The Fans/Brunell/Gibbs/Defense/Refs my two cents

[DEHog]

THE FANS
Yesterday I was embarrassed to be a Skins fans. First I want to say the Packers fans were all class, very well behaved. This was very refreshing after having to deal with the Boys and Ravens fans. They have great fans to go with their great franchise. I’m continually amused by the statement that we have the best fans. First we start the to chant Ramsey…Ramsey. Do you stop to think what this does to Brunell? He stated that it’s hard to not be affected by it..I believe it contributed to Gibbs calling him courageous. How bout the Packers, do you think they enjoyed hearing the visiting team boo their player? Wibon compared us the Philly fans. Then I witness Redskins fans throwing things at Packers fans for just cheering their team. Then with 10 minutes left in the game, 30,000 or so of you get up and leave?? What is it that make you leave a game were your team is down less than 14 points? I’ll be honest when Portis scored what seems to be the go ahead TD I was laughing at the fans who left! Then on top of that I hear people calling for Gibbs head?? Do us all a favor turn in your season tickets!! I would love to sit down stairs and cheer my team on!

BRUNELL
Brunell alone is not the problem, he may be a small part of the problem but Ramsy is not going to “save the season” Do any of you really think Ramsey could have succeeded yesterday. Ok so he can throw the ball down the field, what good is that if you can’t give him the time to do so. Brunell was 25 of 44 (same as Peyton Manning).His rating was better than Farve’s. How many of those throws were thrown away or hurried because of poor pass protecting. If the TD to Portis stands he has over 250 yards passing, 3 TD”s and he doesn’t throw the 2nd Int. We gave up 5 sacks to a team that had a total of 10 coming in. Not one could handle Grady Jackson, he wreaked havoc in our backfield. Did it ever occur to you that Gibbs doesn’t want to play Ramsey behind this line? Maybe Bugel has told him not to because he’ll get killed. Maybe Gibbs and company have figured out they need to get some of their “own guys” in here next year. This is backed up by the rumors the that the Skins tried to trade Samuels and the 5 pick to get Gallery and they drafted two lineman in the draft. You pass to score, your run to win. The passing game is not our primary problem right now. Portis has two 100 yards game, guess how we did when he did so??

GIBBS
As the one reporter in the post put it…Gibbs is as a conservative coach as there is in the NFL. Yesterday he turns into Mr. Vegas. A reverse, Gardner pass, onside kick, going for it on 4th and 13. What this told me was Gibbs didn’t feel like he could line up his 11 against their 11 and beat them. I think Gibbs is doing his best with what he’s got. He pressed for a win yesterday (and almost got it) when we are “officially “ eliminated from the playoff watch how good we play! I trust Gibbs, he will right this ship, it may not be this year, are you as a fan going to stick around for it? Or do you bail now and jump back in when Gibbs starts winning?

THE DEFENSE

Count me among the very few who didn’t think the Skins D played all that well yesterday, gutsy yes, well no. They gave up way to many yards in the first half. Did anybody notice the penalty on Smoot that kept the first drive alive. How bout all the penalties on Marshall? Yes in the second half they played better, the picks… that’s Farve he just threw two of them up. Did anyone notice the 57 yard TD pass that Driver dropped? If he catches that it 27-7 lights out game over. If the Portis TD stands, Farve still has 2+ minutes to get a field goal. I would have loved to have seen that, it would have told us a lot about were our D it at. I just never got the feeling like we could win the game, the Packers dictated the whole game. Still all in all they did their best with many starters out against a great team. Farve was so much fun to watch he can really make the football do some things that no other QB’s can. Sam Huff commented that he was on the field watching Farve warm up. He said he only seen two people throw the ball like that, Farve and the other on is on the booth with me.

