Ramsey should NOT be in there.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:52 pm

To all those that say Ramsey needs to be in there, forget about it. It's not going to happen. Gibbs is as loyal as you could ever imagine. He will not replace Brunell unless an injury warrants it.

hatsOFF2gibbs · Post by **hatsOFF2gibbs** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:30 pm

damn right, he had a great game. Ramsey would've never been able to come back like that. PRam has NO chance unless Mark is injured. (like I said all along......)

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:36 pm

hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:damn right, he had a great game. Ramsey would've never been able to come back like that.

...in this system. Remember who brought us back from huge holes early last season. PRam still has not caught on to Gibbs' system, and it is showing, but he did prove last year, that he is capable of bringing a team back from a deficit.

Oh how quickly we forget. :roll:

But yeah, he should not be starting... yet.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:37 pm

Ok Brunnell did not look like a veteran in there AT ALL. I'm sick and tired of you people dogging Patrick. He's a damn good QB and because you believe he lost the Giants game, which he DID NOT, you feel you have the right to decide he doesn't belong in there. I will back our coach either way but at what point do you critize Brunnell with the same one sided ideals you are bashing Ramsey with?

skinz74 · Post by **skinz74** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:47 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with NikiH...

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:02 pm

NikiH wrote:...at what point do you critize Brunnell with the same one sided ideals you are bashing Ramsey with?

The next time Mark accounts for 3 interceptions...yank him, and put in Patrick.

Once Mark looks tentative and develops a deer-in-the-headlights look ... put in Ramsey 'cause he's got a stronger arm to go with his doe eyes.

Until then, Brunell is the starter.

Patrick MIGHT be our future, but we also want to win now, and the team has made moves that, in their opinion, best gives us a chance of attaining our goal.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:41 pm

You know what Redeemed I'm not going to argue with you. But that offense was new to Patrick and he was thrown into a loss. He was overwelmed because Gardner could not hold on to the damned ball. It's not fair to judge him by how he played during that small time on the field with the Giants. If he had started this game and done the same thing, I'd be fine with your hatred for him. But I'm not ok with it now. He has not been given a chance at all. Even though Brunnell, as you said was injured this game.

alwaysaskinner · Post by **alwaysaskinner** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:58 pm

Redeemed, WHAT games are you watching? Brunnell's feet NEVER stop tapping back there. From the second he gets the ball, he's just about ready to poop his pants. He can't throw the long ball, either. The FIRST thing he starts to do is head to the sidelines to dump the ball into the stands as he steps out of bounds hoping not to get hit.
Ramsey on the other hand has guts, and is willing to do what needs to be done. It's going to take awhile to unfun'ngun him, but once he's up to snuff with Gibbs' playbook, HE"s our man, and Mark should sit.
No questions asked....
BTW Brunnell HAS accounted for the majority of the turnovers, look at the stats, man....

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:00 pm

I wouldn't necessarily say yank Brunell after he throws three interceptions, but after Brunell throws three interceptions that should never have been thrown in the first place that's when you yank him. Also, if Brunell is out there playing like he has no confidence then yank him. But, Brunell is at least playing with a little confidence. It's not translating into wins or even a high QB rating, but he's a veteran with confidence. I think confidence is what brought us back in that game last night. With all due respect to PRam, and I really like him, but I don't think he would have been the right person to lead us last night. But, his time will come.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:48 pm

It's not fair to judge him by how he played during that small time on the field with the Giants.

That is precisely why the coaches have practice to dtermine who is best fit TO START A GAME.

...your hatred for him... He has not been given a chance at all.

The guy with the helmet and #11 on his uniform to the right of Joe Gibbs is Patrick Ramsey, one of the teams "REDEEMEDSKINS". No "hatred" from me to him, lady. however, I do question his fitness to lead this team, in this system, this year, while Brunell is available to play.

How many more chances can Patrick get? This ain't pre-season, and the coaching carousel left with the last regime.

