Pessimistic about the season, optimistic about Josh Johnson

[SkinsJock]

Cousins is only making that money because of what the Redskins did - nobody thinks he's a really good QB - the Vikings made a bad choice

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

OK - let's say that it's not really anyone's fault that we've had 2 horrendous season with injuries to so many key players
AND
let's keep everyone and do the best we can through this - after all these guys have done some good things ... haven't they?

we could get lucky - even the blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then ....

give me a break - I want to see somebody fired - make somebody pay for the mistakes
let's get some people in here that know what they're doing - anyone can do a better job than these idiots have done

Knee jerk reactions is nornal from the fans perspective- especially when the *sh$t* hits the fan...

But as a front office we've not only seen, but have written the book on how disastrous that is. New coach new gm.. New scheme- been there done that. Look at the carousel in Clevland for your answers- team has had the most top 10 picks in the last 10 drafts out of every team! I'd argue they are one of the youngest teams with the most talent out there- the new coach after new coach has kept them at the bottom of the league.

I'm not saying we are NE and in the best shape ever- but we are improving in our player management and acquisitions. Stay the course is hard when you have so much adversity- BUT who and what will flip it on a dime?


You can ask for changes, but it's meaningless without any solutions- ya?

[SkinsJock]

OK ckRGiii - I hear what you're saying - I don't advocate for changing the way we do things because of the past few years - HOWEVER someone in the FO has to pay the price for what has happened here - Bruce Allen has done a good job with the cap AND we have added some good young players BUT we're still seeing the same under 500 win loss record and have a really botched up situation at arguably the most important position for any franchise

we have it ingrained in our psyche that we're almost there .... this goes on and on, season after season ... now "it's just a couple of years, we'll be fine .."

we don't need to 'change for the sake of change' OR need someone to be fired just for the mistakes of the past few years
we need to change the way we do things because what we have been doing has resulted in a mediocre franchise on and off the field



this franchise is a mess right now - 1-3 over the next 4 would be a disaster - we're not optimistic anymore, we're hoping to get lucky

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Be realistic though... SF had a great shot at taking the division; until they lost Jimmy G for the year.

Alex Smith isn't Breezy, but he was the best out there at a reasonable price. Letting Kurt Grossman go was a great move, and Alex Smith the perfect stop gap- for the options we had. Maybe a trade for Bridgewater would've sufficed ? but his injury was coming back from was gruesome.

The front office fielded a contender... Alex isn't a gun slinfger and didnt quite play up to expectations- injuries (CT, Crowder,PRich, Guice, Reed in the off-season, OLINE) aside, he had us at the top of the division.


You can't just start cutting heads off, when the group that was fielded (depth including) was doing what it needed to.

If any heads should roll, it should be focused om the strength and conditioning team and/or the field maintenance team.
Losing all the players we have the last 2 years (most in the NFL) makes it impossible to judge the FO or the HC.

Now, with less injuries on the D, I AM disappointed in Mununsky- we were a rop flight D at the start and now exposed, he has no answer for our slow ilbs. Hasn't adjusted or coached better techniques to address the issues and now the D is floundering.. Granted, an anemic O doesn't help the D at all...

Im just not about firing people for the sake of "blame." Case can be made to blame the refs, or the "curse", just as strong as one to fire anybody.

Furthermore, fire someone- O.K. Now who fills those shoes and brings this "change" we need? Serious question, who can make us better that doesn't wear a uniform on game day?

[SkinsJock]

you're right - nobody can make this franchise better in the next few years - we're in a huge hole ...

BUT, what you're suggesting is to not make any changes to the FO and coaching staff (the same coaching staff that got us to 6-3) and keep doing what we've been doing ... like adding really good young players and just hope that things will get better in a few years
THEN, we'll see the same results
AND, we'll still be saying we just need to wait and give these guys more time

the people in charge are not being honest about what is happening here



it's like hoping that we'll get a new owner - IT's NOT HAPPENING

[SkinsJock]

Knee jerk reactions is nornal from the fans perspective- especially when the *sh$t* hits the fan...

But as a front office we've not only seen, but have written the book on how disastrous that is. New coach new gm.. New scheme- been there done that. Look at the carousel in Clevland for your answers- team has had the most top 10 picks in the last 10 drafts out of every team! I'd argue they are one of the youngest teams with the most talent out there- the new coach after new coach has kept them at the bottom of the league.

I'm not saying we are NE and in the best shape ever- but we are improving in our player management and acquisitions. Stay the course is hard when you have so much adversity- BUT who and what will flip it on a dime?
You can ask for changes, but it's meaningless without any solutions- ya?