THE REFS

Ok so you want to believe the ref was a democrat and threw the flag on Thash as he saw the electing slipping away?? Come on do any of us really believe the refs have something against us?? I like what Joe Jacoby said on 980 after the game. As a team you don’t want to be in a position where one play or one call loses the game for you. I agree totally.Any fans who think so just doesn’t really understand football

[Jake]

I?m continually amused by the statement that we have the best fans.

I agree... all the fans that came around this year are fair-weather and really suck. I'm totally with ya there. The fans quit on this team to easily so Gibbs is definitely a liar when he says we are the best fans.

First we start the to chant Ramsey?

I was one of the ones chanting his name. The first time the fans chanted it was after Brunell had his arm tipped and it was picked off, I think. That definitely wasn't his fault. I thought Brunell had a halfway decent game but I was just frustrated with the offense in general and wanted soemthing to be done about it. Brunell was classy enough to sign autogtraphs after the game, though.

Then on top of that I hear people calling for Gibbs head??

I'm not that stupid. I would never do that. I agree... send them home and don't let them have season tickets. Saying something stupid like that is ridiculous.

[Champsturf]

THE REFS

Ok so you want to believe the ref was a democrat and threw the flag on Thash as he saw the electing slipping away?? Come on do any of us really believe the refs have something against us?? I like what Joe Jacoby said on 980 after the game. As a team you don’t want to be in a position where one play or one call loses the game for you. I agree totally.Any fans who think so just doesn’t really understand football

I agree. One bad call shouldn't make or break a game. I for one do not think the refs are out to get us. That being said, it was not just one call. There's a pic in the USA Today showing Portis getting mugged by someone before the ball was there. No call. That tripping call on Smoot was stupid as well. I think he got tripped, but I would have said it was incidental. It did NOT look intentional to me at all. Someone else in here also said that on Brunell's final INT that Gradner was being mugged so bad his jersey was off his pads (I think joebagodonuts said it).

You asked how many of Brunell's passes were thrown away or hurried due to poor pass protection...I can't answer that but I do believe that it's part of the game and if he's such a seasoned vet, then he should be able to deal with it. It also doesn't account for him consistently overthrowing WIDE open receivers on third downs. It's pretty bad when even the two morons in the booth could see that.

About the fans, that's too bad. I am sorry to hear that they were acting in such a manner. I too would have been one chanting for Ramsey, but hey, I've been doing that here for about 6 weeks now. As far as throwing things at opposing team's fan, classless. Not my style at all. I think they have every right to be there cheering a winning product on.

[1niksder]

As usual great post DE

I agree... all the fans that came around this year are fair-weather and really suck. I'm totally with ya there. The fans quit on this team to easily so Gibbs is definitely a liar when he says we are the best fans.

I'm hoping JG is talking about the true fans when he says that. I don't think a person can be fair-weather and a fan either way we can do without them

[Brandon777]

That's an excellent post DE. When the crowd started chanting for Ramsey, I got sick to my stomach. I can't stand seeing a QB like Brunell, who has been solid his whole career, get so disrespected. I feel that I need to write him so I can tell him to keep his head up. Favre made some comments about that too. He said that Brunell is doing his best to help the Redskins win. He said he felt bad about the chanting.

I wish people could put themselves in Brunell's shoes. He comes to a new team where most of the fans(I'm not one of them) didn't want him here. How would you guys feel if your job moved you to another state and your neighbors didn't want you there and people were blaming everything on you 24/7? It's BS if you ask me. If I was Brunell, I probably couldn't help to feel deep inside thinking "Screw these fans. Why should I get myself killed out there when these butt-hole fans never gave me a chance. Screw it. I'll collect my fat Redskin paycheck like every other player has done over the years and retire.

Critics that said our O-line was terrible before the season started were right on the money. They are really struggling from what I can see on T.V. I personally don't think Ramsey will be here next year. I feel that they don't want to start him at all this season because they are afraid his trade value will go down.

I do think that call by the Refs was absolutely horrid. He didn't throw the flag until Portis was scoring the TD.

