A Different QB?

MO-HOG · Post by **MO-HOG** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:57 pm

I think it's time to give Patrick Ramsey as chance. Mark Brunell has had an opportunity to show what he can do,and he hasn't done the job. The same reason he isn't with Jacksonville now.

How much worse can it be? Ramsay has more going for him than Mark. So Mr gibbs is a great coach,let's see if he can work his magic with Patrick.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:23 am

You obviously don't know Joe Gibbs. He is not going to put Ramsey in unless injury warrants it.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:30 am

Ok JP, I don't think you can definitively say that. My Joe's own admission this is a different kind of NFL. He has already made adjustments and done things people consider out of character for him, in comparrison to his first run as head coach.

I believe this year is a learning year. And in my opinion anything above last year's record will be a great success. So with that same philosophy in mind, I think Patrick should be in there. What better time for him to learn this offense and the many things he needs to pick up to be our star QB. Let him rebuild with the rest of our team. Let him build his skills while we have not quite so much at stake as say next year or the following year.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:15 am

NikiH,

I never said that I myself don't think Ramsey should be in there. I'm merely saying that Joe Gibbs is not going to replace him this early in the year. Joe Gibbs is fiercely loyal to his players, and especially his QB. Even when Joe Theismann was having a lousy year in 86, and everyone was saying he needed to be benched, Gibbs didn't even think about benching him. It was only because Theismann broke his leg that made him put Schroeder in.

The QB is no different from the rest of the team. It needs time to implement and learn the nuances of a new system. Why should Ramsey have the upper hand on learning it over Brunell? Because Brunell has had 3 bad games? I don't think so. Didn't you see the way Ramsey performed in the pre-season? What makes you think it's going to be any different just because Brunell hasn't learned the new system yet? While Brunell hasn't been superb, he has shown some maturity that Ramsey is sorely lacking. When Brunell has a bad SEASON, then maybe he'll think about replacing him. But, four games into a new system is not sufficient reason to bench the starting QB. If anyone thinks that Ramsey himself can save this season, they're sadly mistaken. Most of the problems we've had this year are far removed from the QB position. Portis gaining 58 yards on 28 carries, is that Brunells fault? The O-line not doing their job, is that Brunells fault? The special teams not giving us consistent field position, is that Brunells fault? Should we replace the entire O-line since they're not performing? Should we replace Portis since he's not performing? If we need to replace Brunell just cuz he's not performing, hell, why don't we just replace the whole team and see if the bacups can do a better job? My point is this: This is a TEAM sport, it is not a sport that is won or lost by the performance of one person. Granted, it's a critical part of the team, but Brunells performance hasn't been so pathetic to warrant him being replaced so early in the season.

Liken it to this, if I received a promotion at work and they started threatening that they're going to fire me after six months because I haven't learned all the elements of the new system, I'd be outraged as I'm sure most people will. IT ALL TAKES TIME!!!!

Few people realize the damage that Spurrier did to Patrick Ramsey. In many ways, and rightfully so, it's like Ramsey is in his first year of playing in the NFL. Very few QB's can shine in their first year. Certainly, they can't be expected to perform at the highest level. Ramseys time will come.

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:41 am

I guess after week 4 he should be a pro-bowler????? Maybe we should call Brunell "Johnny 5" (the robot from the movie Short Circuit), because anyone who thinks he knows the whole playbook or all of his WR's by week 4, must also think he's a robot! Can we give him time before we jump ship! Let's not forget he didn't play almost ALL of last year, he still has to adjust to his "NFL speed" again.

doroshjt · Post by **doroshjt** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:48 am

Um. Kurt Warner is 3 and 1 and is in a new system. He must be a robot. Stop making excuses for these guys, maybe they just aren't very good. With our defense we should have a much better record. And this is suppose to be the easy part of the season.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:52 am

Is Kurt Warner 3-1 or are the Giants 3-1? One person does not a team make.

doroshjt · Post by **doroshjt** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:55 am

Either way, its a new system in NY and they are winning. Each week that passes before we "turn it around" puts us further behind playoff potential. I don't think its to much to ask for my team to win.

