portis for QB! someone else for GM

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:20 pm

PORTIS FOR QB! if gibbs seemingly hates ramsey so much, then why not!? anyone would be better than brunell. gibbs is starting to show hints that he's still a coaching genius and will work out a system to work in today's NFL (adapting the running game to portis's talents), but is also showing that he is need of a good GM like he had in his first go-around. brunell would be a decent low-priced backup, but is a horrible high-priced starter.

yesterday i told my friend "the key to this game is avoiding negative touchdowns. If we can keep brunell from scoring TDs for the opposing defense, we will win". Lo and behold, no negative touchdowns ("touchups"?), and victory was attained by the margain of one score.

not scoring negative points won't be good enough to beat good teams, we'll actually have to score a few more of our own.

someone on the defense needs to "accidentally" run over brunell in the parking lot after practice.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:53 pm

if gibbs seemingly hates ramsey so much, then why not!?

With all due respect DCD, you've made yet another post that is factually incorrect. WHEN did Joe Gibbs ever say that he "hates Ramsey so much". Tell me where you got this information from? When was it that Gibbs said such a thing? If you think Gibbs said such a thing, then you obviously don't know Joe Gibbs. That is a very unwise assumption to make.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:58 pm

It's not fair to compare Brunell and Portis. Let compare him to another QB, somebody that hasn't played all year.... saw his first action today... came in with his team down,
Let's compare him to Quincy Carter :lol:

Brunell 6 of 17 for 58 yards no points
Carter 2 of 3 for 66 yards and 1 TD

:puke:

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:10 pm

"yet another" factually incorrect post? first of all, don't insult my posts- i take the time to intelligbly express my opinion, which i have come to through logical consideration of many perspectives. secondly, i never presented this statement ("if gibbs seemingly hates ramsey so much...") as a "fact". hence the word "seemingly". apparently i have crafted my statement much more carefully than you have bothered to read it.

as for gibbs "seemingly hating" ramsey, that is my cry of frustration about the mystery of why ramsey is still on the bench, one that is nearly universally echoed by the posters on these message-boards. clearly it is not meant to suggest that gibbs has a personal grudge against ramsey. but it seems clear that gibbs must not think much of him as a QB, if he is still sitting on the bench while The Worst QB on Earth heaves wobbly ducks up for grabs every sunday.

in conclusion, don't insult someone unless you yourself are "wise" enough to know what they actually said.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:12 pm

1niksder wrote:It's not fair to compare Brunell and Portis. Let compare him to another QB, somebody that hasn't played all year.... saw his first action today... came in with his team down,
Let's compare him to Quincy Carter

Brunell 6 of 17 for 58 yards no points
Carter 2 of 3 for 66 yards and 1 TD

hahah, oh man that truly is gross. hoping everybody realized that my "portis for QB!" idea is a joke, at the expense of how awful brunell is. get it? cuz he's so bad the RB would be a better QB than him, see? get it? ha.

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:19 pm

it's pretty bad when your rb throws the best pass of the game

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:20 pm

die cowboys die wrote:
1niksder wrote:It's not fair to compare Brunell and Portis. Let compare him to another QB, somebody that hasn't played all year.... saw his first action today... came in with his team down,
Let's compare him to Quincy Carter

Brunell 6 of 17 for 58 yards no points
Carter 2 of 3 for 66 yards and 1 TD

hahah, oh man that truly is gross. hoping everybody realized that my "portis for QB!" idea is a joke, at the expense of how awful brunell is. get it? cuz he's so bad the RB would be a better QB than him, see? get it? ha.

Yeah I got it.... but the fact is Portis was the better QB today

THE RAM · Post by **THE RAM** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:50 pm

Ramsey must be the man, Ramsey must be in there but I have to think Gibbs doesn´t like Ramsey at all, Gibbs said Brunell gives us the best chance to win well let´s see 6 for 17 and 58 yards so I guess those are great numbers for Gibbs.
Again no more than 18 points, etc....... Gibbs where is Ramsey.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:19 pm

Yeah I got it.... but the fact is Portis was the better QB today

exactly.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:15 pm

I would remind anyone who thinks that the coach or the staff do not like or are biased in any way against Ramsey that all indications from the media and any "sources" close to the team that the coach (& staff) consider Ramsey a very good QB!

