Should the Skins re-sign Cousins....?

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

What number(s) do think would get Kirk Cousins to sign by July 15 ??

None. He's not signing a deal this season.

[riggofan]

Luck's new contract is in...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ough-2021/

Will be interesting to see.

[riggofan]

Dan Graziano Verified account
‏@DanGrazianoESPN

NFL people have been anticipating Luck deal as a market-altering contract to elevate top end of QB market for first time in a while.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Dan Graziano Verified account
‏@DanGrazianoESPN

NFL people have been anticipating Luck deal as a market-altering contract to elevate top end of QB market for first time in a while.

I agree. It altered the market for top end quarterbacks. Cousins isn't one of those.

[Deadskins]

Dan Graziano Verified account
‏@DanGrazianoESPN

NFL people have been anticipating Luck deal as a market-altering contract to elevate top end of QB market for first time in a while.

I agree. It altered the market for top end quarterbacks. Cousins isn't one of those.

Exactly.

[DarthMonk]

What number(s) do think would get Kirk Cousins to sign by July 15 ??

None. He's not signing a deal this season.

More like a prediction than an answer.

So if we offered him $150 M for 6 years with $100 M guaranteed, he'd say "No thanks, I'm betting on myself." ???

BTW ...

Colts do six-year, $140M mega-deal with Luck

Colts signed QB Andrew Luck to a new six-year, $140 million contract through 2021.

This deal resets the top of the quarterback market and contains a record-setting $87 million guaranteed. Luck was entering the final year of his rookie contract. Despite missing half of last season and struggling for large chunks of the eight games he was in there, Luck deserves every penny. GM Ryan Grigson hasn't done anything to protect Luck during his now-four-year career, failing to get him any offensive linemen and subjecting "the franchise" to unnecessary hits. Now back to full health, Luck should be in for a big bounce-back year as a top-flight QB1. He's now signed through his age-32 season.

Jun 29 - 3:19 PM

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

More like a prediction than an answer.

So if we offered him $150 M for 6 years with $100 M guaranteed, he'd say "No thanks, I'm betting on myself." ???

Let's try to stay within the bounds of reality. Scot McCloughan isn't going to mortgage the future of the organization for a player who really hasn't proven anything that matters in terms of being a top tier quarterback.
Cousins has done some nice things but he hasn't done any of the things top quarterbacks get paid for doing.

1) He hasn't won the games he's not supposed to win, the ones against teams with winning records.
2) He hasn't won playoff games.
3) He hasn't been the best player at his position.
4) He hasn't been the league MVP or even in the discussion.
5) He has a losing career record.
6) He was drafted in the 4th round, not in the 1st round and not #1 overall like Andrew Luck. Or #2 overall like the player he replaced.

Taking all things into account Cousins is not Andrew Luck nor was he ever expected to be. But he also shouldn't be paid like Andrew Luck, who has three 11-5 seasons, three playoff appearances in four seasons, a career 35-20 record, 100+ touchdown passes, and 15,000+ yards in four seasons. He should be paid, as of right now, like the mediocre quarterback he is. If Scot McCloughan offers more than that he's handicapping the team for the next five years and he knows it.

Some people are hung up on the cost of not doing business before July 15th. I'm hung up on the cost of doing business when they shouldn't. If Cousins proves he's not only as good as advertised last season but even better this season given the weapons he now has then he should be paid accordingly. If he craps the bed this year we'll all be glad neither side rushed to a deal. This is the Washington Redskins, home of the "Averaging one starting quarterback a season since 1992 club." I have no issue with waiting. Between the cap going up another $12MM next year and the $8.5MM+ in dead cap coming off the books there's plenty of money to pay Cousins if he earns it.

[DarthMonk]

More like a prediction than an answer.

So if we offered him $150 M for 6 years with $100 M guaranteed, he'd say "No thanks, I'm betting on myself." ???

Let's try to stay within the bounds of reality.

OK. I'm not asking if you think we will sign him by July 15 or not. I'm asking, what is the minimum offer you think we could make by July 15 that would get a "Yes" from Kirk?

You seem to think he has no reason to say yes to $110 M for 6 years and $44 M guaranteed. What do you think would do the trick?

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

More like a prediction than an answer.

So if we offered him $150 M for 6 years with $100 M guaranteed, he'd say "No thanks, I'm betting on myself." ???

Let's try to stay within the bounds of reality.

OK. I'm not asking if you think we will sign him by July 15 or not. I'm asking, what is the minimum offer you think we could make by July 15 that would get a "Yes" from Kirk?

