Gruden Year 4

[mastdark81]

What are your expectations? I feel alot of fans are just satisfied with playoffs. To me year 3 you should be competing in the playoffs and looked at as a possible Super Bowl contender in a perfect world.

I think from an organization standpoint I think it is kinda a shame that you have went 4 years without any long term commitment at the qb position or any resources (draft) for a possible replacement.

So it ain't all on Gruden but this year my expectations for a coach in his situation, would be to win a playoff game at least.

[SkinsJock]

For Jay Gruden to be here next season he would have to clearly show that he's a better HC than he's clearly shown to date

after all they've gone through here, I don't think that Cousins or Gruden will want to be here next season anyway

[SkinsJock]

What are your expectations? I feel a lot of fans are just satisfied with making the playoffs.

when you consider all we've been through since 1999, making the playoffs is actually exceeding most NFL pundits expectations

we know that with this owner we really don't have anyone who knows anything about the NFL and what it takes

making the playoffs is what many here consider a "winning" season even though it is very clear that the few times we've done that since 1999 has only been due to luck and not because the franchise has a plan in place for improving the roster or hiring an effective coaching staff

losing a game to the Redskins is perceived as a bad loss by most franchises

I'm just waiting for this idiot owner to realize that he will never be solely responsible for this franchise consistently making the playoffs .. EVER

[mastdark81]

I just feel the majority of the fanbase just expect playoffs since we didnt' make it this year. In year 4 of Gruden we suppose to be challenging teams and winning playoff games.

[El Mexican]

What are your expectations? I feel alot of fans are just satisfied with playoffs. To me year 3 you should be competing in the playoffs and looked at as a possible Super Bowl contender in a perfect world.

I think from an organization standpoint I think it is kinda a shame that you have went 4 years without any long term commitment at the qb position or any resources (draft) for a possible replacement.

So it ain't all on Gruden but this year my expectations for a coach in his situation, would be to win a playoff game at least.

I'm really starting to lose faith in this leadership.

It's clear that Gruden will never establish a decent running game and is betting everything on good QB play. I think that's a mistake.
Defense, once again, looks terrible.

I'll wait until week 8 to make a proper assessment of this year's team, but frankly, I don't see strong fundamentals to be competitive in the near future.

[DarthMonk]

I thought this was strictly a game day sub-forum.

[Countertrey]

Moved to Hogwash main...

[HEROHAMO]

Grudens not the best nor is he the worst.

[SkinsJock]

Grudens not the best nor is he the worst.

kind of what some of us think about this franchise - not the worst but definitely not the best - mediocre at best

[welch]

Seems like the Redskins are (re)building, and, yes, Snyder tore apart the organization when he bought the team, and he's been watching them rebuild ever since. I hope that the team shows some improvement over last season. Maybe an improvement someplace on defense. On offense? Gruden seems attached to passing about 2/3 of the time. Maybe that's the way the NFL is going? I don't like watching that offense, but maybe there is no choice.

[riggofan]

It's clear that Gruden will never establish a decent running game and is betting everything on good QB play. I think that's a mistake.
Defense, once again, looks terrible.

This post looks really good in hindsight. I note you wrote it before the Rams game.

Completely disagree about the defense btw. They still have work to do, but they invested heavily in that side of the ball this offseason. Again, not saying they've arrived but the defense has been notably improved from last year's mess (which I admit was an incredibly low bar).

[DEHog]

This sums up my feelings about JG, he seems so overwhelmed at times, I don’t ever see him competing deep into the playoffs. After 4 years he has not improved as a game manager and my fears are that we have seen the best of JG.

[riggofan]

What are your expectations? I feel alot of fans are just satisfied with playoffs. To me year 3 you should be competing in the playoffs and looked at as a possible Super Bowl contender in a perfect world.

I definitely agree about the year 3 comment. I would still argue though that this franchise cannot be looked at as "in a perfect world". It has to be one of the must unstable franchises over the past 25 years. Snyder has constantly been blowing it up, not building any kind of base for the team through the draft. With any halfway decently run team, a new coach would have a better starting point.