We (who think we know!) are assuming way too much based on our desire for the team to improve offensively.

I have heard on numerous occasions that Gibbs is not convinced (even though its obvious to everyone else) that the offensive "problems" are all due to the QB. It seems to me that he has gone out of his way to reassure everyone that Ramsey is a very good QB and will be the starter when Gibbs thinks the time is right.

Now, while I do not think that Gibbs has any negative feelings at all for Ramsey, I for one would love to see him put Ramsey in there very soon.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:35 pm

i'm not saying you're wrong, but i personally have never heard gibbs defend ramsey at all, especially compared to how he sticks up for brunell.

i'm sure that all the problems on offense can't all be brunell's fault, but i've never accepted that explanation from gibbs- clearly brunell is terrible, so he can't be helping.

those of us who feel that gibbs must be down on ramsey make this conclusion from the fact that gibbs says "brunell gives us the best chance to win", even though brunell is clearly the worst starting QB in the galaxy. this seems to suggest that gibbs deems ramsey to be even worse (the worst QB in the universe?).

think about it- if gibbs thinks that brunell is better than ramsey, that is an extremely severe criticism of ramsey. brunell=dog crap.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:50 pm

die cowboys die wrote:i'm not saying you're wrong, but i personally have never heard gibbs defend ramsey at all, especially compared to how he sticks up for brunell.

He has said Ramsey has a great future with this team.
He calls him a hard worker (Coming from Gibbs that is huge)
He says that he likes the way he runs the scout team

Since it appears that know one is running the first team I think maybe it's time Gibbs gives him a chance....but I've been thinking that for over a month now

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:56 pm

Thanks 1niksder! I just wanted to remind everyone that this is not a anti Ramsey thing!

I have "supported" Gibbs methods but I really think that the 2nd half today has got to have given him some good reasons to get Ramsey in there soon.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:59 pm

He didn't put Ramsey in today but if you really look at it he took the ball from Brunell

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:30 pm

die cowboys die was just expressing the same sentiment from the Week 9 ESPN Power Rankings:

Joe Gibbs continues to stand by Mark Brunell, which makes us wonder how bad Patrick Ramsey has been in practice?

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:35 pm

1niksder wrote:He has said Ramsey has a great future with this team. He calls him a hard worker (Coming from Gibbs that is huge)He says that he likes the way he runs the scout team

action speaks louder than words. of course gibbs is going to defend ramsey if someone asks about him, because he can't have to count on a backup that he publicly humiliated. also, if he wants to trade him this offseason, he can't say "here, have this QB that i said sucks".

the bottom line is that ramsey is running the scout team while brunell is starting. that can mean only one thing- gibbs thinks that brunell is better than ramsey. since brunell is terrible, gibbs must think that ramsey is absolutely abysmal. there would be no possible other reason not to play him now.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:58 pm

When Gibbs speaks of Ramsey he speaks of him in the future and in the future with the Skins, if he wanted to trade him for any reasaon weather he didn't like him or thought that he wouldn't fit his system he would have done it when he had teams beating down the door to get him. He didn't trade him because just like he said he likes him and feels Ramsey has a future with this team.
Ramsey is still learning how to be a NFL QB, he started his career as a hold out(valuable time that he'll never get back) and then he had the great Ball Coach teaching him the ropes (Ramsey had more time in today's NFL than SOS). He came into this year not knowing how to run a pro offense but he is learning. Gibbs says he is making strides in this area.
But it may be time for some OJT

SkinsLaVar · Post by **SkinsLaVar** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:02 pm

Portis for qb baby.

