Officials Under Fire

redskinsranger · Post by **redskinsranger** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:28 am

Apparently a Hall of Fame coach doesnt get a break from the officials. Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs on Tuesday reviewed the previous nights loss to the Dallas Cowboys and dtermined he was on the wrong side of "two awful calls." "Both of them were touchdowns; both of them go against us." Gibbs said. Disputable calls that went both ways played a significant part in Dallas' 21-18 victory.
.........."...Gibbs said both plays had been sent in to the NFL office for review."

I back Gibbs 100%...this is quoted from the Des Moines Register......this is really, really, sad.

K19 · Post by **K19** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:39 am

And taken directly from "The Washington Times"

Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs yesterday expressed displeasure with a pair of officiating calls in Washington's 21-18 loss to the Dallas Cowboys on Monday night, and the NFL responded by conceding its crew made two mistakes.
A club source said league officials reviewed the two plays in question — a pass interference call on Redskins cornerback Walt Harris in the first quarter, and a no-call on a deep pass to Rod Gardner in the fourth quarter. The league conceded error in both cases.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20040928-114300-8708r.htm

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:50 am

K19 wrote:And taken directly from "The Washington Times"

Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs yesterday expressed displeasure with a pair of officiating calls in Washington's 21-18 loss to the Dallas Cowboys on Monday night, and the NFL responded by conceding its crew made two mistakes.
A club source said league officials reviewed the two plays in question — a pass interference call on Redskins cornerback Walt Harris in the first quarter, and a no-call on a deep pass to Rod Gardner in the fourth quarter. The league conceded error in both cases.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20040928-114300-8708r.htm

What about the calls that went against the Cowboys? Any of those under review?

Also, did Williams get a fine for helmet-to-helmet on that last play? I thought I heard on some sports show that they thought he would. I bet he'd say it was worth it...

K19 · Post by **K19** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:06 am

I'm sure they probaably are but whats it matter at this point? The games over and its not going to change anything. Thats not an answer as a "'Boys fan" thats an answer as a realist. My answer would be the same if the roles were reversed. As I said earlier and replied to your reply.

Great teams overcome bad call, neither of these teams are great and at this point to even say good would be stretching it.

Nothing to see here, please move along

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:13 am

I think you misunderstand me.

I would like to see the officials taken to task for ALL their bad calls.

They tried to ruin a perfectly exciting game. As football fans, we are lucky the game stayed interesting and both teams continued to play with a lot of heart (one of the advantages of good coaching). I've seen games in the past that just turned into total snore-fests because the officiating took the wind out of the sails of the players and the game.

Also, I'm interested to know if Williams got a fine for the helmet-to-helmet even though it wasn't called a foul in the game (That is a foul right? I've seen it called before, but usually over the middle of the field.). I know LaVar Arrington got a fine for the grabbing Tiki Barber's face mask even though that wasn't called correctly in the game.

K19 · Post by **K19** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:20 am

As far as Roys hit goes I'll let you know when and if I hear anything. SO far nothing but its only Wed. I think letters are usually a Thursday or Friday thing. Heres one that was missed, similar to the Arrington call you mentioned before

A pathetic job officiating all the way around. Giving up touchdows, keeping drives alive that resulted in touchdowns. I have never seen officiating, or lack there of, play such a major role in a game

SGT PSN · Post by **SGT PSN** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:38 am

K19 wrote:I'm sure they probaably are but whats it matter at this point? The games over and its not going to change anything. Thats not an answer as a "'Boys fan" thats an answer as a realist. My answer would be the same if the roles were reversed. As I said earlier and replied to your reply.

It's not going the affect the individual game, however it could affect future games in the sense that hopefully, calls this blatantly wrong will not be made again. It could also have an affect on the playoffs as incidents like this are part of the process when it comes to selecting post season officials....which the NFL is going to have a hard time with this year because officiating around the league since opening day has been atrocious to say the least.

tx_skins_fan · Post by **tx_skins_fan** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:54 am

I heard on Dallas radio this morning that Roy Williams will most likely be fined for the helmet to helmet hit on Coles earlier in the game, not the one at the end. The hit at the end looked clean. Dale Hansen, a Cowboy homer who is the favorite sports guy on TV and radio out here, said that Parcells better spend his bye week sending "thank you" cards to that officiating crew. It really sucks that the teams don't have a chance to win a game legitimately anymore. This isn't the only game this year either. Look at TO's touchdown against the Vikings. The refs are deciding the outcome of too many games. The league has to start fining these guys for crucial mistakes.

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:12 am

I think we're all missing an important distinction between the Portis call (his knee being down) and the 3 calls that went against the Redskins (the pass interference on Harris, the non-call on Gardner and the punt muff). The distinction is this: The Cowboys had every opportunity to review the Portis call. Whereas all 3 call against the Redskins were non-reviewable.

Just pointing that out...it's over and I'm putting it behind me...but thought it worth mentioning. And before someone tells me that the muff punt wouldn't have gone the Redskins way, at least the officials could have ruled it a fumble so that it could have, at least, been reviewed.

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:29 am

the other distinction between the calls is that the calls that hurt the skins led directly to points. i agree that portis' knee was down, and it resulted in a first down on a drive that led to a touchdown. but there's a huge difference between a call that gives a team first and ten at midfield, and one that gives them first and goal from the one.

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:32 am

Right...and the Portis call was as much Tuna's fault as the officials...he should have challenged.

SkinsFan4Life · Post by **SkinsFan4Life** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:44 am

Good points, DieselFan and joebagadonuts.

