We should be ashamed of ourselves.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:56 am

My father was born in D.C., and I've been a Redskins fan since the day I was born. Growing up in California, I had always heard about how great the Redskins fans are, how all their games have been sold out since the mid-60's, and how great of a franchise they were. I've been to many, many games, mostly in enemy territory. This year, after seven years of being on the waiting list, I finally realized my dream and got season tickets. My seats are obviously wayyyyyyyyyyy up in the ozone layer, but hey, they're season tickets to the Washington Redskins!!! Not that it's a dedication worthy of any awards, but I've faithfully driven or flown from Boston, Mass to the D.C. area often in the middle of the night, to be at the Redskins home games this year. It is a journey that I'll make any time I have to, and one that I'm proud and happy to make.

As a Redskins fan in the late 70's and early 80's, I witnessed one of the great head coaches in the history of the game coach the Redskins. More importantly though, I got to read about what an amazing human being that Joe Gibbs was. How he effectively gave up his very own family life to dedicate himself to coaching the Redskins. And this year, I hear how he gets the itch to coach again, but couldn't coach anywhere else but in Washington. His dedication and genuine caring attitude to the fans that he represented in the 80's and 90's was truly something to be admired. Once again, he decides to coach his beloved Redskins, and outlines his plan to restore the Redskins to the proud franchise they once were. If this involved winning a Super Bowl, then that's great. We never heard how Joe Gibbs would immediately bring Super Bowl Glory at the expense of long term stability. We heard about "core Redskins" and "long term" plans, but never about quick fixes to a deeply wounded franchise. It seemed, to me at least, that all my prayers had been answered. Boy, what a shock I would get after only nine games into the year!!!

What I saw from the fans at FEDEX field this weekend, was absolutely despicable, disgusting, and downright shamefull. First, the "official" attendance of circa 87,000 was IMO a fairly generous estimate. Nothing could have prepared me for what I witnessed at the BEGINNING of the third quarter in a game that we're down by ONLY 17-0 was one of the lowest points in my Redskins life. Here's why:

The fans have been voicing their opinion about who they want as QB, and indeed have even begun to question Joe Gibbs' reasoning for not putting Patrick Ramsey in. They've booed Mark Brunell (and rightfully so) for his poor performance. They've chanted "Ramsey...Ramsey", seemingly oblivious to the strategy of their very own head coach. Finally, Joe Gibbs decides to make a change, which by the way was not brought about at the request of the fans, but rather by his own decision making process. This is what the majority of the fans had been screaming for. Over copious message boards in cyberspace, they outlined their reasoning, their desire, their frustration, and their ideas about why Ramsey is the man. FINALLY, it happens. And, what do the Redskins fans do in the third quarter of the game that Ramsey comes into, and one that we're down by 17 points??????? We get up and leave the game! What in the hell is up with that? Are we fans of the Redskins or just fans of a winning Redskins team, if and when that might happen?

Anyone that was at that game and had the decency to stay till the end (like myself) should have been horrified at what they saw in the 4th Quarter. FEDEX field was practically empty at the start of the 4th Quarter. What is so wrong with staying to try and support our team, if in no other way than to show that we're still there? Do you think you're really gonna get home that much earlier? Well, not to blow smoke up my own deriere, but try driving back to Boston only to be at work at 8am the following morning!!! That was the most embarrasing and disgusting site I have seen in all my years of being a Redskins fan, and they've been many!!!

We tell ourselves, and seem to actually beleive it, that Redskins fans are among the elite fans in the NFL. How utterly dissapointed we must be today to realize that we don't hold a candle to the "elite" fans. Elite fans wouldn't do that to the coach they care so deeply about. Do we not think that Joe Gibbs NEVER looks up in the stands during a game? Do we not already know that he feeds off of our excitement? Folks, we have a LOT to be ashamed of. If we truly respect Joe Gibbs and what he's trying to do with this team, we have to start all over again. We have to be "core" fans and not just fans. We have to show the Redskins that we're behind them, NOT because of their past glory, but because we simply love this team. We love the coach, the players, and the organization. If that means showing some sort of support like staying a little longer than the third quarter, how hard could that be? It doesn't cost any money!!

