I know this will come up so let’s get it started…Does this mean anything or is it much to do about nothing??
Reporters outside the Redskins locker room could hear Gruden ripping into his team, accusing them of not giving maximum effort in the week leading up to the game.
I’m on record as not thinking Gruden is “the guy” good OC, not HC so much. That said we are and have been in a rebuilding process (year two with Scot) so I’m not ready to pull the plug on Gruden this year. Winning the division last year spoiled a lot of fans and they expected it again this year. I was on record as saying that I could see them being better this year but missing the playoffs (because of the schedule) with a 8-8 record, and I do think they are a better team this year.
As for his outburst, if you’re unhappy with the effort during the week that’s on you…I’m sure it’s going to be a tough week in Ashburn. Will be interesting to see how the team reacts to Gruden this week…players seem to like him, let’s see if they have his back Sunday in Philly??
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
This game this week is a chance for this team to gain a modicum of respect back
we are an 8-8 team but we have played more than a few games we should have won - that's the NFL in a way but it's frustrating as hell to see the lack of effort on the field and that is due to coaching - we continually run plays or play defense in a way that does not at all suit the players on the field - whose fault is that?
we have an offense that continually leaves points on the field - the defense could be better but the offense is not helping them out at all
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
If the Skins respond to getting their ass torn out by showing up and curb-stomping Philly, I'll settle for missing the playoffs. It means the players are behind Gruden and the coaching staff, and that pays off in the long run. I really, really want a young coaching staff to gel with a young team and have a nice long (successful) run.
this team has already lost 3 or 4 games this season due to bad decision making
admittedly, looking at the schedule and the fact that this team was still 'recovering' from the disaster of Snyder's bad decisions, we were expecting an 8 or 9 win season - nobody expected the implosion of so many NFL teams but we also failed to capitalize on having Cousins play really well and this offense having the weapons we have at WR/TE
finishing 8-7-1 will be a disappointing season, when you consider what could have been - If Gruden can find a way to finish this season with 9 or 10 wins and have his coaches and players do their jobs well .... this could be the start of something good here
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
DEHog wrote:I know this will come up so let’s get it started…Does this mean anything or is it much to do about nothing??
Reporters outside the Redskins locker room could hear Gruden ripping into his team, accusing them of not giving maximum effort in the week leading up to the game.
I’m on record as not thinking Gruden is “the guy” good OC, not HC so much. That said we are and have been in a rebuilding process (year two with Scot) so I’m not ready to pull the plug on Gruden this year. Winning the division last year spoiled a lot of fans and they expected it again this year. I was on record as saying that I could see them being better this year but missing the playoffs (because of the schedule) with a 8-8 record, and I do think they are a better team this year.
As for his outburst, if you’re unhappy with the effort during the week that’s on you…I’m sure it’s going to be a tough week in Ashburn. Will be interesting to see how the team reacts to Gruden this week…players seem to like him, let’s see if they have his back Sunday in Philly??
It's impossible to blame Gruden when the defense couldn't tackle a fishing box. The defensive line other than Baker is garbage. They've gotten squat out of Preston Smith and not much pass rush elsewhere. The safeties just plain suck. Kendall Fuller couldn't cover a sleeping baby in a crib with a blanket. Breeland has taken two or three steps backwards this season. Other than three or four players the defense is just terrible. They can't stop a team by accident.
Having said that, I think they need to address the defense this off-season like they did the offense last off-season. Then the coaching staff will have no excuses. Right now they have a good one. The offense can't be expected to put up 350 passing yards and 35 points every game just to compete.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
DEHog wrote:I know this will come up so let’s get it started…Does this mean anything or is it much to do about nothing??
Reporters outside the Redskins locker room could hear Gruden ripping into his team, accusing them of not giving maximum effort in the week leading up to the game.
I’m on record as not thinking Gruden is “the guy” good OC, not HC so much. That said we are and have been in a rebuilding process (year two with Scot) so I’m not ready to pull the plug on Gruden this year. Winning the division last year spoiled a lot of fans and they expected it again this year. I was on record as saying that I could see them being better this year but missing the playoffs (because of the schedule) with a 8-8 record, and I do think they are a better team this year.
As for his outburst, if you’re unhappy with the effort during the week that’s on you…I’m sure it’s going to be a tough week in Ashburn. Will be interesting to see how the team reacts to Gruden this week…players seem to like him, let’s see if they have his back Sunday in Philly??