The BIGGEST reason the Browns have turned things around is NOT due to the number of big time picks as much as the fact that those picks and the coaching staff have been put together by guys that know what they're doing

we can do that - we need to do things differently - the new NFL is about analytics and the new offenses - we are NOT that franchise - not even close

[welch]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... 48ad372c23

'Nobody should be comfortable at Redskins Park’: After another loss, a week of outrage ensues

By Dan Steinberg December 9 at 7:00 AM

[Yes...Steinberg posted the story this morning. Right. Before the game.]

The Redskins also lost Colt McCoy, likely for the season, and now face easily the most dire weekend of the year: another divisional game, this time with a quarterback who has been around for less than a month and with a shattered offensive line, a pessimistic fan base and a growing chorus of voices calling for significant, franchise-altering changes.

Such changes didn’t happen after last year’s late-season swoon. The injuries offered a valid excuse, and the Kirk Cousins for Alex Smith swap was thus the only major offseason upheaval. There’s no great way to judge where fans are on these issues or whether a continued slide down the standings this month would prompt universal demands for a change in course. But the people who talk to the fans seem to have had enough, anyhow. A few examples from the past week of outrage.

Kevin Sheehan, the longtime (former) host of the team’s pregame radio show, lit into the club’s leadership on his podcast this week, using as a peg the news that last Monday’s loss in Philadelphia earned just a 21.6 television rating, which just a few years ago would have been an unfathomably low number for a prime-time division game with first place on the line.

“The television ratings are just another in the list of things that make me believe that Dan Snyder is going to make big changes, barring a late season run,” Sheehan said. “If they don’t make the postseason, they have to get rid of Bruce [Allen] and Jay [Gruden]. They have to. The fan base is eroding at a faster clip than in recent years. The Indianapolis home opener crowd is a reflection of that. The ratings on television locally the other night is a reflection of that. They’ve got to be gone.

“Nobody wants Bruce back. Can we all agree on that?” Sheehan asked. “I haven’t met one person who wants him back.”

Sheehan then referenced Allen’s quote last spring, that “Wins and losses is the most important statistic when it comes to an equipment manager, a team president, a quarterback, a running back, a guard or a coach.” The Redskins are 58-81-1 in the nine seasons since Allen took control.

“Well, his record isn’t good enough,” Sheehan said. “And that’s on the field. Off the field, from a subjective standpoint, nonquantifiable: Arrogance. Limited, intelligence-wise, in terms of the way the organization is operated. Sleazy, low-rent too much of the time. They need a change because it’s warranted first and foremost based on record. But they need a change because it’s the only chance they have to keep the [fan base] from eroding at the clip that it has been diminishing at.”

Danny Rouhier, on 106.7 the Fan, was of a similar mind.

“The Redskins have been kind of dead man walking, and we haven’t really fully realized it,” he said this week. “All I know is nobody should be comfortable at Redskins Park today. Nobody should be. That’s from Bruce Allen on down, and if you could fire Dan Snyder, I’d fire him, too. Nobody with an office, nobody with a locker should be comfortable today. This season is over. And the infighting and the arguing about who should take snaps for the last four games, to me, is irrelevant. There’s no relevance to it. . . .

Full story lays it all out: fire Bruce Allen, Jay Gruden, and Dan Snyder if we could. Shred the team. Reset the culture.

[SkinsJock]

+1 - what a huge waste of time and talent the past 10 seasons have been - we've gone nowhere - this situation is hopeless

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Knee jerk reactions is nornal from the fans perspective- especially when the *sh$t* hits the fan...

But as a front office we've not only seen, but have written the book on how disastrous that is. New coach new gm.. New scheme- been there done that. Look at the carousel in Clevland for your answers- team has had the most top 10 picks in the last 10 drafts out of every team! I'd argue they are one of the youngest teams with the most talent out there- the new coach after new coach has kept them at the bottom of the league.

I'm not saying we are NE and in the best shape ever- but we are improving in our player management and acquisitions. Stay the course is hard when you have so much adversity- BUT who and what will flip it on a dime?
You can ask for changes, but it's meaningless without any solutions- ya?

The BIGGEST reason the Browns have turned things around is NOT due to the number of big time picks as much as the fact that those picks and the coaching staff have been put together by guys that know what they're doing

we can do that - we need to do things differently - the new NFL is about analytics and the new offenses - we are NOT that franchise - not even close

Oh ya? What did they turn around??? All the top picks you could dream for- still fired the HC mid season.. And still bot a winner.