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:05 am

Don't blame Brunell. If you want the truth, it's our best players that have been letting us down. I hate to say it, but Portis has cost us dearly in 2 games this season and Coles has made some key mistakes, as well. Gardner cost us the Giants game.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not bagging on those guys. It's just amazing to me how quickly we point blame at the QB. Portis, Coles and Gardner are going to WIN us games this season...unfortunately, right now...they have had some great moments and some really piss poor ones.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:17 am

Either way, its a new system in NY and they are winning.

Do the New York Giants have 23 new players on their roster? In any event, that's like comparing apples to oranges. There's still a lot of football to be played, and to say that Giants are winning is a little premature. They're 3-1 and lucky to be so. Let them do their thing, and focus on the Redskins.

alwaysaskinner · Post by **alwaysaskinner** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:37 am

The oddense responsa, is run by, and depends on ONE man. That man plays quarterback. The man currently in that position is sucking majorly. As soon as he touches the ball he is looking to get rid of it as quickly as possible, and find the nearest exit off of the field. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING!
Tap dancing constantly in the backfield is NOT an option under a Joe Gibbs system. The quaterback must be comfortable STAYING in the pocket (remember Rypien?).
Mr Brunnell needs time to sit on the bench and ponder these (ond other) thoughts. Mr. Ramsey is the superior athlete out of the two, and will be able to prove that in short order. Mr. Hesselbeck (sp?) is a better athlete than Mr. Brunnell. The guy selling peanuts is a better athlete than Mr. Brunnell. Are you beginning to see the gist of this thought?

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:43 am

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:44 am

The oddense responsa, is run by, and depends on ONE man. That man plays quarterback. The man currently in that position is sucking majorly. As soon as he touches the ball he is looking to get rid of it as quickly as possible, and find the nearest exit off of the field. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING!
Tap dancing constantly in the backfield is NOT an option under a Joe Gibbs system. The quaterback must be comfortable STAYING in the pocket (remember Rypien?).
Mr Brunnell needs time to sit on the bench and ponder these (ond other) thoughts. Mr. Ramsey is the superior athlete out of the two, and will be able to prove that in short order. Mr. Hesselbeck (sp?) is a better athlete than Mr. Brunnell. The guy selling peanuts is a better athlete than Mr. Brunnell. Are you beginning to see the gist of this thought?

Dude, I hate to sound critical, but that was the biggest load of garbage of I've ever read on this site. To comment on it further would only justify it's existance.

alwaysaskinner · Post by **alwaysaskinner** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:08 am

JP,

You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.
You DO sound critical, and closed minded. Consider your remarks disregarded. Move on, nothing to see here.....

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:14 am

HASSELBACK? HASSELBECK? HASSELBECH.....HASSELHOFF....HASSEL SOMEBODY SEND HIM IN. HE ATLEAST SEEMED COMPOSED AS OPPOSED TO DOUBLE CLUTCHING AND RUNNING AROUND LIKE A RAT IN A CAGE.

doroshjt · Post by **doroshjt** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:17 am

Hasselback was the only qb in the preseason that looked like he "got" the offense. Now admittedly that was against people no longer in the NFL so who knows. I think it really comes down to a bad O line and WR not making the plays.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:17 am

Consider your remarks disregarded

skinner, please do so. Accordingly, I will consider your original point rambling, baseless, and downright hilarious.

alwaysaskinner · Post by **alwaysaskinner** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:35 am

JP

LOL. WHO pissed in your wheaties this morning? This is an open forum. Rest and relax lad.

SkinsFan4Life · Post by **SkinsFan4Life** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:47 am

Brunell gives us the best chance of winning right now. Over his 11-year career, his QB rating is 85.0. As "badly" as he has played over the first 4 games, his QB rating for the 2004 season is still 79.5.

As comparisons, Ramsey's career number is 72.7. His best year was 2003 (75.8 QB rating). These numbers do not lie. Brunell is the better QB right now.

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:58 am

Gibbs has said it himself, the best QB plays.

He is backing Brunell now but he wont hesitate pulling him. Gibbs has pulled QB's before. Didn't he bench Schroeder for Doug Williams?

Brunell has not done anything bad, but he hasn't done anything good either. We need a spark. If you take out the interceptions Ramsey threw vs the Giants then you deffinately saw the "spark", he connected on a lot of big plays. The interceptions were due to lack of practice time during the week.