It's impossible to blame Gruden when the defense couldn't tackle a fishing box. The defensive line other than Baker is garbage. They've gotten squat out of Preston Smith and not much pass rush elsewhere. The safeties just plain suck. Kendall Fuller couldn't cover a sleeping baby in a crib with a blanket. Breeland has taken two or three steps backwards this season. Other than three or four players the defense is just terrible. They can't stop a team by accident.
Having said that, I think they need to address the defense this off-season like they did the offense last off-season. Then the coaching staff will have no excuses. Right now they have a good one. The offense can't be expected to put up 350 passing yards and 35 points every game just to compete.
I'm not saying it is or isn't...as a HC I think the jury is still out and I'm willing to allow him to coach out his contract, I think that's how you find legit HC's. On the lack of effort in practice that is squarely on Gruden...I will agree with you, been saying it most of the year, the tackling is aweful!!
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
DEHog wrote:I'm not saying it is or isn't...as a HC I think the jury is still out and I'm willing to allow him to coach out his contract, I think that's how you find legit HC's. On the lack of effort in practice that is squarely on Gruden...I will agree with you, been saying it most of the year, the tackling is aweful!!
The lack of effort in practice is definitely on the coaching staff. They know the CBA doesn't allow them to hold more than two practices a day, and only for so much time. Therefore, if they don't like what they see they have to address it immediately. You play like you practice which means 15 minutes of not jacking around is better than an hour of jacking around. Lighting into them after they've blown controlling their own destiny against a 4-6 team might fall on deaf ears.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
Really? I never ever even thought Gruden's butt chewing would be taken by the players as anything but what they needed. They deserved it AND knew it. A coach who does it all the time isn't respected, a coach who does it only occasionally (and when appropriate) is respected. Gruden is not the issue.
As previously posted, this defense is horrible. Lacks talent at every level. It's clear we need to spend more on the defense in the off season and draft a lot of defenders. Our offense is set...and I'm actually okay letting both Jackson and Garcon walk, if that money is needed to improve the Defense. We could live with the others guys we already have. Don't get me wrong, would love to have one or both of those WRs back but we need to get at defense in the draft:
On defense:
2 DL -- not even sure Baker is good enough to overpay. If there's a FA better than him, let him walk.
2 ILB -- NOT impressed with Compton or Foster.
2 safeties -- Duke and Will would be fine backups.
Cravens is a tweener so not sure he is a starter next year.
I could see us drafting the best DL, ILB, Safety available with first pick. NOT the BPA but the Best Defender Available. BPA resulted in us drafting a WR this past draft. He sure hasn't helped.
On offense we could use:
1 RB -- looks like Jones is gone
1 OG -- after yesterday, Lauvao is done.
I saw losses when Joe Gibbs coached the Redskins. Sure, they won most of the time, but they also lost some games during the time between Joe's first season and his retirement.
There were stories that sometimes Gibbs broke chairs during half-time, but I don't remember him throwing a temper tantrum after a game.
If the 'Skins had been flat, Coach Joe would say "It's my job to get the team prepared for this game. I didn't." He did that so many times, we could predict what he would say. If there were turnovers? "I didn't do my job". Penalties? "I didn't do my job".
Yes, the 2016 Redskins have a sloppy defense, and the offense does not grind down a defense the way the Gibbs / Breaux / Henning / Bugel / Hanifan teams did. Still, there is something strange about Gruden's outburst.
fredp45 wrote:As previously posted, this defense is horrible. Lacks talent at every level.
I'm with you 100% on that one. I'm not criticizing McCloughan on this - no doubt that guys knows more about picking players and building a team than I do - but the fact is that we didn't get much immediate defensive help in the draft. Hopefully Cravens and Fuller develop over time (not to mention Docston). More importantly, most of the guys he brought in to help through free agency: Paea, Bruton, Reyes, etc; haven't helped at all and aren't even on the roster.
I honestly don't blame McCloughan for those free agent guys. Its going to take time to build that defense up, and its not going to happen through free agency IMO.
As far as Gruden's "outburst", good for him. Those first drives on offense and defense both were embarrassing on every level. Everyone involved deserved to have their a**es chewed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
You can't be easy on the players all year and finally have an outburst AFTER the game. He should have been barking at them at halftime. Jay stop sellin the wolf tickets and bench players. That is the only way you can get a consistent reaction out of them.
mastdark81 wrote:You can't be easy on the players all year and finally have an outburst AFTER the game. He should have been barking at them at halftime. Jay stop sellin the wolf tickets and bench players. That is the only way you can get a consistent reaction out of them.