[NikiH]

Thank you Brandon and I'm sorry fellas but that PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that they have something against us. You do not see a foul at the line, at the time of the snap and hold on to the flag for a full minute to a minute and a half until the touchdown is scored. Total BS and not just a bad call.

And no one completely moronic call should not make or break a football game but did you notice what that did to our team after that? We were still in it. We needed a turn over but our D has done that before in a time of need. They were deflated. Those refs completely stole our momentum and our spirit. There is no way in hell that it was not the cause of the loss.

Another thing is Brunnel is not the ONLY cause for this loss but he is a cause. He had plenty of time n a quite a few passes that he just totally missed. The interception he was under pressure but there were several times he was not. I would not have ever boo'ed him but as a fan whose Sundays have been ruined by these losses I would have been right there with Jake and wanted to see a change. There isn't a whole lot else that could have been changed at that point.

And last but certainly not least, I respect our coach. I always will. He did great thingss for this organization and may do great things again. HOWEVER I feel it is my given right to question anyone I think isn't doing their job 100%. I think McCants needs to be in there. And so far Gibbs' reasoning does not fly with me. I will not call for his head but I really think a fan who truely believes he's not doing well has the right to say that if they want. It was ok to call for Spurrier's head and we all did it, but not Joe Gibbs? It's premature to do it now, in my opinion but other people's ideas are not based on my opinion.
I respect you DE you are a good guy, you do alot around here, and you are a great fan. But I don't think it's fair to think these people are any less fans because of their opinion.

[SkinsLaVar]

Yeah, why didn't he throw the flag as soon as he saw it?

[NikiH]

It was stuck in his pocket next to his freaking glasses!

[DEHog]

Niki fans are entitled to their opinions and i don't think of them any less to do so. It's their actions I question. Imagine having customers in your office chanting for someone else to do a project the boss gave to you it very dishearting. They call themselve fans yet they leave with 10 min to go and miss a great Skins comeback.

As for the ref you'll nothing I didn't say it wasn't a bad call true is it was a horible call and I have a real problem with the ref throwing it as late as he did?? My point is we shouldn't be in a position to let a refs call beat us.

I know Brunell it struggling it's just my opinion that he is the lesser of three evils.

Why aren't we talking about a lack of a running game. We have the great Clinton Portis who's suppose to get 1500+ yards??

[patjam77]

again DEHog.. i wonder what game you were watching!!!! Brunell had all the time in the world to make at least 4 3rd down throws!!! you say he is only a small part of the problem??? TEAMS DON'T RESPECT HIS ARM!!!! darren sharper said it.. every other team has said it!!! get back into reality. gibbs is makking an awful decision by not playing ramsey. every single game this year teams are stacking 8 up at the line... why? cause no one cares if brunell hits one pass cause he'll miss the next two! just unreal.

also what game were you watching???? the D played GREAT! by the skins offense sucking do damn bad it gave the packers an extra 3 or 4 possesions during the game and they held them to 20 points to keep them in the game. i have no problem with you personally i don't know you.. i just don't understand these comments.

[NikiH]

I agree that it is crazy that people leave early from any game. We could be losing by 30 points and I'd not go anywhere. Some people who have those tickets do not appreciate them. And that makes me sick for the thousands of us on the waiting list.

I don't think the Defense was totally up to par but that is to be expected. So many people are out with injuries it's hard for them to keep going. HOWEVER no other team that lost like that had 3 int's. I just wish we could have done more with those interceptions.

[redskincity]

Its hard to debate that our defense was good, when you see the opponent has 28 points up on the board.


....Also the fact that Farve was going against the #1 ranked defense compared to Brunell going against the 17th rank defense leaves alot to be desired.

[spudstr04]

This fan will never quit on his Skins, I belive in time the Skins will be back to their old ways.....hopefully....

[SkinsBigtime]

That is ridiculous to have fans throw stuff at Packers fans trying to enjoy the game. I don't want redskin fans being compared to Philly fans at all. Philly fans like being dirty, its their nature and they know it. We all should have character like Gibbs wants his team to have.