You seem to think he has no reason to say yes to $110 M for 6 years and $44 M guaranteed. What do you think would do the trick?

OK, assuming he would sign any contract I think five years, $100MM with $50MM guaranteed would get it done. That would put him around #6 overall in guaranteed money, including Luck's new contract.

[OldSchool]

I'd like to see the Skins close a deal with Kirk and I think it will happen by 7/15. Kirk is guaranteed just shy of 20M this year so that is in the pot already for 1 year. I think the Skins ought to add another 25 to 30 million for a 45-50M guarantee on 95-105 5 year deal and Kirk ought to take it.

If they don't I'm not worried. I'm confident Kirk will have another big year and then the Skins will be providing him a well deserved Andrew Luck level money contract because the Skins will have a young Drew Brees like starter just like Shanahan projected.

Another poster mentioned Kirk's draft round and record in relief. I think those things are as relevant now as what color tux he wore to his senior prom. Kirk led his team to a division title with a franchise record setting season as a first year starter with this roster and this coach. This is what is relevant. Plus up the guarantee now based on his 1 record setting season as a starter or wait another year and potentially pay 25% more or 25% less depending on how things go in 2016.

Taking either course makes some sense but I guessing the Skins expect Kirk to rack up another big year so they are going to elect to bet on Kirk and do the deal by 7/15.

[DarthMonk]

^^ Dig it.

I am a big believer in the maxim: Big money doesn't change a guy - it makes a guy more of what he already is.

Kirk is a hard worker with a plus head and a plus work ethic and more than adequate athleticism. He has improved weekly, monthly, and yearly. I expect more of the same.

I consider offering him $44 M guaranteed with a greater "effective" guarantee (like $66 M should the next 2 years go well) to be fairly low risk. Even if he bombed out (unlikely) next year the hit (2nd half of guarantee) would only be for what amounts to next year's cap increase and perhaps cutting a guy a year early - which hardly amounts to "setting us back 5 years." On the flip side, if he were to live up to the the first half of the guarantee next year we would have good will and would have saved ourselves that $22 M a few times over.

I am hopeful we sign him to a big but reasonable contract in the next 2 weeks - one that would likely look like a bargain a few years from now.

[riggofan]

I agree. It altered the market for top end quarterbacks. Cousins isn't one of those.

Exactly.

You guys would be 100% right if not for math. Continue to agree with each other though and see if it changes anything.

Your statement is just demonstrably false. Kirk Cousins is a franchise tagged QB. Luck's deal just altered the franchise tag amount for QBs. Therefore, he altered the market for Kirk Cousins.

I look forward Deadskins making some tangential argument against this somehow tying in Tom Brady to argue against numbers.

[riggofan]

1) He hasn't won the games he's not supposed to win, the ones against teams with winning records.
2) He hasn't won playoff games.
3) He hasn't been the best player at his position.
4) He hasn't been the league MVP or even in the discussion.
5) He has a losing career record.

I would be curious to see you look at Matthew Stafford's contract and then apply these statements to him. Any guess at his W-L record? How many playoff games he has won? Best player at his position?

6) He was drafted in the 4th round, not in the 1st round and not #1 overall like Andrew Luck. Or #2 overall like the player he replaced.

Like Josh Norman?

[riggofan]

^^ Dig it.

I am a big believer in the maxim: Big money doesn't change a guy - it makes a guy more of what he already is.

Kirk is a hard worker with a plus head and a plus work ethic and more than adequate athleticism. He has improved weekly, monthly, and yearly. I expect more of the same.

I'm with you guys, and I was a longtime Kirk skeptic. For me, its not even about what we saw him do on the field last year. As he's become a more public person now, its pretty obvious what a quality guy he is. One thing I've learned personally as both an employer and a coach is that that's the type of person worth gambling on and investing in. Stabilize that position finally and focus on building the team around him.

We'll see. I trust Scot McCloughan immensely, so I'm not really arguing that the team SHOULD get a deal done in July. I just hope that the team has seen enough in him that they WANT to get a deal done now. A deal now is always going to be better financially for the team than a long term deal done next year.

Btw I really want to see this thread hit 40 pages. Epic.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

I would be curious to see you look at Matthew Stafford's contract and then apply these statements to him. Any guess at his W-L record? How many playoff games he has won? Best player at his position?

OK, so the Lions were right to pay Stafford a 3 year, $53,000,000 contract, a $27,500,000 signing bonus, $41,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $17,666,667, with a 2016 cap hit of $22,500,000 for 42-51 and 0-2 in the playoffs?

