Monk better than Irvin

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:07 am

First off I just want to say Irvin was a great talent.He was also a Big play receiver.But he probably could have won a couple more Superbowls if not for his eratic behavior off the feild.Monk on the other hand was the consimate professional. He brought leadership by example on and off the feild.Every Redskin who has ever played with him benefited from the experience.He made the whole team better.He was to the redskins offense Like Ray Lewis is to the Baltimore Ravens.Intangibles are the driving force to any championship period. Irvin was great But not the leader Monk was and still is.And the debate about full seasons played.Part of being a Great one is having the intelligence to take care of yourself so you can go a whole season.He contributed more to his team with stats and on a leadership standpoint so to me there is no debate Monk is better hands down. This is especially for the cowboys fan who infiltrated into the skins domain. Bottom line is Art Monk contributed more to his team the stats dont lie he leads in virtually every receiving category.Michael Irvin belongs in hall of fame.But better than Monk no way. The cowboys could have got by without Irvin. But the redskins championships could not have been possible without Monk there.ps. stop smoking the sticky icky patrick got your judgement all cloudy

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:01 am

Monk

is better than Monkey

Irvin.

redskindave · Post by **redskindave** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:22 am

Yep!.. Monk was better

patrickg68 · Post by **patrickg68** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:22 am

How can you guys bash Irvin for smoking crack and at the same time compare Monk favorably with a man who was involved in a murder?

DallasCowboysFan · Post by **DallasCowboysFan** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:12 pm

Man that's gonna be tough, Monk should be in the HOF no doubt! I can't believe he is not in yet, especially looking at his stats and other WR's already in.

However Irvin is a shoe in first ballot, he has to be!

Irvin has 12, 11 1/2 Seasons
96 yards shy of 12,000, 750 catches, 65 TD's, 5 Time Pro Bowler, 3 Time Super Bowl Winner

Monk has 16, 15 1/2 Seasons
279 yards shy of 13,000, 940 catches, 68 TD's, 3 Time Pro Bowler, 2 Time Super Bowl Winner

Stats wise Irvin is the better receiver, I would say they both meant about the same to their teams though. Gonna be tough, how many times has Monk been up for HOF now?

TCWest, whats your take on the Irvin vs. Monk debate. I know how much you want Monk in. I actually wanted Hayes in before Irvin, but I guess he will never get in now! Hard to imagine the guy that single handedly changed the WR position and the way defenses covered WR's wouldn't be in, but we are used to the Dallas Bias!

SkinsFan4Life · Post by **SkinsFan4Life** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:27 pm

HEROHAMO wrote:The cowboys could have got by without Irvin. But the redskins championships could not have been possible without Monk

I think that Monk ought to be in the HOF.
However, the above argument is a weak one
since Monk was injured the year the Skins
won their 1st SB (1982-1983). I believe they
won the SB without Monk. He played only the
first half of the season.

elchalje · Post by **elchalje** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:27 pm

Monk was an incredible, disciplined receiver. Always there shere you expected him to be. Great hands, etc. Michael Irvin was somewhat opposite, less discipline, less likely to be where you expected him to be--but willing and able to do what ever it took to win a game--which he did frequently.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:01 pm

patrickg68 wrote:How can you guys bash Irvin for smoking crack and at the same time compare Monk favorably with a man who was involved in a murder?

Are u going the OJ Simpson route.Michael Irvin belongs in the hall of Fame. Im just saying Monk was a better total player professional.He was more of a leader. When you live a wild life off the feild it cuts your career shorter than it could have been.And if your wild behavior brings other teamates along like Nate Newton Deion Sanders Mark Tuinei rest in peace.Then you have hurt your team.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:08 pm

SkinsFan4Life wrote:
HEROHAMO wrote:The cowboys could have got by without Irvin. But the redskins championships could not have been possible without Monk

I think that Monk ought to be in the HOF.
However, the above argument is a weak one
since Monk was injured the year the Skins
won their 1st SB (1982-1983). I believe they
won the SB without Monk. He played only the
first half of the season.

