Throwing a challenge flag

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:17 pm

One thing that I thought hurt us yesterday was not challenging any of the calls. One that comes into mind is when Brunell ran the ball for a FIRST DOWN around the 1 yard line. He clearly got enough yards for the first. The Refs poorly spoted the ball and said it was 4th and 1. I saw it, the commentators saw it and said that Brunell clearly got the first down. We didn't challenge the spot and kicked a field goal when we clearly could of had a fresh set of downs to get a TD.

There was another call when, if I remember correctly, where we forced a fumble and they called him down.

I thought Gibbs hired an ex-ref to watch closely for plays to be challenged. What gives?

gregory smith · Post by **gregory smith** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:22 pm

I totally agree, the fumble may or may not have been, but Brunell had the first down. It would have been first & goal, probably meant the difference in a field goal or a touchdown, could've been the difference in the game.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:22 pm

The Brunell play was an obvious challenge.

The forced fumble would have not been overturned. Remeber there has to be clear evidence to overturn it and it wasnt clear from the replays they showed. I thought his knee was down.

I don't know why Gibbs hired a referee lol, its obvious that they can't make the right calls, his brethern are on the field messing up too. lol

NC43Hog · Post by **NC43Hog** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:23 pm

We should have challenged the goalline ball spot - the other had to be called by the officials in the booth and they didn't so not our bad on that one.

I couldn't believe the spot they gave Brunnel, give Gibbs time - he will get this down pat soon. I did think we had a replay ref on staff to help us out on those ones - seemed like the goalline call was rather obvious.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:28 pm

I head on the radio this morning that the official in the booth said the problem was that he had to rely on the Fox replay and Fox was taking too long......hello....can't Danny afford TiVo up there? Just rewind it, idiot. Besides, I was in the stands with no replay and I could clearly see he made the first down and was cheated on the spot.

Redskins1974 · Post by **Redskins1974** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:20 pm

Yup - I was 70 feet from the play and it was very clear that Brunnell got enough for the first down. If I'm 70 feet away and can see it then surely the ref 2 feet away should have seen it. I heard that as well that the booth didn't get the playback fast enough to send Gibbs the OK to challenge. That has to be corrected.

Skeletor · Post by **Skeletor** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:22 pm

I think the key point in the Brunell spot non-challenge is the time out situation. We had not called any time-outs all of the first quarter (when is the last time that happened?) The only penalty for losing a challenge is the loss of a time-out. Risking a time-out for the possibility of an extra four points, to me, is a no-brainer.

QBs often call a time out to avoid a 5 yard delay of game penalty, why not risk one to challenge at a point in the game where you have three, you have a lead, your defense is shutting out the opponent, and you have the potential to really put the Bucs down early?

Love Gibbs, but he missed it on that one.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:26 pm

The play that was rulled down by contact couldn't have been challenged by the coaches, if I recall, since it was after the two minute warning. It had to be reviewed by the booth.

tnathan · Post by **tnathan** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:42 pm

yea, that was pretty clearly a first down... not getting it was kind of a momentum killer. hope gibbs learns from that one. should have been 14-0.

pjp5 · Post by **pjp5** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:48 pm

Everything everyone said is true, and does anyone think Gibbs will make that mistake agian? Not likely

Jeremy81 · Post by **Jeremy81** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 pm

the fumble that was called down, if it was called down then it can't be challenged right?

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:09 pm

Jeremy81 wrote:the fumble that was called down, if it was called down then it can't be challenged right?

Unless something changed since last season, you cannot challenge down by contact. You can challenge the spot of the ball on any play, though for the Brunell scramble.

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:17 pm

NC43Hog wrote:We should have challenged the goalline ball spot - the other had to be called by the officials in the booth and they didn't so not our bad on that one.

I couldn't believe the spot they gave Brunnel, give Gibbs time - he will get this down pat soon. I did think we had a replay ref on staff to help us out on those ones - seemed like the goalline call was rather obvious.

agree !!! throw the flag no matter what when your that close to the goal line.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:49 pm

As time goes on, Gibbs is going to get better using the red flag. Let's just be happy it didn't cost us this time...

Skeletor · Post by **Skeletor** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:04 pm

Bottom line is if this is all we have to worry about, we're doing really well!

Remember last year, after every game? What's with the false starts? How come Ramsey keeps getting sacked? Why don't the run the ball? Why can't we stop the run?

Here, we're arguing about whether Gibbs should have made a move that increased our margin of victory...

Note also: No major injuries! And the Cowboys lost!

Damn, life is good.

NC43Hog · Post by **NC43Hog** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:49 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:As time goes on, Gibbs is going to get better using the red flag. Let's just be happy it didn't cost us this time...

He is really good at it in ESPN 2K5.

And yes no major injuries coupled with a Dallas loss made for a sweet Sunday afternoon.

screwgun · Post by **screwgun** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:53 am

knowing Gibbs as we do ,you know that he'sgonna fix it. keep the faith I know I will!!

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:12 am

This thread sounds suspiciously like we're hinting that Gibbs needs to learn something about football. Gibbs has said that he didn't go for it on 4th down because he didn't want to kill the momentum. As for not challenging it, Gibbs relied on the word from his official in the booth, who said that the camera angle that he had to see it on would not have overturned the call on the field. In any event, the Skins put three points on the board, and we needed them.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:43 am

JPFair wrote:This thread sounds suspiciously like we're hinting that Gibbs needs to learn something about football. Gibbs has said that he didn't go for it on 4th down because he didn't want to kill the momentum. As for not challenging it, Gibbs relied on the word from his official in the booth, who said that the camera angle that he had to see it on would not have overturned the call on the field. In any event, the Skins put three points on the board, and we needed them.

I agree with the above. But Joe{s statement was related about not going for it in 4th down and not about the call for the spot.

You need incontrovertible evidence that the call was wrong. He relied on his staff to make this determination. Refs do not like to correct their own calls. It is human nature to try to avoid being shown wrong.

I would call for a time out to analyze these calls in the future.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:45 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:I would call for a time out to analyze these calls in the future.

And possibly lose two timeouts? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. :roll:

Anyway, Gibbs hired a guy to tell him when to throw the flag. That guy said not to throw it. We won.

What more do you need to know?

xhadow · Post by **xhadow** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:24 pm

As far as the fumble goes even if it was challeneged we wouldn't have gotten the ball. I think Gibbs has everything undercontrol personally. Think of it like the military you may not like the decision that your leaders make but you may not know all the circumstances for those decisions so just sit back and relax the commander has things under control

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:11 pm

It's not like Joe didn't Know about the challenge or that he forgot to throw the flag. Our coach felt it was no need to do so at that point in the game.....In hind sight it costed us nothing WE WON :lol:

....

In Sunday's 16-10 season-opening victory over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Gibbs did not challenge the placement of the football that left his club with fourth and inches at the Tampa Bay 3-yard line. On third and one, quarterback Mark Brunell sprinted up the middle to escape pressure and appeared to slide inside the 2-yard line for a first down.

With the ball placed at the 3, Gibbs sent in John Hall to kick a 20-yard field goal that gave the Redskins a 10-0 lead. Gibbs said the overriding factor in his decision to go for three points was the risk of losing momentum, and that Hill didn't recommend a challenge. (Coaches make a challenge by throwing a red flag onto the field before the ensuing play.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Sep13.html

njskinsfan · Post by **njskinsfan** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:20 pm

What was there to loose on the Brunell challenge ... one timeout? If we win we have first and goal and Betts puts it in the endzone.

The third play was the Gardner third down sliding catch that the refs ruled the ball hit the ground. That would have given us first down at the Bucs 35.