I'm really not sure where you're going with that.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Like Josh Norman?

Josh Norman was just voted the #1 cornerback in the league by his peers. He's a Pro Bowler and an All Pro. Let me know when that happens for Kirk Cousins. Then I'll agree he should be paid like one.

[riggofan]

I would be curious to see you look at Matthew Stafford's contract and then apply these statements to him. Any guess at his W-L record? How many playoff games he has won? Best player at his position?

OK, so the Lions were right to pay Stafford a 3 year, $53,000,000 contract, a $27,500,000 signing bonus, $41,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $17,666,667, with a 2016 cap hit of $22,500,000 for 42-51 and 0-2 in the playoffs?

I'm really not sure where you're going with that.

Here's where I'm going with that:

He signed that deal three years ago when it was considered a lucrative contract. However he apparently got that deal without doing "any of the things top quarterbacks get paid for doing" like you described.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... s/2502647/

The numbers you quoted for Stafford are key too. If you look at how his contract was described in 2013 that was a big deal. It was described as his "second big contract". In 2016 though, his annual salary that you quoted looks very reasonable for the position. I think freaking Osweiler is getting paid more than that per year, isn't he?

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Make of this what you will.

“I just think it’s going to be too difficult to do, but it would be great for Washington and for Kirk Cousins for me to be proven wrong,” Schefter told ESPN 980’s Kevin Sheehan and Chris ey on Wednesday. “But again, as we’ve talked about, for a multitude of reasons, how do you establish his value when I think there would be teams willing to pay him if he were on the open market today more than Washington feels like it needs to pay him, and if he were to hit the free agent market this offseason, I think a team like the Cleveland Browns would’ve given him $20 million a year, maybe more.”

ey wondered aloud why Schefter considered it so unlikely that Cousins and the Redskins would agree on an extension and suggested a hypothetical $93 million offer with a fifth-year option and $47 million guaranteed. Citing the deal that free agent quarterback Brock Osweiler signed with the Texans this offseason, Schefter replied that the guaranteed money would have to be closer to $60 million for Cousins to consider not playing this season on the franchise tag.

“Here’s the whole thing, ” Schefter said, speaking from Cousins’s perspective. “He’s already this year going to make $19-$20 million, which is more money than he’s ever made, more money than he’s seen, and by making that money, he’s just about set. He also has a chance, if he comes in and plays well this year — again, you don’t want to tag me this year, no problem — there will be a team like the Houston Texans out there that’s willing to pay me like they did Brock Osweiler: four years, $76 million, $38 million guaranteed. I just made the [$20 million guaranteed]. That gives me $58 million guaranteed over the course of that contract. I’m going to bet on myself because I’ve never had a chance to lead this team. I’ve never had the chance to be the guy. I’ve never had the chance to have the belief of everybody around me and now I’m going to step in, in my third year in Jay Gruden’s system with the weapons I have surrounding me, and I’m going to play pretty well, I’m going to play better than Brock Osweiler did. And so now, next offseason, when the New York Jets and the Cleveland Browns and the Arizona Cardinals need a quarterback, they’re going to pay me well north of [what the Texans paid Osweiler]. They’re going to pay me [four years, $85 million, $45 million guaranteed or $50 million guaranteed]. If he thinks — and he does — he’s going to have a good season this year, you’re not taking the money that you’re talking about, Chris.”

[riggofan]

Like Josh Norman?

Josh Norman was just voted the #1 cornerback in the league by his peers. He's a Pro Bowler and an All Pro. Let me know when that happens for Kirk Cousins. Then I'll agree he should be paid like one.

Josh Norman has been selected to one Pro Bowl while playing on the 6th ranked TEAM defense in the league. I hope Scot McCloughan took a little more than that into consideration when he chose to pay him.

[riggofan]

Make of this what you will.

I've already made of it, and I agree with Schefter. Our pussy footing around on Cousins is going to bite us in the arse.

[SkinsJock]

Cousins is going to get offered a really good long term deal that I hope he turns down

This is a great opportunity for him - no RG3 and no excuse not to have a great offensive season

hopefully he grabs the opportunity to prove that he's worth elite QB money and does not take the long term deal

[riggofan]

Cousins is going to get offered a really good long term deal that I hope he turns down

This is a great opportunity for him - no RG3 and no excuse not to have a great offensive season

hopefully he grabs the opportunity to prove that he's worth elite QB money and does not take the long term deal

Oh my god man. Do you just copy and paste this comment every three days? I'm beginning to think you are actually a bot on the Internet.