I WANT SOME SPARK!!!

welch · Post by **welch** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:15 am

Gibbs will replace Brunnell with Ramsey if and when he thinks that Ramsey can play. So far, that time is "not yet", and the "if" is still an "if".

Gibbs sees these guys every day, and judges what he sees.

Why and how did he bench Schroeder? It took about half of the season, and happened because (a) Gibbs decided that Schroader, for all his powerful throwing, did not have the smarts that Doug Williams had, and (b) Gibbs had another kid named Mark Rypien waiting and learning.

So far, Gibbs indicates that Brunnell has learned more of the offense than Ramsey. Ramsey looked rough and unready for two years under Spurrier, and during this pre-season.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:28 am

Welch, to add to this I also think that Joe and the coaches are putting in those player that they think give us the best chance to win. When they think that Patrick is going to do that he will be in there.
There were a lot of people who felt that Sean should start much earlier, but he certainly has not produced in a game yet. Greg (and the assistants) could see that he was not ready for the job but apparently that was forced to be a little earlier because of injuries. I think that Sean will be a very good player in the near future, he is just not quite there yet. Nor are we as an all round team yet!
We are allowed to feel very disapointed BUT this is a better team than last year and we are getting better. IMO we are better than the our last 3 opponents BUT did not win on the field. Give it time people, our time is coming and we will be respected again.

jaw32 · Post by **jaw32** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:51 am

On Brunell:

The announcers said it during the early part of the game. They said that Brunell said that it's the first time he has been "instructed" that if the play breaks down, WRs are covered, or if the pocket is collapsing, then "don't force it, don't run, but throw the ball away". Let the defense do their job and let's not make mistakes.

I think Brunell has done that.

"Brunell can't throw down field". 95% of the pass plays called are dinks; Brunell is throwing the short ones or throwing it away. Seriously, how many long throws are even called?

Let's face it, the Skins are trying to play ball control and strong defense. The problem is that you can't make mistakes (fumbles and drops) and be successful. We keep ending up 3rd and long and I don't see the WRs getting open in those scenarios.

Maybe the answer is to scrap the H-back, spread out 4 WRs (we have quality depth at WR) put Portis in the I and let it rip. I don't think that is going to happen.

I will defend Brunell until he is asked to throw deep balls and can't do it (besides in the obvious 3rd and long situation).

If you want scapegoats:

1) Fumbles
2) Motion and procedure penalties
3) Run blocking - pulling lineman are getting obstructed by too much DL penatration and can't even lead the run. There is no reason in the world there should be penetration on a run play, at least break even.
4) Dropped passes. Some of the passes are a little high, but a pro WR should be abble to bring in a pass that is 8 feet high 99%.
5) Adjust play calling if 8 men are in the box.
6) And yes Brunell can play better, but at this time he is not the problem.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:04 pm

Good post Jaw. Brunell was only part of the problem. The play calling was just awful. Portis keeps dropping the damn ball and Coles - don't get me started. The penalties are a lack of concentration and poor sense of team. The decision to take a knee in the first half chaps my butt cheeks too. At the same time, this defense really played another solid ballgame. They played well enough to keep the Skins in the game - and the offense didn't put the darn ball across the goal line. The offense is the reason we're at 1-3 - one unit is dragging down the team.

gundo · Post by **gundo** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:26 pm

This one is easy -- the Skins are 1-3 because the players are not executing the plays. It is not one or two players, but the entire team (offense, defense and special teams) that is failing. Can this be turned around? Sure. But, it'll be up to the players to make it happen.

I'm not saying that no blame lays on the coaches, because some of it does. Gibbs and Co. need to adjust to the shorter playclock and increasingly aggressive defenses. Williams and Co. need to adjust to the FB/TE flare on the blitz-side. But, above all, the players need to make plays.

I have been on teams that have underperformed. Some have turned it around and finished strong, and some have mired in the funk. But what I have found is that such a turnaround is often sparked by one play (usually on defense) like an interception returned for a TD that wins a game. One play that brings the team together and "teaches" them how to win. We have to remember, this team has not "won" in a long time. Gibbs knows how to win, but this team does not. All it will take is one big play.

Sunday night will be a huge opportunity for one of those big plays to turn this season around. And with LaVar coming back, I'm going to look for him to make it happen.

A few wins in a row, and 1-3 will be a distant memory.