed with Warner. His hand might not be "hot" at the moment, but it's still to early to throw the kid in, while they're alive in the run for the playoffs. I was looking forward to Kurt's resurgence, and a showdown between one of our "Redeemedskin" QBs and Brother Kurt in two weeks (call me biased, okay? ). Too bad it won't happen.

Also, for those who think Eli will be Ben Ro-Berger Part II, you all have another thing comin'. He was rated as high as young Ben was. His lineage gave him the boost to #1 overall.

With that said, I can't wait to see our "D" christen the young Eli into the league.

[riggofan]

I'm really looking forward to seeing what Eli Manning can do. The Giants should have played him about two weeks earlier!

[Primetime42]

I said from the weekse leading up to the draft, on and on, how the Giants should just ignore the bloodlines and take Roethlisbereer. The guy was bigger, stronger, faster and had a better arm.

Instead, Eli bitched and got his way, the Giants screwed themselves out of a first rounder, and Big Ben ended up in Pittsburgh.

Giants fans better hope Eli is the real deal, or they'll never live it down.

[NC43Hog]

I said from the weekse leading up to the draft, on and on, how the Giants should just ignore the bloodlines and take Roethlisbereer. The guy was bigger, stronger, faster and had a better arm.

Instead, Eli bitched and got his way, the Giants screwed themselves out of a first rounder, and Big Ben ended up in Pittsburgh.

Giants fans better hope Eli is the real deal, or they'll never live it down.

I loved the pick - cause it means Roth... is in Pitts and not in the NFC East. Eli will get his due - mostly turf in his helmut I venture!

[wonker]

It's really sad what has happened in the NFC East. I was hoping the Skins could run with Philthy. I never thought dallas or the gints could. I still think we hvae a better chance with Hassleback, but that doesn't seem like it'll happen.

Henson is a disaster for Dallas. Their season is totally gone and Tuna still thinks nothing of him. Will Dallas go QB with one of their two high picks next year? That team is really a mess. Are any LBs 6 feet?



wonker

[Primetime42]

It's really sad what has happened in the NFC East. I was hoping the Skins could run with Philthy. I never thought dallas or the gints could. I still think we hvae a better chance with Hassleback, but that doesn't seem like it'll happen.

Henson is a disaster for Dallas. Their season is totally gone and Tuna still thinks nothing of him. Will Dallas go QB with one of their two high picks next year? That team is really a mess. Are any LBs 6 feet?



wonker

wonker, you have no clue how wrong you are.

Henson has not played a down in 3 years. Does the name Chad Hutchinson ring any bells? We don't need another QB getting shell shocked because he got thrown in way too early. Henson will most likely play against the Saints...that way he has a full 11 days to prepare. Dallas has 3 games in 11 days (Counting the Philly disaster) Henson has no business starting his career in that stretch.

Also, Henson has a clause in his contract that says if he plays a certain number of snaps in this first year, the last three years are voided. Tuna is saving the 'Boys a little cap space by holding off Henson. He'll play this season, when the time is right...see, unlike you guys, we aren't clamoring for the head of our old QB and to put in the young one, because there's no rush.

And to say that Henson is a disaster is way off the mark. Have you not heard? Everyone, from Ron Wolf down to Lloyd Carr says that had Henson stayed at Michigan, he would have been the top pick in this past year's draft.

But I do agree about the small LB's. We've got Bradie James, but I think Coakley will be going, Dat Ngyuen may be moved to the outside...who knows? Our biggest concerns are Right Corner and defensive line really.

[DeathByLinebacker#56]

It's too early for Eli and it's a week late for Ramsey.We will take it though. The Skins will start to become competitive finally.

[Redskin Stouff]

Primetime 42, all Cowpie fans except you have been chanting Henson's name. Parcell's is as stubborn as they come and handpicked his good buddy Vinny to start and is determined to make it work.

I'm surprised Parcells didn't get Mark Bavarro and Lawrence Taylor to come out of retirement to complete his old age home.