Well he was injured the first championship.But he did give the Redskins fifteen sixteen seasons.And can you imagine the team without him during that tenure.He was there for Two of the Three Superbowls.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:31 pm

DallasCowboysFan wrote:Man that's gonna be tough, Monk should be in the HOF no doubt! I can't believe he is not in yet, especially looking at his stats and other WR's already in.

However Irvin is a shoe in first ballot, he has to be!

Irvin has 12, 11 1/2 Seasons
96 yards shy of 12,000, 750 catches, 65 TD's, 5 Time Pro Bowler, 3 Time Super Bowl Winner

Monk has 16, 15 1/2 Seasons
279 yards shy of 13,000, 940 catches, 68 TD's, 3 Time Pro Bowler, 2 Time Super Bowl Winner

Stats wise Irvin is the better receiver, I would say they both meant about the same to their teams though. Gonna be tough, how many times has Monk been up for HOF now?

TCWest, whats your take on the Irvin vs. Monk debate. I know how much you want Monk in. I actually wanted Hayes in before Irvin, but I guess he will never get in now! Hard to imagine the guy that single handedly changed the WR position and the way defenses covered WR's wouldn't be in, but we are used to the Dallas Bias!

When you live a wild life off the feild and some of your teammates follow Like Nate Newton Deion Sanders and who knows who else. You now are a liability to your team. When you ingage in activitys off the feild that can potentially hurt the play of you and your teamates. You can not ignore that when evaluating what a player has done for his career and what value he was to his team.If not for that who knows maybe he could have gone on longer. But he didnt so he hurt his team.

patrickg68 · Post by **patrickg68** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:07 pm

You guys keep talking about Irvin like he just burned out. The only reason he retired is because he had a SPINAL INJURY. I don't see how you can hold that against him and say that he wasn't tough enough or durable enough.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:19 am

Hey Ill always think Monk is better and youll always think Irvin is better.Bottom line is I am a skins fan you are a cowboys fan.Do I think Monk was better heck yeah. But is that going to change your mind probably not.Even though Art Monk has more on his Stats.Michael Irvin has comparible stats but you guys started the Irvin is better thing.So I had to come out firing the facts. You cant deny we owned the Cowboys in the eightys and you guys owned us in the Ninetys.But Gibbs is back now Parcells is in Dallass . And i got to admit where would Football be without the Redskins Cowboys Rivalry.To be honest I would not watch Football if the cowboys happened to disappear.Though I want to beat the snot out of them .We need the Cowboys just as much as you need the skins. So in closing I say Monk is better. :nana:

Bruiser · Post by **Bruiser** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:24 am

Flag on the play!!!

Irvin is without a doubt better. Whatever happened to Art Monk? Is he doing porn now? I have his card somewhere? Somewhere? Is his rookie card worth anything? Please let me know I'll look harder.

RemyLab · Post by **RemyLab** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:28 am

WOW First of all let me say i have great respect for Monk.

Irvin was the man in dallas, dont be hatin. It is eating some of you up that Irvin may go into the Hall before Monk.

Dont Worry Monk will get in but Irvin was clearly the superior reciever.

One

RemyLab · Post by **RemyLab** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:53 am

HEROHAMO wrote:First off I just want to say Irvin was a great talent.He was also a Big play receiver.But he probably could have won a couple more Superbowls if not for his eratic behavior off the feild.Monk on the other hand was the consimate professional. He brought leadership by example on and off the feild.Every Redskin who has ever played with him benefited from the experience.He made the whole team better.He was to the redskins offense Like Ray Lewis is to the Baltimore Ravens.Intangibles are the driving force to any championship period. Irvin was great But not the leader Monk was and still is.And the debate about full seasons played.Part of being a Great one is having the intelligence to take care of yourself so you can go a whole season.He contributed more to his team with stats and on a leadership standpoint so to me there is no debate Monk is better hands down. This is especially for the cowboys fan who infiltrated into the skins domain. Bottom line is Art Monk contributed more to his team the stats dont lie he leads in virtually every receiving category.Michael Irvin belongs in hall of fame.But better than Monk no way. The cowboys could have got by without Irvin. But the redskins championships could not have been possible without Monk there.ps. stop smoking the sticky icky patrick got your judgement all cloudy