I rest my case

[SkinsJock]

I hope Allen is fired and doesn't resign - Snyder probably keeps him on so the media and the fans can blame him for the mess we're in

[chiefhog44]

Knee jerk reactions is nornal from the fans perspective- especially when the *sh$t* hits the fan...

But as a front office we've not only seen, but have written the book on how disastrous that is. New coach new gm.. New scheme- been there done that. Look at the carousel in Clevland for your answers- team has had the most top 10 picks in the last 10 drafts out of every team! I'd argue they are one of the youngest teams with the most talent out there- the new coach after new coach has kept them at the bottom of the league.

I'm not saying we are NE and in the best shape ever- but we are improving in our player management and acquisitions. Stay the course is hard when you have so much adversity- BUT who and what will flip it on a dime?
You can ask for changes, but it's meaningless without any solutions- ya?

The BIGGEST reason the Browns have turned things around is NOT due to the number of big time picks as much as the fact that those picks and the coaching staff have been put together by guys that know what they're doing

we can do that - we need to do things differently - the new NFL is about analytics and the new offenses - we are NOT that franchise - not even close

Oh ya? What did they turn around??? All the top picks you could dream for- still fired the HC mid season.. And still bot a winner.

I rest my case

Rest your case. Haha. Come back to me in 2 years. I’ll let you rest it then. I watch the Browns quite a bit, and they’re on the right path. You clearly don’t watch them or you wouldn’t make that kinda comment. Does the trajectory continue moving in the right direction? Not sure, but they’ll be pretty decent in a couple years if it does.

He’s right about analytics. Probably a bad example he used though because their coaches don’t fit. Peterson and the Eagles are a better example. Chiefs, Rams, Bears, all are good examples.

[grampi]

6-10 here we come...

[SkinsJock]

OK, the Browns coaching staff is in transition but the franchise is headed in a good direction & they were in far worse shape than we are right now

we normally have a glimmer of hope but this franchise has no chance of turning things around by continuing to operate this way

I'm afraid that we're looking at going 6-10 after starting out 5-3 and before Thanksgiving we were looking at a good chance to be in the playoffs

surely something has to happen because of all that has happened here the past 10 years ...

the injuries have been bad but the behavior by the guys in charge has been far worse

[SkinsJock]

Knee jerk reactions is nornal from the fans perspective- especially when the *sh$t* hits the fan...
But as a front office we've not only seen, but have written the book on how disastrous that is. New coach new gm.. New scheme- been there done that. Look at the carousel in Clevland for your answers- team has had the most top 10 picks in the last 10 drafts out of every team! I'd argue they are one of the youngest teams with the most talent out there- the new coach after new coach has kept them at the bottom of the league.
I'm not saying we are NE and in the best shape ever- but we are improving in our player management and acquisitions. Stay the course is hard when you have so much adversity- BUT who and what will flip it on a dime?You can ask for changes, but it's meaningless without any solutions- ya?

The BIGGEST reason the Browns have turned things around is NOT due to the number of big time picks as much as the fact that those picks and the coaching staff have been put together by guys that know what they're doing - we can do that BUT we need to do things differently - the new NFL is about analytics and the new offenses - we are NOT that franchise - not even close

Oh ya? What did they turn around??? All the top picks you could dream for- still fired the HC mid season.. And still not a winner.
I rest my case

WRONG .... again Have you been watching the Browns these past 4 weeks - they ARE heading in the right direction
even if we made changes, we're still years away from having a consistently competitive product on the field - we have some good young players but the losing culture is very much evident & it is not that easy to get rid of - this is the way it is here

[Sonny9TD]

Cobb signs with Saints. Another front office mess up.

[welch]

I've started paying some attention to the Browns. Mark Maske, in the Post, notes that the Browns are now 6-7-1 and not far from a playoff spot.

It would have been plenty for the Cleveland Browns to have reached respectable status this season. They are, after all, the Browns, who have stumbled and bumbled their way through so much of their franchise history and who took the term laughingstock to new depths by posting a combined record of 1-31 over the previous two seasons.

But all of that was before Baker Mayfield arrived, and all Mayfield has changed for the Browns is everything. It is mid-December and these Browns — Mayfield’s Browns — are talking about playoff possibilities, not jockeying for the top overall pick in the NFL draft. These Browns have zoomed past respectable and are honest-to-goodness postseason contenders who will be playing a meaningful Week 16 game, thanks to Saturday night’s 17-16 triumph in Denver.