After reviewing the tape, there was one other missed call that I have not heard anyone discuss. There was a face mask on Portis on 2nd and goal (toward the end of the 1st half). That would have given us a fresh set of downs. Seems like no one saw that.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:54 am

Also, on the Challenge Play - I was frustrated that the "stoner producer" kept showing the absolute worst angle of the replay. It may have been a TD, and probably was. But I would have like to have seen the angle that showed Glenn's knee going down on the white line. I didn't catch the facemask on Portis. Gibbs should not have asked Brunell to roll-right and hit Cool

ey on the move. Brunell looked like a muppet on the play.

SGT PSN · Post by **SGT PSN** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:44 pm

tx_skins_fan wrote:This isn't the only game this year either. Look at TO's touchdown against the Vikings. The refs are deciding the outcome of too many games. The league has to start fining these guys for crucial mistakes.

While I won't dispute the fact that the TD call was a bad call, I'm not going to say it cost the Vikings the game. Tice had a chance to review it and didn't. The refs didn't force Culpepper to fumble on the goal line nor did they tell Mike Tice to kick a FG on 4th and 1.

There's been a few big time goofs by the refs this year including the debacle going into halftime during the Cheifs/Broncos game where they didn't mark off the appropriate yardage on a penalty and then brought both teams back on the field to replay that down.

I have yet to see a single game this season that I would consider "well officiated". And considering I've got Sunday Ticket and see alot of games and we're heading into Week 4, that's pretty damn pathetic imo.

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:48 pm

tx_skins_fan wrote:Look at TO's touchdown against the Vikings. The refs are deciding the outcome of too many games.

That was one bad call in a game full of awful calls in both directions. It was a first down play, so it's not exactly like it was a last ditch effort to put the game away.

chicosbailbond · Post by **chicosbailbond** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:27 pm

monday night games are always fixed... vegas gets to the refs... they need to even up the money from the weekend...

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:28 pm

2 calls (non-calls) that had the result of a 1st and Goal from the 1 and a direct prevention of what would have been a touchdown. Slightly different than missing Portis' 'knee-down' at our own 20, and a single strict enforcement of a 'roughing the passer' rule further down the field. Don't give me this "awful calls both ways" crap and think that it makes up for it. Yeah, it was awful both ways--they gave you a touchdown and allowed you to illegally take one of ours away. Now that's both ways.

I'm not going to blame the loss on penalties--I think we should have played better and Gibbs could have had better clock management. However, I do get tired of seeing Cowboys' fans trying to compensate for what they know were game changing calls (yeah, but they called that FALSE START on US!!).

Well at least the "We're Sorry" letter is really going to do a lot of good in making me feel better for the loss. . .

[insert SSIII's sig]

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:51 pm

chicosbailbond wrote:monday night games are always fixed... vegas gets to the refs... they need to even up the money from the weekend...

I also have wondered if refs get some type of kick back by Vegas or the Mob for their calls. Sometimes the officiating is so one-sided that the only conclusion one can come up with is that games are fixed. Sad but very possibly true.

air_hog · Post by **air_hog** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:10 pm

the refs should be able to use Instant Replay when deciding whether or not to call a game deciding flag.

hint hint: the pass interference/ and the "not" pass interference (ex: rod gardner) calls.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:32 pm

air_hog wrote:the refs should be able to use Instant Replay when deciding whether or not to call a game deciding flag.

hint hint: the pass interference/ and the "not" pass interference (ex: rod gardner) calls.

There is an Aikman column on NFL.com where he not-so-elegantly calls that a slippery slope, and I tend to agree. I don't want to sit through a game where every damn play is reviewed. As it is, those conferences the officials have are pretty irritating.

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:21 am

plus, the nfl doesn't like it when the refs look bad. if coaches are allowed to challenge opinion calls, such as pass interference, it'll be anarchy, and the refs will have no credibility.

DallasCowboysFan · Post by **DallasCowboysFan** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:16 am

cvillehog wrote: Also, I'm interested to know if Williams got a fine for the helmet-to-helmet even though it wasn't called a foul in the game (That is a foul right? I've seen it called before, but usually over the middle of the field.). I know LaVar Arrington got a fine for the grabbing Tiki Barber's face mask even though that wasn't called correctly in the game.

I noticed this in your paper and knew that would be a topic over here. Helmet to helmet is legal once the receiver has caught the ball and becomes a runner. No different than hitting a RB helmet to helmet! I notice Gardner doesn't mention his push off to catch that ball?

" ... using any part of a player's helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/hairline parts) or facemask to butt, spear or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass ...)."

This was the fine that Woodson got for hitting Darrell Jackson a while back. Key word is defenseless and Gardner had already turned to run after the catch.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:25 am

Sorry but after the hit Gannon took it should be illegal every time. Regardless of the opinion of whether the player is "defenseless" or not, because that obviously is a judgement call.

I am not impressed with the refs this season at all and it isn't just about blown calls against us. The league needs to step up and do something about it

I also think that if the no contact within 5 yards is going to be called consistently or expected to be held in such high regard as they tried to make us believe in preseason, then it should be challengable. The lack of the flag and the penalty itself should both be things that can be challenged by throwing the red flag.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:28 am

The penalty should be challengable because you can easily see if they are beyond 5 yards or not. No non-calls will ever be challengable because there are penalties on every play. You could always find a holding call on a running play, so you could challenge everytime someone scored a TD.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:35 am

Oh you said you are sleeping on the couch, got it! ;-)

Seriously though shouldn't some more serious penalties or lack of them be challengable. I mean it is completely ridiculous that the facemask call against Arrington wasn't called but they can fine him for it.