Give me Ramsey, Or Give me Death...

redskins56 · Post by **redskins56** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:30 am

That's it, I don't care any more. I've held my breath and watched what I've said. I've kept my tongue from saying something I might regret, and as the anti-TO, I watched everhthing I've said. But I'm sick and tired of seeing the league's best defense lay it all on the line, and have nothing to show for it come Monday morning. Sure we beat Detroit, but we almost lost a game we should have put away early in the 4th quarter.

Mark Brunell is ruining my life. It is that simple. He's an incredibly nice guy, which makes it that much harder to not just hate but despise him. The fact is, I don't disrespect Brunell the person, it's number 8 that I see overthrowing open receivers and burning timeouts on Sunday's that I wish evil upon. I've come to this realization though... It isn't his fault. I mean, sure he is the one to blame for his ineffectiveness, and brutal lack of succes. But he can't help the fact that his coaches don't have enough balls to bench him.

That's right, I'm talking about our lord and savior. I realize this is means for a stoning on this site, but let me explain. I'm one of Gibbs' biggest advocates, and to say that the game has passed him by is PREPOSTEROUS. It takes longer than 8 games to turn a team without a winning season in 5 years around.

With that said, him calling Brunell courageous and heroic after every game is not only getting old but it's compelte and utter bull. The only thing that's corageous is that he can show his face in public after playing as bad as he has for the past two months. Gibbs continues to say that Brunell isn't the problem, it's the offense as a hole saying, "we need to work some things out up front before we can try to pass it all over the place." Look at the facts, Portis is averaging over 100 yards a game and has compiled games of 171 and 147 in his past three outings. The line didn't allow a sack yesterday, and 14 total with Brunell playing throught 8 games, not too bad, not too shabby for an offensive line and unit with nothing but problems.

You mean to tell me that Ramsey can't go 6-17 for 58 yards without throwing a pick when all 6 completions are withing 12 yards of the line of scrimmage. You've got something coming to you.

It's about digging deep and doing what's best for the team, something Gibbs has always done before now. So far, he hasn't shown that he is going to, which is surprising considering he has cut four players, two of which started on opening day this season for bad games. It's one thing to play someone you believe in, but when you don't trust a player enough to pass in a crucial game (Brunell threw as many balls as Portis (1) in the second half yesterday) you got problems.

Gibbs should adopt Allen's phrase. The future is now. Ramsey should be the man. No if and's or but's about it.

-Geepz

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:37 am

Man you said it and I agree 100%. Well said.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:53 am

Welcome to the dark side my brother. RC and I have been recruiting heavily lately and we're glad to see that you've accepted our offer. :twisted:

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:35 pm

I guess we'll have to kill you cuz Gibbs isn't changing QB's anytime soon. :lol:

I agree with eveything you said, my friend. I love Gibbs as much as anybody but he is really aggravating me with his stubbornness. Does he not see the same game we see? Brunell is HORRIBLE! He simply can't do anything. It is very nerve-racking to watch him and it's very sickening. I can't stand it.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:23 pm

redskins56 wrote:it's the offense as a hole

Talk about a fruedian slip.....as in a black hole....a big hole that sucks?

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:43 pm

We have to look at every position on offense. Brunell is without a doubt struggling. Another problem on offense that no one talks about is our WRs. I have watched every game and it seems to me that Coles is dropping more balls than he is catching. Since that one hit he took from Roy Williams during the Dallas game, it seems to me that Coles is hearing footsteps coming from behind him and it's breaking his concentration. Our WRs played just as bad yesterday as Brunell did.

For next year, I wouldn't mind going after Drew Brees. Then we should draft Mike Williams for the WR. Then use the rest of our picks for the O-line.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:48 pm

Brandon777 wrote: it seems to me that Coles is hearing footsteps coming from behind him and it's breaking his concentration.

That is what happens when your QB throws behind a WR who is barely 185 pounds soak and wet. Plus he is throwing behind his receivers across the middle.

Lets get rid of Brunnell and put in Ramsey. If the WRs drop the Deep ball then lets bench them to. :wink:

Hooligan · Post by **Hooligan** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:17 pm

Maybe Gibbs really did see great things in Brunell before the season and was the one to convince the owner to fork over the huge contract and $40 mil. If so it may not be an issue of Gibbs admitting fault in his decision and changing the QB, but of Mr. Snyder putting pressure on Gibbs to make his multi-million dollar investment pay off somehow. "I spent HOW MUCH on this guy and you want to BENCH him after half the season???"

There could be more going on than we know.

USAFSkinFan · Post by **USAFSkinFan** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:24 pm

... I was laughing at Carolina last year winning games while completing 8 passes... I never thought a team could complete 6 or 7 passes and win an NFL game... funny thing is, we could easily have won 21-0

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:39 pm

First, Gibbs has not given up on the season. If he switches QBs now he is telling the team it's over for this year.