[SkinsFan4Life]

Wow! DEHog, I agree with everything that you said. Well put.

In regards to the booing fans. That was quite embarassing. It reminds me of the time in 1992-1993 when fans were booing the hell out of Mark Rypien. This was the QB who was a year removed from being the SB MVP.

If cheering fans can be given credits for contributing to a win (as the 12th man), shouldn't booing fans get some blame for contributing to a loss. Booing our team send a message to the visiting team that they don't have to work very hard to secure a victory.

[hailskins666]

i just don't agree. you suck, you get booed. cold hard fact..... i'm certainly not going to sit and clap when brunell misses a wide open cooley in the endzone..... or when he throws a pass at the play clock in the back of the endzone. or when the water boy and camera crew has more receptions than the receivers. maybe its just me.

[SkinsFan4Life]

You don't have to clap ... Just don't boo our team.

Were the Packers fans booing Brett Favre when he threw those interceptions?

[Texas Hog]

Great post DEHog. I couldn't agree more with each and every segment of your post.

Regarding the fans...I was watching the Skins game while listening to both the Skins and pukes' game. It amazed me how even when the pukes were down, their fans were still much louder,(at least on TV) than ours. With the size of our crowds that amazes me. Why don't our opponents have problems with noise? Is it the configuration of FEDX or the fans?

Again, great post...well articulated, wish I would have said all of it first!

[hailskins666]

Were the Packers fans booing Brett Favre when he threw those interceptions?

yes. well at least the cheeseheads sitting in front of us were. they were saying some pretty funny stuff.

[Jake]

Were the Packers fans booing Brett Favre when he threw those interceptions?

You couldn't hear them over the cheering from the Skins fans.

[AnnMarie]

Fed Ex field is not really a home advantage for the skins anymore. When they play good teams, usually the stands are full of alot of the opposing team.

Mr Synders greedy endevours has ensured this.

[doroshjt]

When the crowd started chanting for Ramsey, I got sick to my stomach. I can't stand seeing a QB like Brunell, who has been solid his whole career, get so disrespected.

His career wasn't made here, I don't have to respect him for playing well with another team. He sucks now and shall get booed. Its a clean slate when you come to a new team, what have you done for me lately. Portis shows up and wins us the Tampa Game, and is ranked number 9 in the league. I think with a respectable QB you get his numbers up. Brunell is 27th in passing yards and ratings. As fans we are in effect paying for his playing and the only way to show our displeasure in his performance is by booing when he sucks it up or clapping when he lights it up. I don't remember clapping for him very much this year do you?

[Brandon777]

When the crowd started chanting for Ramsey, I got sick to my stomach. I can't stand seeing a QB like Brunell, who has been solid his whole career, get so disrespected.

His career wasn't made here, I don't have to respect him for playing well with another team. He sucks now and shall get booed. Its a clean slate when you come to a new team, what have you done for me lately. Portis shows up and wins us the Tampa Game, and is ranked number 9 in the league. I think with a respectable QB you get his numbers up. Brunell is 27th in passing yards and ratings. As fans we are in effect paying for his playing and the only way to show our displeasure in his performance is by booing when he sucks it up or clapping when he lights it up. I don't remember clapping for him very much this year do you?

Why didn't you boo the O-line for the poor protection? Why didn't you chant Betts, Betts when Portis was struggling in previous games? Why didn't you chant McCants, McCants when Coles was dropping balls?

[doroshjt]

I don't think its the O-line, I think it was redskinscity who pointed out that brunell drops back 7 steps then rolls the entire line has to roll with him, its got to be hard to keep up with him, when he stays in the pocket he has time, I think betts sucks a fatty, why would i want an inferior player, at QB, brunell is the inferior one. Coles dropping passes, McCants is the one inactive, can't come in, wish he would though, I might start that chant.