[Primetime42]

Primetime 42, all Cowpie fans except you have been chanting Henson's name. Parcell's is as stubborn as they come and handpicked his good buddy Vinny to start and is determined to make it work.

I'm surprised Parcells didn't get Mark Bavarro and Lawrence Taylor to come out of retirement to complete his old age home.

wrong again, stouff.

As Cowboy fans, we ALL want to see what Henson can do, because we all believe that he is the future...BUT we also agree that we dont want a repeat performance of Hutch The Fearful.

Henson will play when he is ready. This has nothing to do with Vinny being Parcells "boy" The fact is that Vinny can't be held wholly to blame for our plight the way Mark Brunell can for yours. Vinny is doing ok, given what he has to work with.

Those Cowboy fans chanting Henson's name KNOW in the back of their minds that throwing this kid out there against the Eagles, Baltimore Ravens and Bears Defenses in a span of 11 days is career suicide.

Mark it down, I said the kid will play against the Saints. THAT's the target date.

...just because I'm a Cowboy fan does not make me wrong

[cvillehog]

I mean, yeah, look at all those times that Brunell lined up behind the Guard instead of the Center....

[1niksder]

Have you not heard? Everyone, from Ron Wolf down to Lloyd Carr says that had Henson stayed at Michigan, he would have been the top pick in this past year's draft.

Had he stayed at Michigan.....Maybe, but he didn't so that statement really doesn't mean anything
If he fails they'll say I told you so he should have stayed in school and would have been great. Should he excel then they'll just say how much better he would have been.

Henson has not played a down in 3 years. Does the name Chad Hutchinson ring any bells? We don't need another QB getting shell shocked because he got thrown in way too early. Henson will most likely play against the Saints...that way he has a full 11 days to prepare. Dallas has 3 games in 11 days (Counting the Philly disaster) Henson has no business starting his career in that stretch.

The Saints game might be to soon but if that team in Texas does decide to play him then it would be better than throwing him out there now.

Ramsey/Burnell was totally different than your situation or the one in in NY Ramsey HAS played in the NFL and will probally has already adjusted to the speed after a long bench ride But Drew and Eli haven't taken a snap.

That team in Texas can actually use Eli as a gauge as to weather or not to play Drew

Did I just agree with PT42

[Primetime42]

I mean, yeah, look at all those times that Brunell lined up behind the Guard instead of the Center....

WEll, Vinny just celebrated his 41st...they say the mind is the first thing to go...

[Primetime42]

Have you not heard? Everyone, from Ron Wolf down to Lloyd Carr says that had Henson stayed at Michigan, he would have been the top pick in this past year's draft.

Had he stayed at Michigan.....Maybe, but he didn't so that statement really doesn't mean anything
If he fails they'll say I told you so he should have stayed in school and would have been great. Should he excel then they'll just say how much better he would have been.

(Best Samuel L Jackson impression)
Well, allow me to retort...

what I SHOULD have said was that Ron Wolf, among others, as little as 2 months ago, raved about Henson in that

1)He had a cannon.

2)He was as accurate as any QB in this draft.

3)He was smart, scored really high on the Wonderlic (Sean Taylor can't say that )

4)The 3 years in a world class organization like the Yankees may have actually HELPED this kid not only in his athleticism (remember, he played the hot corner) but also his maturity. It was hard to rattle this guy.

5)As a quarterback, he has the ability to LEAD, and while it might not SEEM obvious, not all QB's are natural born leaders (see; Frerotte, Gus and Leaf, Ryan)

and before you guys start saying "Well Leaf was highly touted too", consider this. Everyone who wasn't associated with the San Diego Chargers KNEW Leaf had a horrible attitude, couldn't be a leader and really didn't give a damn about football. He wanted his payday and then he was gonna retire..which is what happened.

[1niksder]

Have you not heard? Everyone, from Ron Wolf down to Lloyd Carr says that had Henson stayed at Michigan, he would have been the top pick in this past year's draft.

