why is EVERYONE questioning EVERYONE about ....

[Irn-Bru]

What you are all missing is that we all express our fandom in different ways. We all live and die by the team, we just don't all practice the deism brand of fandom as you.

If we weren't fans, we wouldn't care enough to get upset about it.

What about that is confusing?

I would disagree that I'm "missing" the fact that people express fandom in different ways. When the Skins are stumbling, some fans get upset because their favorite team is consistently losing, others ride it like it's their last chance at supporting a sports team.

I choose the latter. I understand that people choose the former, but it doesn't change my choice. Again, just differences, not judgments.

[cvillehog]

What you are all missing is that we all express our fandom in different ways. We all live and die by the team, we just don't all practice the deism brand of fandom as you.

If we weren't fans, we wouldn't care enough to get upset about it.

What about that is confusing?

I would disagree that I'm "missing" the fact that people express fandom in different ways. When the Skins are stumbling, some fans get upset because their favorite team is consistently losing, others ride it like it's their last chance at supporting a sports team.

I choose the latter. I understand that people choose the former, but it doesn't change my choice. Again, just differences, not judgments.

I think you are mischaracterizing the former choice.

It's not about just being upset, it's about searching for answers.

Some people are followers by nature, so maybe they have an easier time being "sheep." Others live by the mantra "question everything," and don't change that core value when they approach rooting for their favorite sports teams.

The idea that the latter is somehow better or more an expression of "true" fandom is implicit in the argument.

Then again, other people just like to argue...

[Redskin in Canada]

This is the BEST thread that I have EVER read in this board. I have decided to participate in it with great respect and admiration for several of the views expressed in it.

It does not take long to empathise a lot with some of the posts here. They have expressed my views better and more eloquently than I ever could. I see myself in some of them. It is amazing.

I can not match the elquence on different sides of the arguments made, so I will only add some of my thoughts:

1. I can not tell necessarily who is older or younger than whoever else in this board. Sure you can make inferences about some members based on the knowledge they bring. But this knowledge can be as valuable to me and the board if it comes from study than if it comes from personal experience. I have seen equally great posts from apparently "older" and "younger" fans in this board. Age does not make a difference. One of the beautiful things about this board is that we can not be deceived by personal appearnces. We get to know the knowledge, views and reasons of one another without any prejudice of any kind. I am here because I choose to read and share valuable thoughts with the best Skins fans whether I agree with them or not.

2. I do not know what makes necessarily a better fan. But I know what makes a more informed and knowledgeable fan. I come to this board to learn as much as I can. I try to have a constructive and positive attitude towards my players, coaches and fellow fans. We are in this together. I have developed a great deal of respect for other posters who have a much better knowedge (sometimes first hand) about some aspect of our team. People undoubtedly earn more my respect through their views than others. But I have also witnessed great positive transformations among the people themselves overthe last few months.

3. Some of our divisions appear to stem from the fact that some fans know Joe Gibbs better than others. Joe Gibbs, like the Skins, has his own fan base. Joe has done enough in his lifetime to EARN the respct, admiration and complete confidence from some of us. He is not perfect and he has been throughout his life the first to put himself down when he needed to. Just listen to each press conference lately. BUT would I choose to be in the trenches with him and his decisions every week??? Hell yes! Everytime! I would rather be called wrong and worse for standing with him and his knowledhge of what can give the team the best chance than be destructive against him and my team week in and out. I understand that some fans, particularly those who have not had this experience doubt and even may ridicule our position. I rather live and die with a few good people than play genius in hindsight. They will learn eventually.

4. Last but not least, it is not about winning or losing only. It is about HOW winning and losing is acomplished every week. I will take any loss this season for any of the victories last season. I see the character of my team being forged. I see my core Skins being developed. I sense a feeling of loyalty and generosity that can only be shared when you put the interest of the TEAM ahead of yourself. I have no question that our team is getting better every week. I rather lose with this team than win with any other team in the NFL.

Hail to the Redskins!

Through thick and thin,
ALWAYS a Redskin

[JPFair]

Very well said, RIC.

[Irn-Bru]

I think you are mischaracterizing the former choice.

It's not about just being upset, it's about searching for answers.

Some people are followers by nature, so maybe they have an easier time being "sheep." Others live by the mantra "question everything," and don't change that core value when they approach rooting for their favorite sports teams.

The idea that the latter is somehow better or more an expression of "true" fandom is implicit in the argument.

Then again, other people just like to argue...

Okay okay, bad example. How about this--there are some fans that aren't stupid enough to follow a lemming off a cliff, who will raise an eyebrow no matter who is making horrible decisions; and then there are those that would rather lose than win. Sorry, my inward bias leads to mischaracterizations. . .

[redskincity]

Because....they are not winning the original debate so they flee to their ace card, Which is your love for Gibbs

That sounds like a smack talk request if I ever saw one. Take it to smack, if you have the cojones.

Naw Man its all love I am just saying though............


and why would you think I was pointing at you?

....Oh I know why

[cvillehog]

I think you are mischaracterizing the former choice.

It's not about just being upset, it's about searching for answers.

