DarthMonk wrote:There’s no reason to go draft a quarterback just because we need one unless we have somebody we really like to draft.
Totally agree, DM. I don't mean to imply that we SHOULD draft any of these guys just because we have the need at QB. I would only want someone that guys like Gruden and Doug Williams were sold on. I don't claim to be smart enough to evaluate any of those draft picks. I also don't put much stock in the Mel Kiper's of the world either.
My point though is that IF there is a guy they like I want to see the team take a shot on a QB. I'd rather fail at drafting a franchise QB than fail with yet another guy off the street.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
DarthMonk wrote:There’s no reason to go draft a quarterback just because we need one unless we have somebody we really like to draft.
Totally agree, DM. I don't mean to imply that we SHOULD draft any of these guys just because we have the need at QB. I would only want someone that guys like Gruden and Doug Williams were sold on. I don't claim to be smart enough to evaluate any of those draft picks. I also don't put much stock in the Mel Kiper's of the world either.
My point though is that IF there is a guy they like I want to see the team take a shot on a QB. I'd rather fail at drafting a franchise QB than fail with yet another guy off the street.
Bruce Allen is going to continue to be an Achilles' Heel because even if Doug Williams (an actual NFL quarterback who won a Super Bowl) likes a prospect he won't be given freedom to do what is necessary to secure the prospect.
The quarterback answer is always the same: Do what you have to do to get an NFL caliber passer. How freaking difficult is it for a scout to look at film of successful quarterbacks and find a guy with that skill set? Yes, you might miss on a guy or two but eventually you'll find the right guy. Unless you're the Redskins and you keep insisting on drafting everything but top quarterback prospects.
I don't think you mortgage the future for a prospect but whatever you have to trade in this draft, where you have four extra picks, you trade to move up if you think someone might be the quarterback of the future. Maybe you think about trading next year's picks because you need to give anyone at least two years to evaluate them. You don't give up three firsts and a second for a guy who doesn't have an NFL arm and can;t pass from the pocket.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Bruce Allen is going to continue to be an Achilles' Heel because even if Doug Williams (an actual NFL quarterback who won a Super Bowl) likes a prospect he won't be given freedom to do what is necessary to secure the prospect.
No doubt. That's always going to be a concern. Doug is a former QB and super bowl winner who knows what it takes. Gruden is a former QB as well and has been a successful offensive coordinator. I think he was quickly proven right in choosing Cousins over RG3. Matt Cavanaugh is another former NFL quarterback on the coaching staff.
Whatever our opinions are of the front office, there are guys over there who should be capable of reviewing tape and making an informed decision on these college QBs. I don't see what Bruce's role should be beyond reviewing and okaying those decisions. Hate that guy...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Gruden and Doug, specially, must be itching to grab their rookie QB.
They've only been given what others left (KC, RGIII) or was available
as a high-mileage veteran in FA (Smith).
Let's see what they've got. It's now or never for both of them.
Seen some suggestions that the Cardinals might like to take Murray and trade Josh Rosen. Anyone willing to give up this year's second round pick for Rosen?
I didn't see enough of him last year to have an opinion on him, so I'm curious if anyone here feels strongly about him one way or the other.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
riggofan wrote:Seen some suggestions that the Cardinals might like to take Murray and trade Josh Rosen. Anyone willing to give up this year's second round pick for Rosen?
I didn't see enough of him last year to have an opinion on him, so I'm curious if anyone here feels strongly about him one way or the other.
I think I'd rather they spent a 4th or 5th on Jacob Dolegala.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
Interesting that Drew Lock is low on the predicted success rating. Will Grier and Kyler Murray both at the top. Worth keeping in mind if you believe in this kind of analytics!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Interesting that Drew Lock is low on the predicted success rating. Will Grier and Kyler Murray both at the top. Worth keeping in mind if you believe in this kind of analytics!
I just think that a team with so little pro bowl talent shouldn't waste a 2nd round pick on a castoff from another team who needs a QB at least as much as the Skins. We need talent, not just bodies.
I love how that article shows that their own metric is useless.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I love how that article shows that their own metric is useless.
I didn't take that from the results. Johnny Manziel really skews them though!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
And, according to Adam Schefter, that QB will have Antonio Brown to get the damn ball.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
Reports have surfaced suggesting Oklahoma's Kyler Murray is "almost universally" considered the No. 1 prospect in this year's NFL Draft.
Rosen could be out of a job if Arizona selects Murray with the top pick. The Redskins could be interested in trading for Rosen if he's made available, according to a report from the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.
There's some things I like about this trade *in theory*. Obviously, a high pick at QB just last year. Would be extremely affordable for the next four years. And he's already a year under his belt now, wouldn't be expected to sit for a year behind Colt necessarily.
Not saying they should make this trade, and I probably wouldn't give up more than a second rounder for it. But if the coaches rate him highly enough, I wouldn't hate this type of move.
Kyler Murray is going #1, eh?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Reports have surfaced suggesting Oklahoma's Kyler Murray is "almost universally" considered the No. 1 prospect in this year's NFL Draft.
Rosen could be out of a job if Arizona selects Murray with the top pick. The Redskins could be interested in trading for Rosen if he's made available, according to a report from the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.
There's some things I like about this trade *in theory*. Obviously, a high pick at QB just last year. Would be extremely affordable for the next four years. And he's already a year under his belt now, wouldn't be expected to sit for a year behind Colt necessarily.
Not saying they should make this trade, and I probably wouldn't give up more than a second rounder for it. But if the coaches rate him highly enough, I wouldn't hate this type of move.