1fan4ramsey · Post by **1fan4ramsey** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:09 pm

Portis has better QB rating than Brunell, LOL.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:53 pm

1niksder wrote:Ramsey is still learning how to be a NFL QB, he started his career as a hold out(valuable time that he'll never get back) and then he had the great Ball Coach teaching him the ropes (Ramsey had more time in today's NFL than SOS). He came into this year not knowing how to run a pro offense but he is learning. Gibbs says he is making strides in this area.
But it may be time for some OJT

what's an OJT?

but seriously, yeah you are actually echoing sentiments i've been expressing for quite a while, so i don't think we disagree in our assessment/defense of ramsey. i believe that ramsey has the talent to be one of the top 5 QBs in the league, for a long time. i've also said that it's entirely spurrier's fault for messing ramsey up (brainwashing him into an incorrect QB philosophy, and getting him shellshocked).
i guess where you and i differ is that i feel the only way ramsey will get past what spurrier did to him is by playing through it. i don't think practice is the same- that same adrenaline doesn't kick in, so you can't practice dealing with your reaction to it, the way it affects your cognition and physiology.

but then again what do i know? perhaps gibbs truly believes in ramsey's talent, his future, and sees that he is really shook up from spurrier's reign of terror. maybe gibbs senses that ramsey is in a fragile developmental state right now, and would in fact be irreperably damaged by going out and playing now before he's ready, and having more bad experiences. lord knows i hope this is true, i hope that next year, a stable ramsey mans the helm and flings missles 50 yards downfield, opening up huge holes for portis.
i just wish gibbs would tell us if this is what is going on. however, he might be further protecting ramsey's psyche (or at least his pride) by withholding this info from the public-- making a public declaration "he's fragile, and we're having to baby him" wouldn't really be the kind of thing gibbs like to say publicly about anyone.

so maybe i can still have faith that there is sanity in the universe, that gibbs is still a god and not a fool, if i cling desperately to this belief. anyone with me?

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:03 am

Portis has better QB rating than Brunell, LOL.

and he throws a nicer pass too

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:06 am

On the Job Training....

Yeah I totally agree Ramsey should be in there and really don't see why he isn't. But I know it's not because Joe doesn't like him or because he thinks he is worst than Brunell.

I think Gibbs put Ramsey in during the Gints game and realized that he needs more work in practice before he'll put him in. I think with some practice with the starters Gibbs would have no problem putting him in, but like he has said in practice the starter takes all the snaps

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:41 am

here's hoping gibbs makes the decision to put ramsey with the first-team at practice this week... we should know in a day or two.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:22 am

die cowboys die wrote:
1niksder wrote:Ramsey is still learning how to be a NFL QB, he started his career as a hold out(valuable time that he'll never get back) and then he had the great Ball Coach teaching him the ropes (Ramsey had more time in today's NFL than SOS). He came into this year not knowing how to run a pro offense but he is learning. Gibbs says he is making strides in this area.
But it may be time for some OJT

what's an OJT?

but seriously, yeah you are actually echoing sentiments i've been expressing for quite a while, so i don't think we disagree in our assessment/defense of ramsey. i believe that ramsey has the talent to be one of the top 5 QBs in the league, for a long time. i've also said that it's entirely spurrier's fault for messing ramsey up (brainwashing him into an incorrect QB philosophy, and getting him shellshocked).
i guess where you and i differ is that i feel the only way ramsey will get past what spurrier did to him is by playing through it. i don't think practice is the same- that same adrenaline doesn't kick in, so you can't practice dealing with your reaction to it, the way it affects your cognition and physiology.

but then again what do i know? perhaps gibbs truly believes in ramsey's talent, his future, and sees that he is really shook up from spurrier's reign of terror. maybe gibbs senses that ramsey is in a fragile developmental state right now, and would in fact be irreperably damaged by going out and playing now before he's ready, and having more bad experiences. lord knows i hope this is true, i hope that next year, a stable ramsey mans the helm and flings missles 50 yards downfield, opening up huge holes for portis.
i just wish gibbs would tell us if this is what is going on. however, he might be further protecting ramsey's psyche (or at least his pride) by withholding this info from the public-- making a public declaration "he's fragile, and we're having to baby him" wouldn't really be the kind of thing gibbs like to say publicly about anyone.

so maybe i can still have faith that there is sanity in the universe, that gibbs is still a god and not a fool, if i cling desperately to this belief. anyone with me?

I'm definitely with ya on that one DCD. Gibbs knows what he's doing. It's painfull watching Brunell play, but just imagine how good we will be next year if Ramsey plays even half of his potential. This team is very very good except for the QB spot. We are going to the show very very soon. What a difference coaching makes eh?

Well, our FA signings the last two seasons haven't hurt either :lol:

cept for brunell of course lol

Amberion · Post by **Amberion** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:08 am

OJT is on job training