Who is coaching the Browns?

- interim head coach is Gregg Williams. We know him.

- senior offensive assistant is Al Saunders. We know him, too.

What if Dan Snyder had made Gregg Williams head coach, as Joe Gibbs wanted? What if Snyder had kept Al Saunders as offensive coordinator, the job for which Gibbs hired him in 2006?

[riggofan]

What if Dan Snyder had made Gregg Williams head coach, as Joe Gibbs wanted?

I'm a Gregg Williams fan. 100%. Can't deny his success with defenses and he seems capable of motivating players.

[El Mexican]

What if Dan Snyder had made Gregg Williams head coach, as Joe Gibbs wanted?

I'm a Gregg Williams fan. 100%. Can't deny his success with defenses and he seems capable of motivating players.

Maybe he motivated them a little too much.

Can't forget the bounty scandal with the Saints. "Kill the head".

[Sonny9TD]

Redskins doing everything they can to miss the playoffs and having just a good enough record to not get the best Offensive Lineman in the draft. Todd MbShay was dead on for our draft pick

[Countertrey]

What if Dan Snyder had made Gregg Williams head coach, as Joe Gibbs wanted?

I'm a Gregg Williams fan. 100%. Can't deny his success with defenses and he seems capable of motivating players.

Maybe he motivated them a little too much.

Can't forget the bounty scandal with the Saints. "Kill the head".

Way too much was made of that... I was struck by how few teams made a big deal of it. That says something ("there, but for the grace of God, go I").

[Countertrey]

Redskins doing everything they can to miss the playoffs and having just a good enough record to not get the best Offensive Lineman in the draft. Todd MbShay was dead on for our draft pick

I'm as frustrated as anyone... but, let's not pretend that this team was not absolutely decimated by injury disasters.

[SkinsJock]

Where the Redskins draft is not nearly as important as who is making those draft picks ... there are a lot of very talented players available and finding players that can make the roster from the lower rounds is even more important than identifying the top 50 players - anyone can look good with the top 2 rounds, it's who your scouts identify in the later rounds that help make a franchise better

[riggofan]

Way too much was made of that... I was struck by how few teams made a big deal of it. That says something ("there, but for the grace of God, go I").

COMPLETELY agree with this.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

The BIGGEST reason the Browns have turned things around is NOT due to the number of big time picks as much as the fact that those picks and the coaching staff have been put together by guys that know what they're doing - we can do that BUT we need to do things differently - the new NFL is about analytics and the new offenses - we are NOT that franchise - not even close

Oh ya? What did they turn around??? All the top picks you could dream for- still fired the HC mid season.. And still not a winner.
I rest my case

WRONG .... again Have you been watching the Browns these past 4 weeks - they ARE heading in the right direction
even if we made changes, we're still years away from having a consistently competitive product on the field - we have some good young players but the losing culture is very much evident & it is not that easy to get rid of - this is the way it is here

LMAO you claim it isnt the picks... Yet having number 1 pick (again) getting Baker Maker has nothing to do with the success this year? Or a roster built on the most top 10 picks in the last decade?? They had TWO this past draft in the top 5!!!

But no... Its good coaching and good front office?!?!? Bruh, seriously???

As much as a fan i am of Greg Williams, and don't see his recent success as any shocker, (the team is loaded with talent!) you cant just choose to overlook the fact that the HC was fired mid season and GW the interim.

A mid season firing of the HC doesn't say "this teams front office is heading in the right direction" it screams hail Mary hopefully someone can save us!

The talent is vast on the Browns, my point. And ya, hiring GW as DC was a great move... In hindsight it looks like he was better fit for the HC gig- but it wasn't master minds up top, it was a knee jerk reaction that lead to throwing isht at the wall and hoping it sticks- and thus far its panning out. There is a difference.

Had GW been signed as HC and it was all by design in the off-season, then you could claim it was a good FO in place... That many top 10 picks this decade, different qbs, and HCs, is why its easy to say "oh look how good they are doing" when we have a better record minus 20 players to IR including starting qb and on the 4th qb of the year.

I never said the Browns aren't going anywhere... They SHOULD be the best in the NFL!

[SkinsJock]

Oh ya? What did they turn around? All the top picks you could dream for- still fired the HC mid season.. And still not a winner. I rest my case

rationalize it all you want and twist the facts to suit your own agenda - the Browns record is not quite as good as ours right now but nobody with any sense can look at both franchises and not see that what is going on there and here and not realize how badly managed this franchise is

the Browns are getting better while we're looking at years to overcome some stupid decisions here