Kyler Murray is going #1, eh?
Call me skeptical but what source would a rag like the South Florida Sun Sentinel have that major media does not?
For the record I would hate this type of move. If a team that desperately needs a QB is giving up on Rosen after one year he can't be any kind of talented. He'd also be the latest in a long line of reclamation projects and we all know by now how I feel about those. If you think you have any change of drafting Drew Lock why waste picks in a trade for a QB who is basically the same thing but older? Either Rosen or Lock would have to learn the system from ground zero. They'd have about the same salary since rookie QB salaries are slotted. I'd like someone who doesn't spend a year behind Dolt McCoy. That's a waste since we already know Dolt is taking the team nowhere this season. No QB is taking the team anywhere this season. So, let a new QB develop this season.
And, yes, the NFL has adjusted to the undersized non-pocket passing QB so Murray is going to get his clock cleaned, just like every other running QB once the league adjusted.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
Call me skeptical but what source would a rag like the South Florida Sun Sentinel have that major media does not?
I don't blame you for checking the source but that was being widely reported over the weekend from a number of sources. A QB needy team in the situation that the Redskins are in letting the Cardinals know that they would be interested in discussing a trade if they're drafting Murray isn't all that unbelievable. Inquiring about a trade is a long ways off from making a trade. (I think it was reported that the Dolphins were talking to the Skins about Tannehill this weekend too.)
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:For the record I would hate this type of move. If a team that desperately needs a QB is giving up on Rosen after one year he can't be any kind of talented. He'd also be the latest in a long line of reclamation projects and we all know by now how I feel about those.
I know what you're saying, but I think this is a little different situation. The Cards are bringing in the Texas Tech coach who clearly knows Murray and thinks he fits his system. That's the only reason the Cardinals would move on from Rosen after only one year.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Adam Schein
Verified account @AdamSchein
27m27 minutes ago
It’s a lifeline for Washington. A no brainer. Rosen is going to be a stud. McCoy will never call plays again. He neutered David Johnson. Look at Trubisky after Fox, Goff after Fisher. Related, are the Giants still in the football business or awake?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
If I understand the #NFL cap correctly in this case (pretty sure I do), if #Redskins added Josh Rosen, his cap numbers for THEM would be $1.28 M in 2019, $2.08 M in 2020, $2.80 M in 2021 because they don't have to pay prorated bonus each year.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
El Mexican wrote:Not only is wheeling and dealing for Rosen a no-brainer, it's a necessity.
Its not the only option, certainly. But I don't think its the worst option out there. I would probably rather see the team go this route than grab a Case Keenum or Fitzpatrick and spin wheels again for a year.
The big question to me is like you said. What would it take to make the trade? I'm not in favor of a "king's ransom" that's for sure. I think the Cardinals will be under pressure to make a trade if they really want to take Murray, and the market for Rosen is limited. If the team can pull it off without giving too much away, I wouldn't complain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
El Mexican wrote:Not only is wheeling and dealing for Rosen a no-brainer, it's a necessity.
Its not the only option, certainly. But I don't think its the worst option out there. I would probably rather see the team go this route than grab a Case Keenum or Fitzpatrick and spin wheels again for a year.
The big question to me is like you said. What would it take to make the trade? I'm not in favor of a "king's ransom" that's for sure. I think the Cardinals will be under pressure to make a trade if they really want to take Murray, and the market for Rosen is limited. If the team can pull it off without giving too much away, I wouldn't complain.
If those are the options I'll take Rosen. I still think there are smarter decisions.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
DarthMonk wrote:If Rosen were available as the 15th pick in the draft this year, would you pick him ?
If so then we should be willing to trade the pick for him.
With the other players in this draft? No. I'd take Lock over Rosen every time.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
DarthMonk wrote:If Rosen were available as the 15th pick in the draft this year, would you pick him ?
If so then we should be willing to trade the pick for him.
That's a good way to look at it, man. Except he's already played one year on his rookie contract, so I would argue he's less valuable than taking Lock or Jones or somebody with that pick.
Your larger point is spot on though. If you really believe he's a franchise QB, the 15th pick is a small price to pay.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Rosen got upside but I'll pull the trigger on Brissett who did much more with the loses he took compared to Rosen. Brissett is only 26 at half the cost of Rosen. He's very mobile, have a cannon and the intangibles. Thats if I was going to TRADE.
I'm just not a big fan of Rosen. I just see something in him that I feel will not allow a team to get over the hump. Gut feel. Similar to what I had about Cousins.
mastdark81 wrote:Rosen got upside but I'll pull the trigger on Brissett who did much more with the loses he took compared to Rosen. Brissett is only 26 at half the cost of Rosen. He's very mobile, have a cannon and the intangibles. Thats if I was going to TRADE.
I'm just not a big fan of Rosen. I just see something in him that I feel will not allow a team to get over the hump. Gut feel. Similar to what I had about Cousins.
Very possible. I definitely make no claims about my ability to judge those young QBs who haven't played much.
What's Brissett's availability this year? Isn't he signed with the Colts?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
If you think you have any change of drafting Drew Lock why waste picks in a trade for a QB who is basically the same thing but older? Either Rosen or Lock would have to learn the system from ground zero. They'd have about the same salary since rookie QB salaries are slotted. I'd like someone who doesn't spend a year behind Dolt McCoy. That's a waste since we already know Dolt is taking the team nowhere this season. No QB is taking the team anywhere this season. So, let a new QB develop this season. 