NikiH wrote:Sorry but after the hit Gannon took it should be illegal every time. Regardless of the opinion of whether the player is "defenseless" or not, because that obviously is a judgement call.
Maybe we can just hang little flags off their belts and tackle them that way? Come on, it's football.....How would Ronnie Lott play today, How would Cliff Harris play today? They get softer and softer every year and it always benefits the offense. Wiley gets a penalty cuz his hand hit Brunell in the helmet? Isn't that what the helmets for? Are you telling me that a hand to the helmet is such a hard hit that is deserves a penalty? Tell a boxer that!
Philly Lost!
Couldn't have happened to a nicer team or a nicer set of fans!
When they decided to do instant replay, they tried to do it in a way that wouldn't slow the game down too much (and failed miserably). Being able to challenge non-calls would make things even worse.
RIP 21
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
DallasCowboysFan wrote: Key word is defenseless and Gardner had already turned to run after the catch.
The hit that Roy Williams will probably be fined for is the one on Coles, not the one on Gardner. Coles never caught the ball, therefore helmet to helmet contact was illegal.
LOL Jansenfan is my husband DCF, that's why the sleeping on the coach comment. And I wasn't going to ask your girlfriend if I could date you, I was going to ask her to make you sleep on the couch. But since you have a wife I know I could convince her to do it!
Helmets can only do so much unless we make them protect the neck, and I'd like to see players move around like that. Ain't happenin'
Last edited by NikiH on Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Whenever I start to get blue, I just breathe!
My favortie line from the Simpsons:
Flanders: "Looks like someone is having a pre-rapture party!"
Homer: "No Flanders, it's a meeting of gay witches for abortion , you wouldn't be interested!"
[quote="DallasCowboysFan] Key word is defenseless and Gardner had already turned to run after the catch.[/quote]
i beg to differ. i watched the end of the game again (to quell all the gibbs-not-looking-at-parcells garbage), including several replays of the final play. gardner barely got both feet down before roy whacked him. he had not turned to run at all.
I'm a jack of all trades, the master of three
Rockin' the tables, rockin' the mikes, rockin' the young lay-dees.
This year has been the worst officiating I have ever seen. The spot they gave Brunell in the first game when he clearly made it to the 1, the pass interference calls, the punt fumble, Portis's knee, the TO catch, the fumble that Kearse picked up and would have scored on but they called him down, the fumble that Sean Taylor caused,... A few of those were understandable (the fumbles mainly) but the general sloppiness on the refs part is unexcusable, especially as often I have seen refs far away from plays overruling and being incorrect. I have also seen a number of five yard chuck flags thrown where the contact clearly occured before the reciever got five yards down field. The standard has been aweful in every game I have seen around the league. Additionally, the interception in the first half that we had to review was clearly incomplete, I cannot believe that they did not see that.
Over the past few years, since replay has been back the 'Skins have gotten burned many, many times on forced fumbles. You know, when the ball comes out and the refs blow it dead. I have not seen the same frequency of these missed calls in other games. Lavar gets burned on this a lot. I think the main problem with the current replay system is that because coaches must always challenge, if it's iffy the refs don't call it. I say the refs should have the option to just call the booth and get a quick ruling if they are not sure. Why does the guy have to go over to the sideline and waste everybodies time? Each crew should carry an extra guy in the booth who can make a call and just tell the guys on the field. Than when the ball comes out they can play on unless the call is obvious. This would take more time but it's silly that so much is unreviewable if you're going to have replay at all. Also, I think having the head of the crew go to the sideline just makes the process even slower and more infuriating.
"We're not going to be the pushovers of the NFL, we're gonna push over some people!" - Clinton Portis
NikiH wrote:LOL Jansenfan is my husband DCF, that's why the sleeping on the coach comment. And I wasn't going to ask your girlfriend if I could date you, I was going to ask her to make you sleep on the couch. But since you have a wife I know I could convince her to do it!
Helmets can only do so much unless we make them protect the neck, and I'd like to see players move around like that. Ain't happenin'
I have a 7 week old that won't sleep through the night, I would be in Hog (no pun intended) Heaven if I got to sleep on the couch! My best stretch of sleep has been 4 1/2 hours in the last two months!
Philly Lost!
Couldn't have happened to a nicer team or a nicer set of fans!
NikiH wrote:HK Your idea sounds good but since when does the NFL care about what is easiest?? LOL
DCF almost there, hang in there! Before you know it the baby will be sleeping through the night and you'll find yourself waking up anyways. LOL
Then, when the baby gets a cold or something and does get up in the middle of the night for the first time in months, you'll wonder how you ever did it before.
DallasCowboysFan wrote: Key word is defenseless and Gardner had already turned to run after the catch.
i beg to differ. i watched the end of the game again (to quell all the gibbs-not-looking-at-parcells garbage), including several replays of the final play. gardner barely got both feet down before roy whacked him. he had not turned to run at all.
The play I have watched shows Gardner push off, catch the ball get both feet down while facing the way he needs to run and then takes two steps to run while ducking his head. Maybe this will help.....
Video
Philly Lost!
Couldn't have happened to a nicer team or a nicer set of fans!
Ok DCF I'm sorry but he barely had his feet on the ground. I definitely would say he fits the "defenseless" thing. But again this is why it's a touchy issue, it's a judgement call.
Whenever I start to get blue, I just breathe!
My favortie line from the Simpsons:
Flanders: "Looks like someone is having a pre-rapture party!"
Homer: "No Flanders, it's a meeting of gay witches for abortion , you wouldn't be interested!"
Nah...I've got legit gripes with the pass interference call and the non-call on Gardner in the endzone...but the non-call at the end of the game is not an issue. Gotta agree (regrettably) with DCF on this one.
