Is This a Touchdown ?

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:48 pm

Is this a touchdown ?

Comments are welcome.

flamethrower · Post by **flamethrower** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:56 pm

According to the Official rule book of the NFL. Which is kinda dumb. But, according to the rule book it ain't. My personal opinion don't matter.

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:21 pm

No, it is not a touchdown knee is clearly down before the receiver crosses the goal line and is touched it is however a completed catch according to the "rules"

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:00 am

TexasCowboy wrote:No, it is not a touchdown knee is clearly down before the receiver crosses the goal line and is touched it is however a completed catch according to the "rules"

Just to clarify:

Are you saying it is not a TD because he is down by contact before the ball crosses the goal line?

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:44 pm

That is exactly what I am saying Monk it cannot be any more clearer than that

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:02 pm

Now for further clarification:

Do you maintain that a Patriot touched him before the ball crossed the goal line?

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:47 pm

Dumb question when it is clear that Bolden touched him to avoid any miss communication that should a ref decide that James is not down at his own behest Bolden wanted to make sure James was not able to advance the ball. I'd say that kills 2 birds with 1 stone regardless James is down and the play is dead, NO, the game is not technically over, unless it is ruled a touchdown which it was
not have been but the Steeler's worst mistake was attempting that weak fake at the end

the smart move is handing it off that is what cost them the game

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:59 pm

Now for further clarification:

Do you maintain that a Patriot touched him before the ball crossed the goal line?

TexasCowboy wrote:Dumb question ...

Perhaps but you didn't answer it.

If you say "Yes, he touched him before the ball crossed the goal line" then I would say that is clearly wrong.

If you say "No, he touched him after the ball crossed the goal line" then James was not down by rule 7a the instant his knee touched the ground.

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:08 pm

He does not need to touch him prior all he needs to do is make the contact and he did that

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:15 pm

TexasCowboy wrote:He does not need to touch him prior all he needs to do is make the contact and he did that

I am taking this to mean that you think the Patriot need not touch James to make James be down. That is, you think James is down the moment his knee touches the ground even though there has been no contact with a Patriot yet.

Is that what you are saying?

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:29 pm

Once again he did what was required

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:53 pm

TexasCowboy wrote:Once again he did what was required

This is unclear. When you say "he" did what was required do you mean James or the Patriot?

Why not just answer what I asked below?

DarthMonk wrote:
TexasCowboy wrote:He does not need to touch him prior all he needs to do is make the contact and he did that
I am taking this to mean that you think the Patriot need not touch James to make James be down. That is, you think James is down the moment his knee touches the ground even though there has been no contact with a Patriot yet.

Is that what you are saying?

Recall this please:

DarthMonk wrote:
TexasCowboy wrote:No, it is not a touchdown knee is clearly down before the receiver crosses the goal line and is touched it is however a completed catch according to the "rules"
Just to clarify:

Are you saying it is not a TD because he is down by contact before the ball crosses the goal line?

TexasCowboy wrote:That is exactly what I am saying Monk it cannot be any more clearer than that

THUS YOU ARE ON RECORD AS SAYING HE IS DOWN BY CONTACT BEFORE THE BALL CROSSES THE GOAL LINE AND I AM ASKING YOU IF THE PATRIOT TOUCHED HIM BEFORE THE BALL CROSSED THE GOAL LINE. i'LL ASK AGAIN:

DID THE PATRIOT TOUCH HIM BEFORE THE BALL CROSSED THE GOAL LINE?

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:04 pm

The problem with the "rule" is that the rule never needed changing once again nowhere else in football does this apply except in the NFL overly complicating what constitutes a "catch" so I agree
with Tomlin that there needs to be a change to the way of old regarding the matter

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:09 pm

TexasCowboy wrote:The problem with the "rule" is that the rule never needed changing once again nowhere else in football does this apply except in the NFL overly complicating what constitutes a "catch" so I agree
with Tomlin that there needs to be a change to the way of old regarding the matter

The "rule" currently at issue is what constitutes a runner being down.

https://www.gridironwest.com.au/resourc ... -nfl-rules

How Players are Ruled Down

Perhaps the most glaring difference between the college and pro games is how players are ruled “down”.

In the NFL, a player is down when he is either on the ground and touched by an opposing player or goes to the ground as a result of contact with an opposing player.

In college, a player is down whenever a part of his body other than his feet or hands touches the ground, regardless of whether or not he was touched by an opposing player.

What that means is that if an NFL player falls to the ground without being touched–say after making a diving catch or losing his footing—he can get back up and keep running because the play is still live. In college, he’d be down.

Your posts in this thread indicate you are confused on this point.

Does the Patriot touch James before the ball crosses the goal line? If not, then he is not down the moment his knee touches the ground.

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:16 pm

That's right Monk the issue is was the runner down prior to the ball striking the turf? you admitted that he is clearly down prior to the ball striking the turf so under the rule tell me again how the play continues when it is a dead ball issue at that point

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:58 pm

TexasCowboy wrote:That's right Monk the issue is was the runner down prior to the ball striking the turf? you admitted that he is clearly down prior to the ball striking the turf so under the rule tell me again how the play continues when it is a dead ball issue at that point

I never admitted the runner was ever down. Show me where I did. You said he was down before the ball crossed the goal line. How so?

Rule 7a you keep citing does not support your contention.

You are doing a lot of dodging here.

Did the Patriot touch him before the ball crossed the goal line?

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:42 pm

Learn to read, I said you admitted he was down, NOT that you claimed he was never down prior to reaching the goal line

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:22 pm

TexasCowboy wrote:Learn to read, I said you admitted he was down, NOT that you claimed he was never down prior to reaching the goal line

Show me where I admitted he was down ... ever.

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:29 pm

Is the leg down prior to reaching the goal line yes or no?

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:36 pm

TexasCowboy wrote:

Is the leg down prior to reaching the goal line yes or no?

Yes insofar as the knee is touching the ground, the LEG is down. We have already established that.

HE, TE Jesse James, would be down at the one yard line at the moment his knee struck the ground before being touched by a defender IN COLLEGE.

This is the NFL.

Then I asked something you have never answered:

Did the Patriot touch him before the ball crossed the goal line?

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:41 pm

So, what is your argument for a non-catch? since you have clearly established the leg down which puts rule 7a into full effect of a dead ball situation, having the receiver making contact with a defender and cannot advance the ball in that situation, the ground cannot cause a fumble, Nor can it make a catch incomplete according to the "rule" when the receiver has already taken the
proper steps to ensure the ball is secured prior to the ground

tell me what argument do you have left?

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:50 am

First things first-did the Patriot touch James before the ball crossed the goal line?

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:52 am

The defender does not have to make the first required contact tell me what is your argument for a non catch?

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:14 pm

First things first - did the Patriot touch James before the ball crossed the goal line?

A simple yes or no will do.

TexasCowboy · Post by **TexasCowboy** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:03 pm

Spamming the same question is failing to answer the question and just shows that at this point you've lost to a Cowboys fan regarding the matter

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