Some people are followers by nature, so maybe they have an easier time being "sheep." Others live by the mantra "question everything," and don't change that core value when they approach rooting for their favorite sports teams.

The idea that the latter is somehow better or more an expression of "true" fandom is implicit in the argument.

Then again, other people just like to argue...

Okay okay, bad example. How about this--there are some fans that aren't stupid enough to follow a lemming off a cliff, who will raise an eyebrow no matter who is making horrible decisions; and then there are those that would rather lose than win. Sorry, my inward bias leads to mischaracterizations. . .

I'm not sure I "get" this new example, but I understood your first one.

I have a chronic weakness for wanting everyone on the planet to understand every nuance of any argument I ever make, even if I'm making the argument to "back-up" someone elses position that I don't necessarily share. Sometimes that gets me branded as too young, but heck I was called a homosexual on another thread (the gay marriage one), so being called young isn't a big deal!

That having been said, do know that I respect your positions and passions as fans. I guess I feel like other perspectives on this board are greeted hostily, and I feel compelled to defend and explain their (and sometimes our) positions.

Gibbs has been the only successful Redskins coach in my lifetime, and perhaps my expectations were a little high going into the season. But, I am confident Gibbs and his crew have what it takes to restore respectability and winning to this franchise. However, to me, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and throws like a duck, you call it a duck. And Brunell is a duck! hehe

[Scottskins]

wow, now that's deep RIC. What a great line. Rather take this years losses than last years wins...

It reminds me of the year we went to the playoffs and lost to the Bucs. I have never been so stressed as I was that season. I had absolutely NO confidence in that team. Almost felt like everything had to go right for us to win.

It's different now. Lots of things go wrong for us to lose. Even earlier in the season with all the bad stuff Brunell was doing, it still took bad calls, dropped balls, time management issues and turnovers to cost us games. That's such a huge swing. Once Gibbs gets these guys straightened out and mostly eliminates penalties, turnovers and Ramsey gets going, we will be in for a fun ride

[Scottskins]

cville,

Of course Gibbs has made mistakes. Both during the first tenure, and this tenure. In fact, he's made a lot of mistakes. I'm not ready to say leaving Brunell in was a mistake. Nobody knows that. It may have taken this long for Patrick to get ready. But obviously he's made lots of time management mistakes, been predictable at times, challenged plays when he shouldn't have, and things like not running all over cincy when he easily could have. But I have no doubt that the rust will come off, and he'll get things ironed out.

In my view it's fine to discuss and question those types of things. But I also reserve the right to lambast anyone who makes it personal. Just like those who strongly feel the other way, can lambast me back. I just don't understand why someone who says they have no confidence in Gibbs anymore, or that the game has passed him by, or that they hate him, is even watching the games anymore. Because in my mind, hating joe gibbs is as good as hating the redskins. Probably just my view since I grew up with Gibbs. Sorry can't help it

BTW, I'm not saying you are one of the people hating on Gibbs. Just trying to explain why and who gets under my skin when it involves Gibbs.

[Redskin in Canada]

Not everyone who supports a team is a true fanatic...

How about a bunch of guys who spend countless hours setting, managing and organisin the best Skins website in the internet?

How about those guys who research the web for articles about the Skins so that some of us can enjoy them for free?

How about those guys that choose to defend our website from rogue posters and disrespectful people breaking the rules?

Well, those guys are called TRUE FANATICS of the Washington Redskins. I am proud to cyber-walk side by side with them. They are the best fans a team can wish for!

The Skins deserve these core fanatics and the fans deserve these core Skins.

[Redskin in Canada]

Probably just my view since I grew up with Gibbs. Sorry can't help it

I was a Skins fan first and later in time came Joe Gibbs. But that does not change a thing either.

Being a fan means supporting the players that are on the field playing their guts out. It means feeling for their success and sorrow. It means cheering when they make a great play and feeling for them and their families when they get hurt.

I have greater respect for players that may not play well but never quit, than for those that are motivated to put everything on the line only when the win is at hand.

The strength of their character and the size of their heart is more important to me than any other virtue.

[redskinz4ever]

i'm glad to see such a response to my topic and appreciate all that answered my post.
the point i wanted to make out of all this is .....why argue over who is a better fan or who has been a fan longer ....WHAT DIFFERRENCE DOSE IT MAKE ???
i for one LOVE GIBBS and MY SKINS ....but i don't know everything there is to know about them ,thus thats why i'm here to gain knowledge about the past,present, and future of the SKINS !!!i know of many fans on and off this site who know alot more about the skins and i listen to every word or read every word said or printed here at THEHOGS.NET.
i live and breathe burgandy + gold .....i'm about to have my first child (MARCH 21 ) it's a boy.you better believe that he will also bleed burgandy + gold.
i feel that everyone on this site is apart of a family ....most of you i'll never meet, one day i'll be able to see a game in D.C. but we are a part of the "WASHINGTON REDSKIN FAMILY" so yes we will have our differences but we can always agree on the WASHINGTON REDSKINS !!!!!!! REDSKINZ4EVER !!!!!!!!