Let's face it...if the roles were reversed (score, who had the ball, everything) and it had been Sean Taylor making that hit and not Roy Williams, we would have all been claiming the hit was legal. AND, let's say they did throw a flag...to a man, we would have all been irate.
It's football! Not the ballet!
"I've got a fever. And the only prescription is more cowbell."
It's not the ballet, did someone memo that to Tory Holt???
Seriously it's football but it's not battle to the death football. For saftely reasons somethings need to be held up, helmet to helmet is one of those things.
Whenever I start to get blue, I just breathe!
My favortie line from the Simpsons:
Flanders: "Looks like someone is having a pre-rapture party!"
Homer: "No Flanders, it's a meeting of gay witches for abortion , you wouldn't be interested!"
DallasCowboysFan wrote:The play I have watched shows Gardner push off, catch the ball get both feet down while facing the way he needs to run and then takes two steps to run while ducking his head.
i disagree. gardner gets two feet down after the catch and williams whacks him. i also disagree with the push off thing. not only did gardner push off, but he also grabbed the jersey and pulled.
i'm not upset at all about that supposed non-call. it's way too close to call, and, as someone else put it, it's football. i'm just trying to correct those who say that gardner had two feet down, turned to run, stopped to tie his shoelace, scratched his bum, and THEN was hit by williams.
I'm a jack of all trades, the master of three
Rockin' the tables, rockin' the mikes, rockin' the young lay-dees.
I don't remember saying he had a smoke while waiting on Roy. Watch the replay, just watch his feet and you can count 4 feet down.....both feet then both feet again. Obviously if he had more time before the hit he might have tried to get out of bunds.
So a push and a pull is ok? I guess they cancel each other out? Even though, it makes it hard to jump while being pushed and pulled?
Philly Lost!
Couldn't have happened to a nicer team or a nicer set of fans!
DallasCowboysFan wrote:I don't remember saying he had a smoke while waiting on Roy. Watch the replay, just watch his feet and you can count 4 feet down.....both feet then both feet again. Obviously if he had more time before the hit he might have tried to get out of bunds.
never said you did. i was exaggerating. i watched the tape, and i saw him get two feet down before williams popped him. either way, i don't think you can say that gardner had turned to run, or was attempting to get out of bounds, or was doing anything other than trying to land. i don't think it matters anyway, i'm not crying about whether the hit was legal or not.
DallasCowboysFan wrote:So a push and a pull is ok? I guess they cancel each other out? Even though, it makes it hard to jump while being pushed and pulled
my bad, i should have used the sarcasm button on that one. gardner most definitely interfered with the defender, no question. i was just playin' with ya.
Last edited by joebagadonuts on Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'm a jack of all trades, the master of three
Rockin' the tables, rockin' the mikes, rockin' the young lay-dees.
NFL officials are without question the worst at their jobs of any major league sports officials given the number of people they have on a field (the NBA refs are a close second).
I grow so tired of the "you have no idea how hard it is to officiate an NFL game ..." That is correct, I do not but I also am not, nor do I have a desire to be, an NFL official (or any kind of official for that matter).
If a team of engineers builds something that later collapses, they do not have the luxury of outlining the inherent difficulties of the engineering field. Not quite analagous, but you get my point.
And now the league has asked a group of old, mostly white men to penalize any excesive celebration and to what end? These guys routinely blow game-changing calls but they are all over it when two players celebrate together. Why in god's name does it matter?
The day I see the following headline is the day I will agree that celebrations have gone too far:
"Long snapper snaps ball after first touchdown, thousands dead"
That's all.
DieselFan wrote:Nah...I've got legit gripes with the pass interference call and the non-call on Gardner in the endzone...but the non-call at the end of the game is not an issue. Gotta agree (regrettably) with DCF on this one.
Let's face it...if the roles were reversed (score, who had the ball, everything) and it had been Sean Taylor making that hit and not Roy Williams, we would have all been claiming the hit was legal. AND, let's say they did throw a flag...to a man, we would have all been irate.
It's football! Not the ballet!
I never thought I'd say this about a Cowboy, but I think it was a great play. The hit on Coles was good too. Roy Williams is an amazing Safety. I'm just waiting for Sean Taylor to do that!
tx_skins_fan wrote: The hit at the end looked clean.
Gardner would be the 1st to disagree with you...
No flag? A day after the NFL conceded error on a pair of calls in the Cowboys game, wide receiver Rod Gardner wondered why Dallas safety Roy Williams didn't draw a flag on the game's final play. Gardner caught a 46-yard pass on the play but couldn't get out of bounds, permitting time to expire. However, Williams launched into the air and appeared to make helmet-to-helmet contact with Gardner. A flag would have given Washington a chance to kick about a 24-yard field goal to send the game to overtime. Asked about the no-call, Gardner said there "had to be" a penalty.
Should have went into overtime...but the Ref's had somewhere to be
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{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-
When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....
curveball wrote:His full quote mentioned something about him never even thinking about it when he was on the field, only after he saw the film did he think about it.
Anyone who's played any football knows whether or not they were hit helmet to helmet instantaneously.
The Redskins Coaches made some errors in game time managment that came back to hurt them. There are many who simply blame the refs for the loss. Redskin fans are still crying so I will post a few errors that went their way which weren't called...
Is this legal? Pushing off and then pulling him back while jumping for the ball.
Or this? Facemask and what could be helmet to helmet hit?
Neither of these were called as a penalty in the game. But the Redskins are crying about the PI on Glenn. If anything it should be PI on BOTH players. Not to mention Portis 12 yard run when he was down on contact short of the 1st down. Refs are human and will make mistakes for you and against you. Thats football deal with it...
Last edited by turdfurguson on Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just kidding.