SGT PSN · Post by **SGT PSN** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:56 pm

An outsider's 2 cents:

Ramsey has been put into and yanked as the starting QB 2 or 3 times now, right? The Skins used a high draft pick on him....why? To ride the bench? The biggest problem the Skins have had over the last couple of years, in addition to 3 different HC's in 4 years, is there has been some massive personnel coming and going as well. The Skins need to build continuity and chemistry before they can expect to win. All the time that Ramsey's been riding the bench he could have spent taking his knocks and learning the game at the NFL level. Brunell is not the future of the Redskins and I doubt he's going to take them to the playoffs this year. He may win a game or 2 more than Ramsey would but why hinder his developement in favor of a couple of wins that's only going to lower your draft status?

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:07 pm

Brunell started to play a lot better last night. It's a new offense for him too. It's a new offense for everyone! Duh! The first two games were not indicative of his ability. Why is everyone judging him on the short time he's been in. He finally started to hit his rhythm. Before the second half last night he was just too timid, he was overthinking and not just playing naturally. It wasn't so much that he was throwing behind his recievers as much as he was just taking TOO LONG to pull the trigger. Finally he seems to be getting comfortably on an offense that before this season he had never played one game with any of the guys out there or the coach after not playing a real down in almost a year. Last year McNabb's passer rating after five games was about 60! He's a great player. Brunell has every excuse that you are offering up for Ramsey, Gardner and Coles and Portis have all dropped passes that both of them threw. Brunell has only been learning the offense for the same amount of time and has NO history with any player on the team. He was vastly better in the preseason. He played far better last night and moved the Redskins more effectively at the end of the game last night than Ramsey did in New York! You guys are crazy! Brunell is the man and that only changes by injury or if he is terrible through at least half the season. Look at his stats

Game stats 25-43 325 yds 2 TD's 0 Int

Terrible, just terrible, isn't it. No ints, 300yd game, 2TDs. I'm not putting up for that.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:08 pm

First of all, welcome to the board, alwaysaskinner. Enjoy!

NOW..

you wrote:Redeemed, WHAT games are you watching? Brunnell's feet NEVER stop tapping back there. From the second he gets the ball, he's just about ready to poop his pants. He can't throw the long ball, either. The FIRST thing he starts to do is head to the sidelines to dump the ball into the stands as he steps out of bounds hoping not to get hit.

FIRST, we can all agree that our line allows more defenders through than it does open lanes for our back to run; since our running game isn't as explosive as we'd like, Brunell is forced to pass, from behind the aforementioned leaky OL. Running is not a bad idea, when a 300 pounder wants to rough you up.

SECOND, he completed a few long balls last night that were crucial to our late comeback in the game, so to say he CAN'T throw it is untrue.

THIRD, heading toward the sideline, throwing the ball away, etc. are reasons why he's been able to play so long in this league. He's no spring chicken, and preserving his health is important for the success of this team.

you also wrote:Ramsey on the other hand has guts, and is willing to do what needs to be done.

...to end up 5-11 like we did last year? His "guts" contributed more to the length of his infirmary report than it did the success of the team. He needs to sit and learn.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:12 pm

Spurrier tried to put Ramsey in a body cast for the rest of his life. Ramsey is a tough guy, a fighter and a talented leader. He simply lacks playing time and confindence. The two run hand-in-hand. Brunell had one good half, I hope he can build on it. Either way, Ramsey needs playing time. Brunell won't finish the season 'as is.' The Skins didn't do a great job of protecting him and the drops hurt us. Ramsey needs to play at some point - why wait for Brunell to be incompacitated? You have two players on the roster - Ramsey needs to see SOME action. Why ask Brunell to roll to his right and throw to his right to Cool

ey? Ramsey could have run that play and the Cowboys would have had to call a time out - or stick with their play. The righty-lefty thing could be used to our advantage.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:26 pm

It's nice to discuss our opinions on these type of topics, but if there's such a thing as a bad side to it, I think we should let the coaches coach, and the fans be fans.

SGT PSN · Post by **SGT PSN** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:33 pm

JPFair wrote:It's nice to discuss our opinions on these type of topics, but if there's such a thing as a bad side to it, I think we should let the coaches coach, and the fans be fans.

Didn't you get the memo? Fans always know more than coaches and management. Duh.

welch · Post by **welch** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:42 pm

Didn't you get the memo? Fans always know more than coaches and management. Duh.