Second, I believe Gibbs likes Ramsey and wants him to learn how to make as few mistakes as possible. He knows Ramsay is a better passer, but Ramsey must learn NOT to make poorly thought out passes. This is a discipline Ramsey must learn.

Third, if the Skins are eliminated from the playoffs you will see Ramsey play.

skinmadfan · Post by **skinmadfan** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:49 pm

well how many games will brunell need to lose for us to see a new QB

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:59 pm

As I previously mentioned, I think once we become mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:49 pm

redskins56 wrote:That's it, I don't care any more. I've held my breath and watched what I've said. I've kept my tongue from saying something I might regret, and as the anti-TO, I watched everhthing I've said. But I'm sick and tired of seeing the league's best defense lay it all on the line, and have nothing to show for it come Monday morning. Sure we beat Detroit, but we almost lost a game we should have put away early in the 4th quarter.

Mark Brunell is ruining my life. It is that simple. He's an incredibly nice guy, which makes it that much harder to not just hate but despise him. The fact is, I don't disrespect Brunell the person, it's number 8 that I see overthrowing open receivers and burning timeouts on Sunday's that I wish evil upon. I've come to this realization though... It isn't his fault. I mean, sure he is the one to blame for his ineffectiveness, and brutal lack of succes. But he can't help the fact that his coaches don't have enough balls to bench him.

That's right, I'm talking about our lord and savior. I realize this is means for a stoning on this site, but let me explain. I'm one of Gibbs' biggest advocates, and to say that the game has passed him by is PREPOSTEROUS. It takes longer than 8 games to turn a team without a winning season in 5 years around.

With that said, him calling Brunell courageous and heroic after every game is not only getting old but it's compelte and utter bull. The only thing that's corageous is that he can show his face in public after playing as bad as he has for the past two months. Gibbs continues to say that Brunell isn't the problem, it's the offense as a hole saying, "we need to work some things out up front before we can try to pass it all over the place." Look at the facts, Portis is averaging over 100 yards a game and has compiled games of 171 and 147 in his past three outings. The line didn't allow a sack yesterday, and 14 total with Brunell playing throught 8 games, not too bad, not too shabby for an offensive line and unit with nothing but problems.

You mean to tell me that Ramsey can't go 6-17 for 58 yards without throwing a pick when all 6 completions are withing 12 yards of the line of scrimmage. You've got something coming to you.

It's about digging deep and doing what's best for the team, something Gibbs has always done before now. So far, he hasn't shown that he is going to, which is surprising considering he has cut four players, two of which started on opening day this season for bad games. It's one thing to play someone you believe in, but when you don't trust a player enough to pass in a crucial game (Brunell threw as many balls as Portis (1) in the second half yesterday) you got problems.

Gibbs should adopt Allen's phrase. The future is now. Ramsey should be the man. No if and's or but's about it.

-Geepz

what do you want on your tomb stone ??? GIBBS is way to loyal to his Q.B.'s .

Hill66 · Post by **Hill66** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:13 pm

First off I want to say, I would love to see Ramsey in there just as much as everyone else..
But you have to relize that Gibbs' philosophy is don't make mistakes. Not everyone agrees with it, but he stands behind his word.
Patrick had his chance vs the Giants, but threw 3 INT's, and one of them in the endzone. Now if Ramsey didn't throw those, then he would be in, but Gibbs I guess just doesn't have confidence in him after his performance in that game.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:17 pm

Hill66 wrote:First off I want to say, I would love to see Ramsey in there just as much as everyone else..
But you have to relize that Gibbs' philosophy is don't make mistakes. Not everyone agrees with it, but he stands behind his word.
Patrick had his chance vs the Giants, but threw 3 INT's, and one of them in the endzone. Now if Ramsey didn't throw those, then he would be in, but Gibbs I guess just doesn't have confidence in him after his performance in that game.

I don't think that's true. I think Gibbs would've put Brunell back in even without those INTs.

redskins56 · Post by **redskins56** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:23 pm

Hooligan wrote:Maybe Gibbs really did see great things in Brunell before the season and was the one to convince the owner to fork over the huge contract and $40 mil. If so it may not be an issue of Gibbs admitting fault in his decision and changing the QB, but of Mr. Snyder putting pressure on Gibbs to make his multi-million dollar investment pay off somehow. "I spent HOW MUCH on this guy and you want to BENCH him after half the season???"

There could be more going on than we know.

Gibbs is team president and has final say on all personnel. Snyder has dissapeared. He's a huge Ramsey advocate and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't missing him being around.

CrazyLikeAFox87 · Post by **CrazyLikeAFox87** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:54 pm

GoSkins wrote:First, Gibbs has not given up on the season. If he switches QBs now he is telling the team it's over for this year.

Second, I believe Gibbs likes Ramsey and wants him to learn how to make as few mistakes as possible. He knows Ramsay is a better passer, but Ramsey must learn NOT to make poorly thought out passes. This is a discipline Ramsey must learn.