Yeah as someone who has coached for 20 years, I can tell you that one thing that wins games is yelling at players a lot. Its always really effective. Even bad players can win games if you yell at them often and loudly enough.
Jay never benches players. Right, Matt Jones?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
fredp45 wrote:Really? I never ever even thought Gruden's butt chewing would be taken by the players as anything but what they needed. They deserved it AND knew it. A coach who does it all the time isn't respected, a coach who does it only occasionally (and when appropriate) is respected. Gruden is not the issue.
As previously posted, this defense is horrible. Lacks talent at every level. It's clear we need to spend more on the defense in the off season and draft a lot of defenders. Our offense is set...and I'm actually okay letting both Jackson and Garcon walk, if that money is needed to improve the Defense. We could live with the others guys we already have. Don't get me wrong, would love to have one or both of those WRs back but we need to get at defense in the draft:
On defense:
2 DL -- not even sure Baker is good enough to overpay. If there's a FA better than him, let him walk.
2 ILB -- NOT impressed with Compton or Foster.
2 safeties -- Duke and Will would be fine backups.
Cravens is a tweener so not sure he is a starter next year.
I could see us drafting the best DL, ILB, Safety available with first pick. NOT the BPA but the Best Defender Available. BPA resulted in us drafting a WR this past draft. He sure hasn't helped.
On offense we could use:
1 RB -- looks like Jones is gone
1 OG -- after yesterday, Lauvao is done.
100% agree with this post. We need defense defense defense in next year's draft. Luavao is done no doubt. I would prefer a run mauling OG in the draft, but we need to use our picks on the defensive end. Maybe we can move Long back to OG and draft a C. There are quite a few who are expected to start on Sunday in the upcoming draft. There's also a lot of RBs. Maybe we can address those positions in rounds 3 and 4 while using 1 & 2 on best DL, LB, S. I think Fuller will improve and have Breeland back on the bench where he belongs. He's been awful this year, as have the safeties.
The really neat thing about building the team through the draft and ONLY taking the BPA is that no team can have enough good players and we have a franchise that is still getting over drafting for need and adding free agents at positions of need
this franchise should continue to just add BPA through the draft or free agency and never go back to the old style way of adding players it's antiquated and it does not work
Gruden is savvy enough to know what the players need and we should see the results of that outburst this Sunday
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
mastdark81 wrote:You can't be easy on the players all year and finally have an outburst AFTER the game. He should have been barking at them at halftime. Jay stop sellin the wolf tickets and bench players. That is the only way you can get a consistent reaction out of them.
Yeah as someone who has coached for 20 years, I can tell you that one thing that wins games is yelling at players a lot. Its always really effective. Even bad players can win games if you yell at them often and loudly enough.
Jay never benches players. Right, Matt Jones?
You have to motivate players anyway you can that is part of being a good coach. May not get to all players but will get to some for sure. You have to let guys know there is an urgency and that is one method in doing so. It is not always how you say it but what you say. It was enough to make an impact on the media maybe it resonated to some of the players.
Matt Jones had a mysterious injury and was really never benched. Is that you Jay?
mastdark81 wrote:Matt Jones had a mysterious injury and was really never benched. Is that you Jay?
He didn't get his job back when healthy, did he? But if you need a benching example, look no further than Cleveland's latest starting QB, RGIII.
No he didn't. That is a bench due to a supposed "injury". Most of the guys that have been relieved of their duties have been due to injury and not peformance.
Speaking of Rg3 if Jay Gruden had the balls Rg3 should have never started in 2014 and our club would have been in much better shape, instead he put on some burgundy and gold panties as you did when you replied like a sucka!
mastdark81 wrote:No he didn't. That is a bench due to a supposed "injury". Most of the guys that have been relieved of their duties have been due to injury and not peformance.
Give me a break. He's not on the injury report, and he's not playing.
mastdark81 wrote:Speaking of Rg3 if Jay Gruden had the balls Rg3 should have never started in 2014 and our club would have been in much better shape, instead he put on some burgundy and gold panties as you did when you replied like a sucka!
That's nonsense, and you know it. We're all dumber for having read this.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
mastdark81 wrote:No he didn't. That is a bench due to a supposed "injury". Most of the guys that have been relieved of their duties have been due to injury and not peformance.
Give me a break. He's not on the injury report, and he's not playing.
mastdark81 wrote:Speaking of Rg3 if Jay Gruden had the balls Rg3 should have never started in 2014 and our club would have been in much better shape, instead he put on some burgundy and gold panties as you did when you replied like a sucka!