If I had an audience with Joe Gibbs today, I'd apologize to him on behalf of Redskins fans. What we did yesterday was disgracefull!! We have the enthusiasm, as is our right, to boo Mark Brunell when in fact, it's ourselves that we should be booing!!

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:12 am

DAYYYYYUUUMMMMM!!!! I was really venting this morning! Before I get called out, please be aware that I wasn't directing any of that at any member of this board. I was merely expressing frustration at those fans that left so early.

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:19 am

HEY !!!! no fair answering your own post !!! :lol:

Redskin Stouff · Post by **Redskin Stouff** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:20 am

JPFair wrote:DAYYYYYUUUMMMMM!!!! I was really venting this morning! Before I get called out, please be aware that I wasn't directing any of that at any member of this board. I was merely expressing frustration at those fans that left so early.

No worries JPFair, I think we all have some venting to do!

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:24 am

It's frustrating. I think Daniel Snyder (and I'm not knocking him for this because I'm all about making $$$ and I think he's a great businessman) might have priced some of the die-hard fans out of the market. Now you've got yuppies going to the game for status. They make their appearance and leave.

I was at the game...in the new 200 section seats...not bad...but not great either. The tix were $79 face value...I got them off ebay for much, much less than that...but If I had paid $79...I would have been pissed that I spent so much to watch such a woeful performance...but, I digress. I was going to point out (prior to my tangent) that right in front of me...four guys showed up to occupy their seats in the 2nd quarter...left at halftime and never showed back up. Why pay the money!!! Just stay at home. Give your tix to someone (who, like me...not bragging..just speaking the truth) will stay to the bitter end?

For all Dan Snyders upgrades...he needs to create a section of el cheapo seats for the common fan to enjoy....I guarantee those people won't be heading for the exits in the 3rd Quarter.

IndySkinsFan · Post by **IndySkinsFan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:24 am

What we did yesterday was disgracefull!!

The way our offense has played is disgraceful, the way gibbs kept putting in Brunell week after week was disgraceful.

They've chanted "Ramsey...Ramsey", seemingly oblivious to the strategy of their very own head coach

His strategy was lame. Ramsey passing for over 200 yards in less than 4 quarters is more than brunell has passed in his last 2 or 3 games TOTAL.

That was the most embarrasing and disgusting site I have seen in all my years of being a Redskins fan, and they've been many!!!

Passing for only 58 yards was the most embarassing for me

If we truly respect Joe Gibbs and what he's trying to do with this team, we have to start all over again

If he keeps starting brunell, i have no respect for his skills as a coach.

If I had an audience with Joe Gibbs today, I'd apologize to him on behalf of Redskins fans

I'd tell him it was about time he benched brunell

If Gibbs does not start Ramsey this week, he has ( in my opinion) lost all credibility as someone who can tell when a QB should be benched.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:29 am

Quote:
What we did yesterday was disgracefull!!

The way our offense has played is disgraceful, the way gibbs kept putting in Brunell week after week was disgraceful.

Quote:
They've chanted "Ramsey...Ramsey", seemingly oblivious to the strategy of their very own head coach

His strategy was lame. Ramsey passing for over 200 yards in less than 4 quarters is more than brunell has passed in his last 2 or 3 games TOTAL.

Quote:
That was the most embarrasing and disgusting site I have seen in all my years of being a Redskins fan, and they've been many!!!

Passing for only 58 yards was the most embarassing for me

Quote:
If we truly respect Joe Gibbs and what he's trying to do with this team, we have to start all over again

If he keeps starting brunell, i have no respect for his skills as a coach.

Quote:
If I had an audience with Joe Gibbs today, I'd apologize to him on behalf of Redskins fans

I'd tell him it was about time he benched brunell

If Gibbs does not start Ramsey this week, he has ( in my opinion) lost all credibility as someone who can tell when a QB should be benched.