I'd point to the 49ers as a good example. That team has been 8-8, 5-11, 2-14 the past three years and looked very dysfunctional along the way. I personally think if Kyle does a half decent job, he could have that team competing in the playoffs the way you've described easily in the next two or three years. He's got a pretty good roster of young, drafted players that he inherited. Not many Redskins coaches in the past two decades have walked in here able to say that.

[El Mexican]

It's clear that Gruden will never establish a decent running game and is betting everything on good QB play. I think that's a mistake.
Defense, once again, looks terrible.

This post looks really good in hindsight. I note you wrote it before the Rams game.

Completely disagree about the defense btw. They still have work to do, but they invested heavily in that side of the ball this offseason. Again, not saying they've arrived but the defense has been notably improved from last year's mess (which I admit was an incredibly low bar).

That's exactly what I'm trying to get to.

This team is schizophrenic. Under Gruden, we have never really established a clear identity. One week the defense sucks; next game, it's solid.

Same goes for the running game: it's incredibly unbalanced. We commit, sometimes, and results are great. Then it suddenly dissapears and KC throws 40+ passes in a losing effort. Again, an identity problem.

We seem like a good 8-8 team. With a few bounces that go or do not go our way we can be 10-6 or 6-10.

Not really sure if that's progress in this league during year 4 for any coach.

[Hooligan]

That's exactly what I'm trying to get to.

This team is schizophrenic. Under Gruden, we have never really established a clear identity. One week the defense sucks; next game, it's solid.

Same goes for the running game: it's incredibly unbalanced. We commit, sometimes, and results are great. Then it suddenly dissapears and KC throws 40+ passes in a losing effort. Again, an identity problem.

We seem like a good 8-8 team. With a few bounces that go or do not go our way we can be 10-6 or 6-10.

Not really sure if that's progress in this league during year 4 for any coach.

That's the really damning thing about Gruden and his coaching staff: His inability to prepare the team to play. It's a coin flip to see whether an effective, competent offense or defense is going to show up.

[riggofan]

That's the really damning thing about Gruden and his coaching staff: His inability to prepare the team to play. It's a coin flip to see whether an effective, competent offense or defense is going to show up.

So essentially your requirement for the coaching staff is that their teams can never be outplayed or beaten. Otherwise its a damning indictment. Seems realistic.

[riggofan]

Kind of a tangent here, but didn't want to start a whole new thread. This interview with Santana talking about that last year with Shanahan is eye opening and worth a read. A lot of stuff in here he confirms that people were guessing at.

I thought his comment about Jay Gruden was relevant though. Kind of different I think from what we see publicly from Gruden:

“So 2014 comes, and Jay Gruden comes in, and he don’t care,” Moss continued. “We see that now. He doesn’t care. He doesn’t care what he says about you, he doesn’t care what he says at you.

“And he rips RG every chance he gets, like every meeting, and we’re sitting there looking like, ‘Yeah. You know what? You were just so happy that Mike and Kyle and them is gone, but now you’re getting your behind ripped every day, because you’re not playing the kind of football that we need to play for us to be successful.'”

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/09/ ... -shanahan/

[mastdark81]

I think you know great coaches when you see them. Same way with players. While I think Gruden has room to grow as a coach, I know for sure he isn't the next Joe Gibbs or anywhere close.

One thing we must all agree upon is unlike the Cowboys, our coach is really the voice of the Redskins and have enough power needed. I tend to think Bruce and Dan like him alot and actually preferred him over McCloughan when it came down to it.

But another thing is as a good coach you have to put good coaches around you. Gruden have not done so with success here. Lets be real Joe Barry hiring was laughable around the league, especially since they passed over Wade Phillips a few times. I believe the Callahan hiring was all Bruce. He has ties to him back in Oakland. Promoting former Bears qb coach to offensive coordinator was also very questionable.

I think Manusky, while not great may be along the line of Haslett. Competent but not a top 10 d coordinator.

[Smithian]

I'm a Gruden fan for being a calming influence on the franchise. I think keeping Haslett was dumb, but that may not have been all him. And I don't think Barry was the worst as much as he had zero talent. Manusky has a bit better talent and not surprisingly has a more comeptent group.