Herohamo i guess you missed that NFL network special on Irvin, how we was the emotional force of the Cowboys, how Troy Aikman could not imagine playing without him. How he was a consumate proffesional to all his teamates, the hardworking man on the field all season round. How the league had to change rules up because he was a big, intimadating reciever. I dont know where you get this leadership stuff from only being related to Monk. I guess all the things people said about Irvin went in one of you ears and out the other, but then again its hard to hear when you are not trying to listen.

ONE

SkinsLaVar · Post by **SkinsLaVar** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:00 am

Irvin's a crackhead. lol

RemyLab · Post by **RemyLab** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:03 am

SkinsLaVar wrote:Irvin's a crackhead. lol

Ok and you told us that bit of useless information because.........

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:08 am

Bruiser wrote:Flag on the play!!!

Irvin is without a doubt better. Whatever happened to Art Monk? Is he doing porn now? I have his card somewhere? Somewhere? Is his rookie card worth anything? Please let me know I'll look harder.

REVIEW CALL FROM THE BOOTH {head referees descision} "after reviewing the play the call on the feild stands MONK IS AND Always will be Better. THE Dallas cow Manewer heads are charged with a timeout. Monkey

RemyLab · Post by **RemyLab** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:10 am

HEROHAMO wrote:
Bruiser wrote:Flag on the play!!!

Irvin is without a doubt better. Whatever happened to Art Monk? Is he doing porn now? I have his card somewhere? Somewhere? Is his rookie card worth anything? Please let me know I'll look harder.
REVIEW CALL FROM THE BOOTH {head referees descision} "after reviewing the play the call on the feild stands MONK IS AND Always will be Better. THE Dallas cow Manewer heads are charged with a timeout.

To quote Gambit "Dont Be hatin"

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:10 am

http://www.nynews.com/newsroom/020202/02stantonco.html
Interesting read.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:49 am

Art Monk Facts

-From Pro Football Reference.com
*Among The Leagues all time Top 50 Receivers
#5 in Receptions (Irvin- #13)
#9 in Receiving Yards (Irvin-#11)
#29(t) in Receiving TDs (Irvin-#34(t) )
#26 in Yards From Scrimmage (Irvin-#31)

-11 Seasons with at least 16 starts (Irvin-7)
-224 Total Games Played (Irvin-159)
-63 Yards Rushing for 332 yards (5.3 avg.) (Irvin-6 Rushes, 6 yards, 1.0 avg. (See ? Different type of receiver.)

Quotes:
Barry Stanton, Rockland Journal News
“ If Art Monk doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame, you might as well not have one.”