Third, if the Skins are eliminated from the playoffs you will see Ramsey play.

Not sure that I agree with the first part. If he put in Ramsey, he could be saying that he realises that we need more productivity from the QB if we are to consistently win games. We're not getting it with Brunell so give Ramsey a chance before we are eliminated.

I hope so anyway!

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:06 pm

Gibbs doesn't want Ramsey in there because he doesn't want Ramsey's trade value to go down. As long as there is some hype of Ramsey having a lot of upside, there will be a team out there that will cough up some good compensation for him. If Gibbs puts him out there and he stinks it up like he has in the past, no other team will want to give anything for him. Gibbs is looking out for the best interest of the Redskins.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Brandon777 wrote:Gibbs doesn't want Ramsey in there because he doesn't want Ramsey's trade value to go down. As long as there is some hype of Ramsey having a lot of upside, there will be a team out there that will cough up some good compensation for him. If Gibbs puts him out there and he stinks it up like he has in the past, no other team will want to give anything for him. Gibbs is looking out for the best interest of the Redskins.

I don't really think this is a totally valid line of reasoning. Because, won't his trade value be hurt by the fact that Gibbs won't play him instead of the worst-performing QB in the league?

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 pm

cvillehog wrote:I don't really think this is a totally valid line of reasoning. Because, won't his trade value be hurt by the fact that Gibbs won't play him instead of the worst-performing QB in the league?

No. It simply looks like Gibbs is stuck with Brunell because of the $40 million dollar contract. Also Gibbs has been extremely patient with QBs before. Gibbs doesn't want to take the chance of Ramsey suffering from an injury that could hurt his trade value. Also if Ramsey gets out there and throws 3 INTs a game, we'll be lucky to get a 4th rounder from someone. Right now we could get a 2nd for him.

dlc · Post by **dlc** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:28 pm

I don't necessarily know if going to Ramsey eqautes to giving up on the season or accepting the future. Ramsey isn't as raw as Eli Manning or I know that rushing 30+ times a game and specifically saying that we'd avoid passing in order to win, says he's given up his confidence in QB. Tell me which is more detrimental to team moral.

Champsturf · Post by **Champsturf** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:33 pm

Hill66 wrote:Patrick had his chance vs the Giants, but threw 3 INT's, and one of them in the endzone. .

You call that a chance? "BTW Patrick, we need you in there and get us two TD's. Don't let the fact that there is only 10 sec on the clock and we can't run bother you. Just do it."

I don't consider 100% passing situation a chance. He did get us in the endzone once at least.

I don't think the INTs had anything to do with Brunell coming back the next week at all either.

Champsturf · Post by **Champsturf** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:39 pm

cvillehog wrote:
Brandon777 wrote:Gibbs doesn't want Ramsey in there because he doesn't want Ramsey's trade value to go down. As long as there is some hype of Ramsey having a lot of upside, there will be a team out there that will cough up some good compensation for him. If Gibbs puts him out there and he stinks it up like he has in the past, no other team will want to give anything for him. Gibbs is looking out for the best interest of the Redskins.

I don't really think this is a totally valid line of reasoning. Because, won't his trade value be hurt by the fact that Gibbs won't play him instead of the worst-performing QB in the league?

I think that's an excellent point. Ramsey's trade value is going down with each passing Sunday that he's not in there.

I don't remember who said it, but one of you wants Brees? Don't you think he's going to be asking for a big fat check that we won't be able to give since we'll be paying Grandpa Brunell for another 6 years. Ramsey is the only viable option right now. I don't even care if we draft a QB next year. It's going to have to be in the later younds so we can afford him, which also means it'll take a few years to get them even close to being ready, if ever.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:35 am

Hey Brandon, when Ramsey is starting next season and playing at a top 5-10 level in this league, will you then be happy we kept him? Ramsey isn't going anywhere. I hope you won't be too disappointed when we go deep into the playoffs next season.

kwm2354 · Post by **kwm2354** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:45 pm

Quote.
No. It simply looks like Gibbs is stuck with Brunell because of the $40 million dollar contract. Also Gibbs has been extremely patient with QBs before. Gibbs doesn't want to take the chance of Ramsey suffering from an injury that could hurt his trade value. Also if Ramsey gets out there and throws 3 INTs a game, we'll be lucky to get a 4th rounder from someone. Right now we could get a 2nd for him.

3 INT's a game what are you basing your logic on...one game? If you knew anything at all you would refer back to last year and see that Ramsey threw 9 INTs in 11 games...somehow I dont think that averages out to 3 INTs a game.

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Give me Ramsey, Or Give me Death...

Give me Ramsey, Or Give me Death...

Re: Give me Ramsey, Or Give me Death...

Re: Give me Ramsey, Or Give me Death...

Giving up on the season?