Last night Gibbs was asked about mccants and why he was given the 2million dollar bonus, he responded with "i didn't give it too him" man he really doesn't like him at all.

[doroshjt]

I think this sums it up for me:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/2 ... -4020r.htm

These fans can't get no satisfaction now


By Dan Daly
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

As Joe Gibbs discovered Sunday, FedEx Field isn't nearly as home-sweet-homey as dear old RFK Stadium was. There's a whole new dynamic at work there, one he's only beginning to butt his head against. And things could get worse before they get better.
The chants of "Ram-sey! Ram-sey!" that filled the air during the loss to Green Bay were something Coach Joe never heard in his first tour of duty. Oh, there was the occasional expression of dissent from the stands, but it was usually isolated and inconsequential — nothing like the loud, almost angry outbursts that assaulted his ears over the weekend.

It's a totally different crowd now, a totally different scene. FedEx is a cavernous coliseum of 92,000 seats, not a quaint bandbox of 55,000. That means there are 37,000 more fans that Gibbs has to satisfy — another whole stadium practically. And they're not the same diehards who used to troop to RFK each Sunday, season after season, to root, root, root for the Redskins. They're folks who came a lot later to the party ... and find themselves thinking, more and more: I spent 20 years on the waiting list for THIS?
It's not just that, though. It's also the money they're shelling out. They're paying the second-highest ticket prices in the NFL for an inferior product, for a team that has made the playoffs only once since '92. Jack Kent Cooke charged top dollar too, of course, but at least his clubs won — sometimes the whole shebang.
And it's not just the tickets that are expensive. Everything's expensive — parking, concessions, Redskins paraphernalia. Worse, all game long you're bombarded, visually and auditorially, with one not-so-subliminal message: buy, buy, buy.
Yup, the whole stadium atmosphere has changed. It's not just about football anymore. It's about grabbing the customer by the ankles, turning him upside down and shaking until his pockets are empty.
Loyalty only runs so deep when a team takes advantage of fans like that, when the owner charges admission to training camp one year, attempts to renegotiate club seat contracts another and is currently trying to keep fans from walking to games (thereby avoiding his exorbitant parking fees). After nearly half a season of crummy quarterbacking by Mark Brunell, is it any wonder that some of Redskins Nation are mad as hell and not particularly inclined to take it anymore?
Perhaps Gibbs missed this development, was too busy watching his racecars go 'round and 'round to notice what was going on with his old team (and to a lesser extent, throughout the entire league). Let's face it, the whole world has become less civil since 1992. Talk radio has gotten uglier and uglier. On TV, cable especially, discussion shows have degenerated into shouting matches. And Joe Sixpack, going with the flow, has never exercised his First Amendment rights more — what's the word? — heavy-handedly.
But how can Coach Joe expect the fans to exercise patience, to show restraint, when the owner rarely has himself? Dan Snyder has spent the last five years firing coaches, going through quarterbacks like cheap cigars and thumbing his nose at the salary cap. Should anyone be surprised that Redskins rooters have begun to mirror his behavior (or misbehavior, as it were)?
If Joe Gibbs weren't Joe Gibbs, Hall of Fame coach, two things would likely be happening right now:
1. His boss would be pressuring him to bench Brunell and start Patrick Ramsey, the People's Choice.
2. If Gibbs didn't submit — and the offense continued to average 14 points a game — there's a chance he'd be fired and replaced by an interim coach ... perhaps Pepper Rodgers.
And the merry-go-round would start spinning again.
It's not your father's NFL — and they're certainly not your father's Redskins. You have first-round draft picks, extravagantly paid, DUI-ing themselves out of important games. You have fans demanding, with the vociferousness of Vietnam protesters, a "regime change" at quarterback. And you have an old coach trying to make sense of this strange new world, so different from the one he used to know.
"I told the guys, 'I've never been through something like this,' " he said after the loss to the Packers. " 'I've been 0-5, but this is every bit as tough.' "
Is it ever.