The Sporting News: His name rolls off the tongue softly, quietly, befitting the man it identifies. Art Monk is almost as proud of his relative anonymity as he is the record-setting numbers he compiled over a 16-year NFL career. He was Washington's Quiet Man, the go-to wide receiver for four Super Bowl teams. When Monk spoke, it was usually with tough catches in the clutch moments of big games.
Big (6-3, 210) and physical, Monk was a wide receiver in a tight end's body. Unable to dazzle anybody with his speed, he became a route-running technician who would go outside or inside with fearless defiance. Nobody was more consistent on medium routes over the middle, football's no-man's land of broken ribs and shattered careers. Third down and other key situations belonged to Monk, who turned cornerbacks around with his quick moves and long, graceful stride. He also was adept at positioning his large body to seal off smaller defensive backs before gathering the ball.
Nothing came naturally for Monk, who spent countless hours on the practice field and many more behind the projector. The workmanlike dedication paid off in consistency and earned the appreciation of understanding Redskins fans. Monk, who spent most of his career trying to avoid the spotlight, gained reluctant acclaim in 1984 when he caught 106 passes, a season record that stood for eight years, and in 1992 when he passed Steve Largent and temporarily became the all-time receptions leader.
Throughout a career that ended in Philadelphia in 1995 and produced 940 catches for 12,721 yards and 68 touchdowns, Monk was seldom mentioned among superstar receivers. Despite five 1,000-yard seasons and a then-record 183 straight games with at least one catch, he was named to only three Pro Bowl teams. But those who worked with Monk appreciated his value. "Quiet about his work, very loud with his results," former Redskins quarterback Mark Rypien said.
Jonathan Daniel, AllSport-
“During his sixteen-year career, Art Monk set a variety of National Football League records. He was the first player to catch more than 900 passes, first to catch 106 passes in a single season, and first with at least one catch in 178 consecutive games.”
WarPath-
Wide Receiver . . . 6-3, 210 . . . Syracuse . . . 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles . . . 16 seasons, 224 games . . . Selected by Washington in 1st round (18th player overall) of 1980 draft . . . Prototype for today’s bigger, stronger receivers . . . Caught 58 passes as a rookie and was unanimous All-Rookie choice . . . Had 50 or more receptions in a season nine times . . . Gained 1,000 or more receiving yards in a season five times . . . Set then-NFL records for catches in a season (106), most consecutive games with at least one reception (164), and career receptions (820). . . Finished career with 940 catches . . . Had finest season in 1984, catching eight or more passes in six games, five games of 100-plus receiving yards, and in one game caught 10 passes for 200 yards . . . Named Redskins 1984 Most Valuable Player . . . First Redskin to produce three consecutive 1,000 receiving yard seasons . . .. A three-time Pro Bowl selection, was All-Pro choice in 1984 and 1985 . . .
First- or second-team All-NFC three times . . . Born December 5, 1957 at White Plains, New York.
If elected . . .
Art Monk would be the 16th Washington Redskins Hall of Fame member. He would join George Allen, Cliff Battles, Sammy Baugh, Bill Dudley, Albert Glen "Turk" Edwards, Ray Flaherty, Joe Gibbs, Ken Houston, Sam Huff, Sonny Jurgensen, George Preston Marshall, Wayne Millner, Bobby Mitchell, John Riggins, and Charley Taylor.

More to follow, if the demand is there.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:03 am

Signed, sealed, delivered!

Amen brother

patrickg68 · Post by **patrickg68** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:26 am

I don't think that career stats are necissarily the best indicator of who was the best player. If you look at what they averaged per season or per game, Irvin leads Monk in pretty much every category. Just take a look at a similar situation. Jim Brown is something like 7th in all time rushing yardage, and yet is considered by many to be the best running back ever. Should he be penalized because he didn't hang around to pad his stats like some backs. Or look at baseball. Is Hank Aaron considered a better baseball player than Babe Ruth? Or was Pete Rose better than Ty Cobb?

BRAVEONAWARPATH · Post by **BRAVEONAWARPATH** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:31 pm

patrickg68 wrote:I don't think that career stats are necissarily the best indicator of who was the best player. If you look at what they averaged per season or per game, Irvin leads Monk in pretty much every category. Just take a look at a similar situation. Jim Brown is something like 7th in all time rushing yardage, and yet is considered by many to be the best running back ever. Should he be penalized because he didn't hang around to pad his stats like some backs. Or look at baseball. Is Hank Aaron considered a better baseball player than Babe Ruth? Or was Pete Rose better than Ty Cobb?

Look Patrick..this is a pointless. I can't prove that Monk
was better than Irvin and you can't prove that Irvin was
better. Let's agree to disagree.....

BRAVEONAWARPATH · Post by **BRAVEONAWARPATH** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:33 pm

And one more thing...if Irvin is a Hall Of Famer....then so
is Gary Clark. I know you agree with me..Patrick.

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