I take it all back. This WAS in fact directed at a type of fan on this board. THIS fan!! This guy is NOT a real fan.

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:30 am

IndySkinsFan wrote:

If Gibbs does not start Ramsey this week, he has ( in my opinion) lost all credibility as someone who can tell when a QB should be benched.

first off welcome to the BEST DAMN REDSKIN SITE ANYWHERE !!!!
F.Y.I. man watch the GIBBS bashing some fans around act like they're kin to him or something ... :wink:

if he does not start RAMSEY i'll be P.O.ed bigtime !!! BRUNELL had his chances and blew it , time for the bum to ride the pine.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:31 am

Calm down JP... Let's jsut get your heart medicine... and... there we are, everyone's calm.

Look, I don't find ISF's comments offensive enough to be smack material. If you'd like to start a smack thread so you could have a no holds barred forum to yell about this then fine... but the moderators are usually pretty good about letting us speak our minds.

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:32 am

And...for the record...I did not join in the chants of "Ramsey, Ramsey"...I just thought that was rude. I did, however, cheer when he was put in...I did think it was time.

On a side note....a few "fans" (or,more appropriately, drunks) started chanting "Hasselback, Hasselback" after Ramsey's first series was 3 and out. Mildy humorous.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:33 am

redskinz4ever wrote:F.Y.I. man watch the GIBBS bashing some fans around act like they're kin to him or something ...

It's one of the many churches Annie Savoy tried before Bull Durham. The church of Joe Gibbs. We all must bow before him and detraction from "The Great Leader" in any form will not tolerated!

alwaysaskinner · Post by **alwaysaskinner** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:33 am

I was waiting for JP to holler out this morning, and sure enough, here he is.
I was not, however, expecting that....I live in Orlando, and have made the trek a few times to watch the skins. I've made the offer before, I'll make it again.
ANYONE who cannot go, does not feel up to it, or believes they should sit on their hands, I will go in your stead.
I will: yell for our team throughout the game. Show up early and leave late. Behave myself. Thoroughly enjoy the scene....
Ya'll have a great gift in the team, and the field. USE IT WISELY. There are others who cannot be there, but who would join JP in his observations.
Shame shame shame....

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:34 am

DieselFan wrote:And...for the record...I did not join in the chants of "Ramsey, Ramsey"...I just thought that was rude. I did, however, cheer when he was put in...I did think it was time.

On a side note....a few "fans" (or,more appropriately, drunks) started chanting "Hasselback, Hasselback" after Ramsey's first series was 3 and out. Mildy humorous.

Is a drunk fan not also a fan?

IndySkinsFan · Post by **IndySkinsFan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:35 am

THIS fan!! This guy is NOT a real fan.

If a real fan says all is good no matter how terrible the offense is, then i am not a real fan.

If a fan says the coach is doing a great job, when he keeps the better QB on the bench, then i am not a real fan.

If a fan blindly cheers no matter how inept the team is playing (offensively), then i am not a real fan.

I guess the difference between you and me is, i expect my team to TRY to win games and not just play over priced under skilled players no matter how many games we lose.

welcome to the BEST DAMN REDSKIN SITE ANYWHERE !!!!

Thank you ... the site is great and i hope to pop in often, though not always to incite anger in other posters ... only sometimes :twisted:

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:37 am

IndySkinsFan wrote:
THIS fan!! This guy is NOT a real fan.

If a real fan says all is good no matter how terrible the offense is, then i am not a real fan.

If a fan says the coach is doing a great job, when he keeps the better QB on the bench, then i am not a real fan.

If a fan blindly cheers no matter how inept the team is playing (offensively), then i am not a real fan.

I guess the difference between you and me is, i expect my team to TRY to win games and not just play over priced under skilled players no matter how many games we lose.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:38 am

Mods, can you take this to smack PLEASE?