Had he stayed at Michigan.....Maybe, but he didn't so that statement really doesn't mean anything
If he fails they'll say I told you so he should have stayed in school and would have been great. Should he excel then they'll just say how much better he would have been.

(Best Samuel L Jackson impression)
Well, allow me to retort...

what I SHOULD have said was that Ron Wolf, among others, as little as 2 months ago, raved about Henson in that

1)He had a cannon.

2)He was as accurate as any QB in this draft.

3)He was smart, scored really high on the Wonderlic (Sean Taylor can't say that )

4)The 3 years in a world class organization like the Yankees may have actually HELPED this kid not only in his athleticism (remember, he played the hot corner) but also his maturity. It was hard to rattle this guy.

5)As a quarterback, he has the ability to LEAD, and while it might not SEEM obvious, not all QB's are natural born leaders (see; Frerotte, Gus and Leaf, Ryan)

and before you guys start saying "Well Leaf was highly touted too", consider this. Everyone who wasn't associated with the San Diego Chargers KNEW Leaf had a horrible attitude, couldn't be a leader and really didn't give a damn about football. He wanted his payday and then he was gonna retire..which is what happened.

Note everything you posted is in the past tense
Why Because he has done NOTHING,ZELCH in the past 3 years if he were all that I have no doubt that BP would have been put him in. Right now he's still a crap shoot

[Primetime42]

Have you not heard? Everyone, from Ron Wolf down to Lloyd Carr says that had Henson stayed at Michigan, he would have been the top pick in this past year's draft.

Had he stayed at Michigan.....Maybe, but he didn't so that statement really doesn't mean anything
If he fails they'll say I told you so he should have stayed in school and would have been great. Should he excel then they'll just say how much better he would have been.

(Best Samuel L Jackson impression)
Well, allow me to retort...

what I SHOULD have said was that Ron Wolf, among others, as little as 2 months ago, raved about Henson in that

1)He had a cannon.

2)He was as accurate as any QB in this draft.

3)He was smart, scored really high on the Wonderlic (Sean Taylor can't say that )

4)The 3 years in a world class organization like the Yankees may have actually HELPED this kid not only in his athleticism (remember, he played the hot corner) but also his maturity. It was hard to rattle this guy.

5)As a quarterback, he has the ability to LEAD, and while it might not SEEM obvious, not all QB's are natural born leaders (see; Frerotte, Gus and Leaf, Ryan)

and before you guys start saying "Well Leaf was highly touted too", consider this. Everyone who wasn't associated with the San Diego Chargers KNEW Leaf had a horrible attitude, couldn't be a leader and really didn't give a damn about football. He wanted his payday and then he was gonna retire..which is what happened.

Note everything you posted is in the past tense
Why Because he has done NOTHING,ZELCH in the past 3 years if he were all that I have no doubt that BP would have been put him in. Right now he's still a crap shoot

http://
http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?i ... F302353D92

for your reading enjoyment.
I'll continue this with you tomorrow. Goodnight

[Scottskins]

I agree, Vinny's situation is nothing like ours. Vinny is surrounded by less talent. Brunell has a good RB and at least decent WRs. Brunell did himself in. I've always like Vinny after his Tampa days. He's one of the few QBs ever to turn an abysmal career around and develope into a pretty decent QB.

As for Henson...Who knows. He was good in college, it was awhile ago, and until he starts playing, no one will know how good he's gonna be. For every great looking college QB that actually turns into a great NFL QB, or even starting NFL QB, there are 100's that don't pan out. We won't know until he starts taking snaps.

[doroshjt]

Do you think if his name was eli jones that he would have been drafted so high? I don't, I think he'll be a bust in NY.

[welch]

4)The 3 years in a world class organization like the Yankees may have actually HELPED this kid not only in his athleticism (remember, he played the hot corner) but also his maturity. It was hard to rattle this guy.

A lot of good, hopeful, points, and I well remember that Jay Schroeder dropped out of collge (UCLA?) after a year, and tried playing minor league baseball. People laughed when Beathard drafted him...another of Beathard's Follies. Schroeder took the Redskins to the NFC championship game in his second year as a starter.