I give Gruden credit as an offensive mind for turning not great talents like Dalton and Cousins into guys who are somehow just good enough a team can't let them go. I'd love to see what a Jon or Jay Gruden offense could do with a legit talent at QB and not just a game manager.

[riggofan]

I agree Smithian about the calming influence. My take for a while has been that Gruden has been okay. Not horrible and not great, but good enough. Some positives IMO:

1) Four years of relative stability. Well, three. Throw out that first year with Griffin. I've been screaming for years that a team can't build something when you're scrapping everything and starting over every two years.
2) Shows some adaptability and willingness to change. I'm sure there are some examples where this isn't the case, but Gruden looks like a guy who has learned over these four years and gotten at least a little better from that deer in the headlights guy of year one.
3) I like that he values performance over reputation. There are numerous examples on this team of high round draft picks, FAs, etc; who are gone because they didn't perform.
4) Most importantly, he seems to have figured out how to work with Bruce and Dan. I mean seriously, that fact alone that he's in year 4 and hasn't quit or been fired should tell everyone something. Maybe he's not the best coach in the NFL, but he might be the best coach in the NFL right now for THIS franchise.

Its going to be a tough year. I hope the team does at least well enough to keep things on track.

[SkinsJock]

It's going to be a 'tough year' each and every season that Dan Snyder keeps interfering and meddling with this franchise

[riggofan]

It's going to be a 'tough year' each and every season that Dan Snyder keeps interfering and meddling with this franchise

Really adding a lot to the conversation. If you like, I can write a script for you to just auto post this comment every hour. Might save you some time.

[mastdark81]

I agree Smithian about the calming influence. My take for a while has been that Gruden has been okay. Not horrible and not great, but good enough. Some positives IMO:

1) Four years of relative stability. Well, three. Throw out that first year with Griffin. I've been screaming for years that a team can't build something when you're scrapping everything and starting over every two years.
2) Shows some adaptability and willingness to change. I'm sure there are some examples where this isn't the case, but Gruden looks like a guy who has learned over these four years and gotten at least a little better from that deer in the headlights guy of year one.
3) I like that he values performance over reputation. There are numerous examples on this team of high round draft picks, FAs, etc; who are gone because they didn't perform.
4) Most importantly, he seems to have figured out how to work with Bruce and Dan. I mean seriously, that fact alone that he's in year 4 and hasn't quit or been fired should tell everyone something. Maybe he's not the best coach in the NFL, but he might be the best coach in the NFL right now for THIS franchise.

Its going to be a tough year. I hope the team does at least well enough to keep things on track.

1. Haslett, Barry, and now Manusky. Scott McCloughan fired. No longterm deal with starting qb. Not exactly stability.

2. Case in example?

3. Which high draft picks? I consider high as 1-3 rounds.

[SkinsJock]

It's going to be a 'tough year' each and every season that Dan Snyder keeps interfering and meddling with this franchise

If you like, I can write a script for you to just auto post this comment every hour. Might save you some time.

thanks for the offer - no worries, I can handle it

I'll stop posting comments about Snyder when fans here stop trying to make out that others are more responsible for all the issues here

[riggofan]

1. Haslett, Barry, and now Manusky. Scott McCloughan fired. No longterm deal with starting qb. Not exactly stability.

Believe I said "relative stability". And by relative, I mean compared to the previous twenty years of this franchise - not compared to the rest of the NFL.

Swapping out defensive coordinators hasn't required the team to completely start the defense over from scratch. Agree with you that the Cousins contract has been a looming negative, but you can't put that one on Gruden. He's still started the same QB for three consecutive years with decent results. (I have no idea what the firing of Scot McCloughan has to do with Gruden's performance as head coach.)

2. Case in example?

I think a big one is how he talks to the media. First year he was way too friendly and trusting of them. If you see him in interviews or at the podium now, I think he's way more guarded and reserved in what he'll say. Early on he was also more publicly critical of players.

3. Which high draft picks? I consider high as 1-3 rounds.

Josh LeRibeus? Matt Jones? RG3? Docston is certainly having to work out of his dog house. Su'a Cravens was reportedly trying to come back to the team last week and was placed on the season ending list.