That's nonsense, and you know it. We're all dumber for having read this.
My bad didn't mean to say it that way. I'm saying he rarely out right benches a player. Usually when the benching occurs they use this as an easy escape route to never give them their job back once fully healthy. Matt Jones sucked last year and the competition should have been fair since Morris didn't return. What is crazy is he probably still leads the league in fumbles totals the last two years for rbs. You called yourself dumb, I didn't.
Gruden is a mystery, he is loyal to the players and very conservative once a player earned his spot he really has to screw up to loose it. I like that in a coach and I respect it. I think he does a good job preparing the team to play, he'll get better with experience but he's doing well enough right now to win games. How do you package those positive qualities with his gametime bad instincts and judgement? I drag race and some guys just go braindead at the start of that engine, like deer in the headlights, you can't fix that. Probably adrenalin rush that doesn't go away. Is this what I'm seeing in Gruden? He'll call 3 passplays on the goal line with empty backfield and then run for it on 4th & 3 on their 45yd yard line. That is not normal decision making.
oj wrote:Gruden is a mystery, he is loyal to the players and very conservative once a player earned his spot he really has to screw up to loose it. I like that in a coach and I respect it. I think he does a good job preparing the team to play, he'll get better with experience but he's doing well enough right now to win games. How do you package those positive qualities with his gametime bad instincts and judgement? I drag race and some guys just go braindead at the start of that engine, like deer in the headlights, you can't fix that. Probably adrenalin rush that doesn't go away. Is this what I'm seeing in Gruden? He'll call 3 passplays on the goal line with empty backfield and then run for it on 4th & 3 on their 45yd yard line. That is not normal decision making.
IF we finish up 3-1 or 4-0, there's no 'debate' - Gruden's a lock ...
anyone with even a little bit of NFL 'sense' can see that this franchise is headed in the right direction since Scot came in and following the absolute disaster that was this franchise in 2014 with little to no chance of having anything looking like a decent product on the field for possibly 4-5 years in order to dispose of the trash that made up most of our roster
the coach we have should be allowed to stay if only to enable a little bit of continuity to continue as Scot continues to make this franchise better through adding the BPA to the roster and not succumbing to the temptations that so many loser franchises follow
the NFL can be a really stupid place to work when it comes down to wins and losses and not to what is best for this franchise
the idiot owner has not been heard from in quite a while ...
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
oj wrote:Gruden is a mystery, he is loyal to the players and very conservative once a player earned his spot he really has to screw up to loose it. I like that in a coach and I respect it. I think he does a good job preparing the team to play, he'll get better with experience but he's doing well enough right now to win games. How do you package those positive qualities with his gametime bad instincts and judgement? I drag race and some guys just go braindead at the start of that engine, like deer in the headlights, you can't fix that. Probably adrenalin rush that doesn't go away. Is this what I'm seeing in Gruden? He'll call 3 passplays on the goal line with empty backfield and then run for it on 4th & 3 on their 45yd yard line. That is not normal decision making.
IF we finish up 3-1 or 4-0, there's no 'debate' - Gruden's a lock ...
anyone with even a little bit of NFL 'sense' can see that this franchise is headed in the right direction since Scot came in and following the absolute disaster that was this franchise in 2014 with little to no chance of having anything looking like a decent product on the field for possibly 4-5 years in order to dispose of the trash that made up most of our roster
the coach we have should be allowed to stay if only to enable a little bit of continuity to continue as Scot continues to make this franchise better through adding the BPA to the roster and not succumbing to the temptations that so many loser franchises follow
the NFL can be a really stupid place to work when it comes down to wins and losses and not to what is best for this franchise
the idiot owner has not been heard from in quite a while ...
Agreed. Whatever Grudens' and Barrys' faults are I think they've earned the right to stay, now is the time for them to mature and maybe we'll really have something for the long term. We just need some 'adjustments' not replacements.
my points is that the win loss record should not determine what we do going forward - I'd like to give all of the top guys here another season and see what they can do with some better players - we have not really given the guys we have a fair shake and here we are in December with a realistic shot at a playoff
I hope that Scot brings back Jay, Sean, Joe and Ben for another shot, even if we finish up badly
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Irn-Bru wrote:I'm not concerned by this per se. Even good coaches need to light a fire under the team's ass every once in a while.
A good coach will put the players in position to succeed but they can't be on the field with them. At a certain point it's on the players to do their part.
I don't have to sell my soul,
He's already in me,
I don't need to sell my soul,
He's already in me.
I wanna be adored
I wanna be adored.