However...there are at least three fans of that world class baseball organization who saw that Henson looked rattled and overwhelmed. Sure, there was a lot of pressure, because he was slotted to replace Scott Brosius...Henson was The Next Big Thing in a really big place.

Maybe he always belonged in football. Even so, it will probably take more than six months to leap from freshman college QB to the NFL.

[Primetime42]

4)The 3 years in a world class organization like the Yankees may have actually HELPED this kid not only in his athleticism (remember, he played the hot corner) but also his maturity. It was hard to rattle this guy.

A lot of good, hopeful, points, and I well remember that Jay Schroeder dropped out of collge (UCLA?) after a year, and tried playing minor league baseball. People laughed when Beathard drafted him...another of Beathard's Follies. Schroeder took the Redskins to the NFC championship game in his second year as a starter.

However...there are at least three fans of that world class baseball organization who saw that Henson looked rattled and overwhelmed. Sure, there was a lot of pressure, because he was slotted to replace Scott Brosius...Henson was The Next Big Thing in a really big place.

Maybe he always belonged in football. Even so, it will probably take more than six months to leap from freshman college QB to the NFL.

Hey, I agree, which is why the guy isn't playing.

The talent is there. The heart is there. The Leadership is there.

But you don't just get thrown out there into a collapsing pocket with 300 pounders coming at you. You need to re-learn.

one of the things Tuna is supposedly preaching to him is that he holds on to the ball about a second too long. That's huge. It can be helped, but if he's holding onto the ball too long, I don't want him out there.

But his time will come. Once again, my money is on the Saints game.

[die cowboys die]

...how is baseball supposed to help with athleticism? they stand around for 4 hours and move once every 20 minutes, for about 3 seconds each. the only less athletic sport i can think of is golf (at least in bowling you have to throw that really heavy ball a whole bunch of times).

in any case it doesn't really matter, because someone who's only playing football because he wasn't good enough at baseball is never going to have what it takes to lead a team. you might be able to get away with that playing another position, but no way at QB. he'll be out of the league in 3-5 years, tops.

[Primetime42]

...how is baseball supposed to help with athleticism? they stand around for 4 hours and move once every 20 minutes, for about 3 seconds each. the only less athletic sport i can think of is golf (at least in bowling you have to throw that really heavy ball a whole bunch of times).

in any case it doesn't really matter, because someone who's only playing football because he wasn't good enough at baseball is never going to have what it takes to lead a team. you might be able to get away with that playing another position, but no way at QB. he'll be out of the league in 3-5 years, tops.

Yea, you're pretty much clueless on this. It doesn't even warrant a respones, but I'll do it anyway.

He played third base, which is a position that a guy must be pretty athletic and have good reflexes to play even at the high school level...Baseball's not an athletic sport? Let's see you play professional then. You wouldn't last a day.

Secondly, what does his baseball ability have to do with football? He spent his entire life playing two sports, figured he could keep doing it, but realized that he couldn't, so he went back to football? How does that make him not good enough?

That whole post you just did was nothing but the Cowboy hater in you talking. Makes a lot of sense I'd get something stupid like that from someone with your board name

[die cowboys die]

hahah yeah i'm clueless. observe as i dismantle every aspect of your argument, thus humiliating your feeble intellect:

there is a difference between athleticism and reflexes. true a good athlete must have great reflexes but one is not a great athlete merely because they posess them. baseball requires reflexes, but not athleticism.
this is true especially for the infield, as each player has only about 20 square feet of space to cover, and they only have to move for a few seconds every several minutes (if that often).

so it is outrageous to compare what an NFL QB must endure physically to what a 3rd baseman does. especially when you consider this: how many 300 pound gentlemen on the other team are constantly attempting (and often succeeding) in smashing into and landing on top of a 3rd baseman?

additionally, the mental aspects of each position are laughably incomparable. on every play, a QB has 21 other players to keep track of, whizzing around in unpredictable directions. if he loses track of even one, the play can be destroyed. a 3rd basemen has an extremely limited number of things to keep track of: the ball, and where 2 or 3 other people are (and those people are moving along predescribed paths of the baselines).

so please. stop making me laugh. baseball is a noble game, but it is a terrible insult to football to try to compare the two in this way.