[riggofan]

Could have done a deal months ago for $18m/yr.

A $20 million yearly average is now the floor for a Cousins deal

The floor keeps getting higher for Kirk Cousins.

In March, when Brock Osweiler jumped from the Broncos to the Texans for a contract that averages $18 million per year, that was generally accepted to be a floor for a Kirk Cousins deal. Osweiler had just seven NFL starts under his belt and his play was just OK. Cousins was coming off of a very good, 16-start season. If Osweiler was worth $18 million per season then Cousins was worth at least that much.

Yesterday the floor shifted.

Andrew Luck signed an extension is worth about $25 million per year. Luck was the No. 1 pick in the 2012 draft, he has three Pro Bowls on his resume and his teams have been to the playoffs three times and have won three games. He clearly is a cut above Cousins, who has one season as a starter and the Redskins have an 0-1 mark in the playoffs with him at quarterback.

But that doesn’t mean that Luck’s big payday won’t affect Cousins. As the saying goes, a rising tide lifts all boats. Luck’s deal is a rip tide that will raise the salaries of all competent quarterbacks who are fortunate enough to become free agents.

http://realredskins.com/2016/06/30/a-20 ... sins-deal/

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

I would be curious to see you look at Matthew Stafford's contract and then apply these statements to him. Any guess at his W-L record? How many playoff games he has won? Best player at his position?

OK, so the Lions were right to pay Stafford a 3 year, $53,000,000 contract, a $27,500,000 signing bonus, $41,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $17,666,667, with a 2016 cap hit of $22,500,000 for 42-51 and 0-2 in the playoffs?

I'm really not sure where you're going with that.

Here's where I'm going with that:

He signed that deal three years ago when it was considered a lucrative contract. However he apparently got that deal without doing "any of the things top quarterbacks get paid for doing" like you described.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... s/2502647/

The numbers you quoted for Stafford are key too. If you look at how his contract was described in 2013 that was a big deal. It was described as his "second big contract". In 2016 though, his annual salary that you quoted looks very reasonable for the position. I think freaking Osweiler is getting paid more than that per year, isn't he?

OK, but you're comparing another #1 overall pick to Kirk Cousins. Teams have a lot more invested in #1 picks, financially and otherwise, than they do in 4th round draft picks. Stafford was 25 at the time of that contract and he still had Calvin Johnson making him look good. Or as good as he's ever looked. Stafford also had four full seasons starting under his belt before that contract extension and has 2011, where he threw for over 5,000 yards and 41 TDs. He threw for just under 5,000 yards the following season when the team went 4-12. And he's been well over 4,000 yards each of the last five seasons. He's also gone 25-19 the last three seasons.

Cousins has started 25 games in his career and is 11-14. The best he has ever done, and the only winning season he has ever had, regardless of number of games played, was last season's barely winning 9-7.

Stafford threw for more yards and more touchdowns than Cousins last season.

If Matthew Stafford is your barometer, Kirk Cousins is no Matthew Stafford.

Cousins is gambling on himself and he could lose but he's already set for life now with that $19.3MM pay increase this year.

Assuming no contract gets done before July 15th, if Cousins puts up the kind of numbers good quarterbacks post annually then he should be paid like a good quarterback.

To get into the franchise quarterback conversation Cousins has to post 400 completions on 600 attempts with 4,500 yards passing, 35 TDs, a passer rating over 100, a net yards per attempt over 7.0, an interception rate of 1.5%, and, most importantly, he has to win games. If he wants to be a lock for that huge contract he has to win playoff games.

I hope Scot McCloughan is as smart as we were led to believe because, if not, he will grossly overpay Cousins just to get a deal done.

One thing I disagree with is the notion that just because another team would pay Cousins a fortune in free agency means the Redskins should pay Cousins a fortune based upon his extremely limited track record.

The entire division will be better this season. If he wins it again you can count me in as thinking he should get paid.

But I'm expecting him to come back to reality this season and for other teams to adjust to the short passing game that was so effective last season. Can he adjust? We will see. But unless or until we know the answer to that he should not be paid like the franchise savior.

It's McCloughan's job if he screws this one up and he knows it.

Also, there's enough about this team that drives people to drink without giving him any incentive.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Oh my god man. Do you just copy and paste this comment every three days? I'm beginning to think you are actually a bot on the Internet.

We may not agree on Cousins but we agree the site needs a mute feature.