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:43 am

Well Diesel I completely agree with your first post. There are yuppies galore at those games. It is ridiculous JP that you think the survey of fans you saw yesterday represent the die hard fans like those of us here you are sorely mistaken. We are on the list and will be just like you when we get our opportunity. Right now the only tickets we get are hand me down family tickets. We will be at the Eagles game and we will not leave the stadium until the game is over. Even if it poors or snows or we are down by 50 points. There are too many people going to these games to get drunk in my opinion as well. If you are not capable of walking out of the stadium without slurring or puking then for goodness sake give me your ticket because you are not going to remember the experience anyways.

As far as chanting Ramsey, it was rude but I weight that against Brunnell knowing he was not producing yet going out there over and over again and trying at our expense and also at the expense of our offense's spirit. He could have long ago faked a hamstring a wrist, heck a thumb injury and been on the sideline where he eventually ended up anyways.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:46 am

If a real fan says all is good no matter how terrible the offense is, then i am not a real fan.

No, you're right, but a real fan would appreciate the effort being put in by the coaches, players, and the organization. You're good, you made two good points here. Your first point about real fans is dead on accurate, as is your point about you not being a real fan.

If a fan says the coach is doing a great job, when he keeps the better QB on the bench, then i am not a real fan.

Well, one out of two aint bad. You're wrong about your view of the coach. The coach is doing a GREAT job at bringing this club back to respectability. It takes time. As I said, Joe Gibbs NEVER mentioned short term solutions to a long term problem. However, you're post about not being a real fan is once again dead on accurate. You're good.

If a fan blindly cheers no matter how inept the team is playing (offensively), then i am not a real fan.

Dayum, you're good. You're absolutely right about not being a real fan. However, on the other point, you're wrong. A real fan is a fan irregardless of their struggles. This team is not inept as you claim. They are very talented, and will gel sooner or later. But, then again, you wouldn't look at it that way, because by your own admission, you're not a real fan.

I guess the difference between you and me is, i expect my team to TRY to win games and not just play over priced under skilled players no matter how many games we lose.

WRONG!!! Are you suggesting for one minute that neither the players nor the coaches are trying? If you never proved that you're not a real fan, you just did.

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:46 am

Skinsfan55 wrote:
DieselFan wrote:And...for the record...I did not join in the chants of "Ramsey, Ramsey"...I just thought that was rude. I did, however, cheer when he was put in...I did think it was time.

On a side note....a few "fans" (or,more appropriately, drunks) started chanting "Hasselback, Hasselback" after Ramsey's first series was 3 and out. Mildy humorous.

Is a drunk fan not also a fan?

You are correct....and at $7 a beer...you could call them Rich, Drunk fans.

IndySkinsFan · Post by **IndySkinsFan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:53 am

Get as angry as you like, the team is at 3-6 and that is an abysmal record.

We have not had an offense virtually every game.

When you TRY to win, you play your best players.

Are you saying that we have played our best players every game ? ( excluding those injured ones )

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:54 am

Get as angry as you like, the team is at 3-6 and that is an abysmal record.

We have not had an offense virtually every game.

When you TRY to win, you play your best players.

Are you saying that we have played our best players every game ? ( excluding those injured ones )

Dude, you're showing your age.

IndySkinsFan · Post by **IndySkinsFan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:57 am

Dude, you're showing your age.

smiles ... i think we better stop this childish attacking before the mods step in ... and i am 42

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:59 am

and i am 42

42 what?

JUST KIDDING!!

IndySkinsFan · Post by **IndySkinsFan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:03 pm

JUST KIDDING!!

Great to see we can get past a difference and laugh.

We can agree and we can disagree, but in the end we both love them skins.

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:05 pm

IndySkinsFan wrote:
JUST KIDDING!!

Great to see we can get past a difference and laugh.

We can agree and we can disagree, but in the end we both love them skins.

Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya....

Just kidding....thanks for adding some sense of reason...we'll are on the same team here...well, at least root for the same team.