[welch]

Our estemmed guest, PT42, has watched some baseball. If you want to see athleticism, go to a game and watch the infield. Watch the 3rd baseman, and imagine yourself facing a strong right-handed hitter with a lefty pitcher.

The pitches come in at about 90+ mph, and they return at about the same. The 3rd baseman has no time to think, survey the field. He reacts to a rifle-shot. That's why they play so much on their knees, diving right or left, then firing the ball across the diamond to 1B or 2B.

In that 1/4 second play, the 3B only has to know where about 6 other players are moving, right, but they react to the play: no pre-set schemes, no rigidly repeated practice ("50 Gut on 2").

Henson seemd to be a decent fielder, which requires great reflexes, strong nerves, and a strong arm.

He couldn't hit. That's no shame. Most people can't hit breaking balls, and pitchers have perfected the split-finger -- the ultimate breaking ball -- in the last twenty years.

For those who still doubt the "athleticism" of baseball players, I invite you to NY to see the Yankees next year. Watch the Yankees infield.

Then try playing softy-ball, taking a long fly. Imagine if, instead, you have to catch a hard line-drive after a long run.

How hard?

OK, this is a reminder of the Nats, our old, and new team.

I saw a White Sox / Senators game in late '66 or '67 in Old Comiskey Park, the field with the longest dimensions and the least homeruns. Frank Howard hit a line drive right over the pitcher's mound, causing the pitcher to duck for fear pf losing his head. It rose slowly, and it was still rising when it hit the center-field back wall, with a "thonk" that echoed through Comiskey. Most homeruns take an arc, and they're on their way down when they land. Howard's was still on the way up, 450 feet or so from homeplate.

Now consider that Howard hit line drive singles with the same power.

*

Henson probably has a year or more to learn NFL QB. Parcells is right not to rush him. Sure, I tease Cowboy fans, especially incautious ones, about Henson as infielder, but he has played under pressure for three years. He can't hit, but very few people can hit ("Hardest thing in sports", said Ted Williams)

[Primetime42]

hahah yeah i'm clueless. observe as i dismantle every aspect of your argument, thus humiliating your feeble intellect:

there is a difference between athleticism and reflexes. true a good athlete must have great reflexes but one is not a great athlete merely because they posess them. baseball requires reflexes, but not athleticism.
this is true especially for the infield, as each player has only about 20 square feet of space to cover, and they only have to move for a few seconds every several minutes (if that often).

so it is outrageous to compare what an NFL QB must endure physically to what a 3rd baseman does. especially when you consider this: how many 300 pound gentlemen on the other team are constantly attempting (and often succeeding) in smashing into and landing on top of a 3rd baseman?

additionally, the mental aspects of each position are laughably incomparable. on every play, a QB has 21 other players to keep track of, whizzing around in unpredictable directions. if he loses track of even one, the play can be destroyed. a 3rd basemen has an extremely limited number of things to keep track of: the ball, and where 2 or 3 other people are (and those people are moving along predescribed paths of the baselines).

so please. stop making me laugh. baseball is a noble game, but it is a terrible insult to football to try to compare the two in this way.

Like I said, you're clueless.

Not only can Henson handle the pressure that comes with playing for one of the greatest sports organizations in the world, but he has proven that he can do it on the gridiron.


So what you're basically telling me is that the guy has no clue what to do on the football field, which of course is total BS. They guy played ball AND he was very good at it....for the MICHIGAN WOLVERINES!!! If he wasn't athletic or smart enough, he'd have been playing at some second rate school (Like, oh, I don't know...Tulane? )

Just sit back and watch, I didn't want to say this before, but since you've enticed me, I will: Five years from now, we will look back, and Drew Henson will prove to be a better investment than that poor kid that you guys screwed up, Patrick Ramsey