It's been a long day after a short night (I wish they would start those MNF games at 8...), and it's rainiing hard here, but this gave me a chuckle. Thanks.

SGT PSN · Post by **SGT PSN** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:53 pm

The 8pm start time is about the only thing I've enjoyed about being in the mid-west for the last couple of years.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:56 pm

Two loses and we have a QB controversy among the fans.

Two loses and we doubt the quality of our WRs.

Two loses and we question the ability of our RBs.

Two loses and we second guess our coaches.

I am glad we are good, loyal fans with the determination and perseverance to stick it out for the team the way we expect our coaches to act and demand our players to execute.

I am glad we are good and informed fans not to be swayed in my opinions depending on the result of a couple of games the way the media are.

What if we were not? We would look pathetic, wouldn't we?

Are we willing to endure five straight loses if need be?

I am. I swallowed the fact that it will TAKE TIME.

If you trust the team, GIVE THEM TIME!!! :evil:

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:10 pm

I never once questioned Joe Gibbs on his first tenure, and I'm certainly not gonna start now. NO WAY!!!

Justice Hog · Post by **Justice Hog** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:25 pm

Let me add my My 2 cents

.

After seeing the anemic performance of our offense in the first half, I will admit to you all that I was hoping that Gibbs (the master of half-time adjustments) was going to come out in the 2nd half with Ramsey at the helm.

While Brunell may have better field sense, he wasn't moving the offense like I hoped he would. I felt that adding Ramsey in the 2nd half might have added a spark to the offense. At the very least, with his stronger arm, he would have spread the defense...allowing more room for Portis to run.

Then, Brunell found the short passing game and the offense started to move a little. I was happy with that....and I backed off my desire to have Ramsey in there.

I think the short passing game is the key to this team's success. Hopefully, we learned that against Dallas. We don't need Ramsey's gun arm to do the short passing game....and, agreeing with Sgt PSM

Skins need to build continuity and chemistry before they can expect to win.

Therefore, we should keep Brunell at the helm...and hope he picks up the nuances of Gibbs' system sooner rather than later. While Ramsey might be our "future", Brunell is our "present."

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:28 am

I don't care who starts as long as we are in the game at the end. We have been thus far. I was a little perplexed by Brunell holding the ball in the pocket so long for a few of those sacks. The Dirtbags are performing well, but no offensive line, not matter how good, can hold the pass rush off for 5 seconds every snap. I am chalking it up to Brunell's hammy, since he did limp after a few throws during the game.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:32 am

I'm encouraged by Brunells steady improvement. He finally put up some decent numbers, and showed some veteran poise. I think we could be pleasantly surprised over the course of the season.

In any event, I think what Gibbs wants out of Ramsey is two solid, if not spectacular, seasons while he moulds the team.

jaw32 · Post by **jaw32** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:11 pm

One observation about Brunell watching him over the years:

He used to be more of a gun slinger. He could also run very well. As the Jax OL starting stinking it up (post Boselli and Searcy), Brunell starting getting slammed. He led the league in getting sacked one year and was up there in a couple of more.

Also happening during all this, Coach Coughlin (we all know what a hard-a$$ he is) would jump all over Brunell for taking chances or throwing interceptions. The Jags started doing a lot of 3 step drops and Brunell would throw the ball away a lot.

Ever since then he has not been the same dynamic QB he once was. But he minimized his mistakes and didn't throw as many interceptions.

I think Brunell became what Coughlin wanted, and maybe what Gibbs wants. The problem is the Def needs to be flawless and we need to be able to run better. If not I hope Joe can find the old Brunell with a little new Brunell mixed in.

welch · Post by **welch** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:45 pm

I think Gibbs likes a QB who can move, thinks fast, but doesn't take chances. He likes QB's who learn, which is why Jay Schroeder eventually sat and Doug Williams played SB 22 -- even though Schroeder was all-pro the year before. All-pro, but a thick-head.

Brunell fits just fine with the Gibbs system.

Ramsey is like a question that only he can answer. He seems to have the courage that Rypien had -- Rypien who would hold the ball until just before he got wallopped if that was necessary to complete the pass. (Take a look at the SB 26 high-lights). Does Ramsey have the smarts? It's up to him.