If not Gruden then who...if not Cousins then who?

[mastdark81]

He put doubt in the head of the players and criticized Rg like no other last year.

No, he put a QB in his place for criticizing teammates. The teammates were done with Griffin. The reason why this team is playing better (well largely in part thanks to SM) is that they saw their head coach make the correct move at quarterback.

Wasn't the last time a player criticized teammates but it was a precedent in a head coach nailing his own player that type of way in the media! The team isnt playing better because they got rid of starting RG3 they are playing better b/c special teams, and defense better, improvement of Kirk, and weaker division.

We don't know that RG3 or Colt couldn't have led us to the same or better record. The way Kirk Cousin is playing right now you would doubt that RG3 could perform with that consistency in Jay's offense but heeeey I doubted Kirk could too. You never know. Bottomline the D isn't throwing up in the redzone and special teams isn't costing us games like last year.

Redskins could be 3-13 next year. As fans thats been the model for some type of reason playoffs, followed by meltdown BEFORE RG3. But for now lets win it all! #httr

[Chris Luva Luva]

Wasn't the last time a player criticized teammates but it was a precedent in a head coach nailing his own player that type of way in the media!

I dont like what Jay did, but RGIII deserved every bit of it.

We don't know that RG3 or Colt couldn't have led us to the same or better record.

But in your previous sentence you stated....

The team is playing better because they got rid of starting RG3

Redskins could be 3-13 next year. As fans thats been the model for some type of reason playoffs, followed by meltdown BEFORE RG3. But for now lets win it all! #httr

No. That's not going to happen. I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise, you've been beat down as a fan. So it's normal for you to feel that way. I on the other hand recognize that what's happening this year is different than in years past. We've achieved sustainable growth for the first time since I've been a fan.

[mastdark81]

Wasn't the last time a player criticized teammates but it was a precedent in a head coach nailing his own player that type of way in the media!

I dont like what Jay did, but RGIII deserved every bit of it.

We don't know that RG3 or Colt couldn't have led us to the same or better record.

But in your previous sentance you stated....

The team is playing better because they got rid of starting RG3

Redskins could be 3-13 next year. As fans thats been the model for some type of reason playoffs, followed by meltdown BEFORE RG3. But for now lets win it all! #httr

No. That's not going to happen. I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise, you've been beat down as a fan. So it's normal for you to feel that way. I on the other hand recognize that what's happening this year is different than in years past. We've achieved sustainable growth for the first time since I've been a fan.

Of course he deserved it but behind closed doors. Yeah my bad it was a typo I meant his benching "isn't" the reason they are improved. We haven't seen him this year to be factual.

LOL yeah you not going to convince me that it COULDN'T happen. I hope it don't happen and didn't think it would happen after 2012 but it did. The NFL is a straaaaange league. Any given Sunday. I'm sure the Ravens/Colts didn't think they would be a do do stain either this year. The key is the QB. You get you a franchise QB and you are more sustainable. If that boy Kirk can do what he have done the last 8 games then we should be good.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Of course he deserved it but behind closed doors.

I think he got it behind closed doors too.

Yeah my bad it was a typo I meant his benching "isn't" the reason they are improved. We haven't seen him this year to be factual.

We didn't need to, he got benched twice last year in this offense. He looked horrible in the preseason and got himself concussed against Detroit. What more did you need to see? How many more times did you need to see him fail? He can't do it bruh, not in this style of offense. I sincerely wanted things to work out but RGIII wasn't ready.

I'm sure the Ravens/Colts didn't think they would be a do do stain either this year.

You're looking at that/this from the wrong perspective. The Ravens and Colts have been relevant for over a decade. One down year doesn't mean jack sh*t in the grand scheme. The Ravens had down years back in 2005, but they bounced back... Why? Ozzie Newsome, one of the best GM's in the game. Who do we now have? Scot McCloughan one of the best GM's in the game. A GM who has recently built 1 SB contending team and 1 SB winning team utilizing the same blueprint that's began implementing here.

The key is the QB. You get you a franchise QB and you are more sustainable. If that boy Kirk can do what he have done the last 8 games then we should be good.

Nothing about his success has shown that it's not sustainable. Most fans knew that RGIII was going to have to mature his game. He didn't and he couldn't. He refused to protect himself and then he refused to ween himself into a more well-rounded QB, instead forcing himself into it coming off a devastating injury. The reports from multiple sources including our HC that he wasn't putting in the work mentally. Hell, RGIII messed up and even admitted to it himself.

[Deadskins]

he got benched twice last year in this offense.

No, he didn't. He got injured, returned, got benched, then finished the season as the starter after McCoy got injured.

I don't want RGIII to start over Kirk, but this revisionist history is starting to get to me. Before this year, Kirk had one win as a starter (the Cleveland game in 2012).

[Chris Luva Luva]

he got benched twice last year in this offense.

No, he didn't.

Actually, he did.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/2/21/8081091/the-redskins-quarterback-carousel-nfl-football

Benched twice. 1 season. He's garbage. Now we can argue semantics over what a "benching" is. The point is that he was removed from the playing field while healthy, twice because he was NOT the best option for the team to succeed.

[SkinsJock]

if not Gruden - I'm not sure that the FO wants to go through that and IMO Jay Gruden has recently started to look like he has a clue - he did not have a great start this season PLUS the franchise could certainly do with another season like the last

if not Cousins - I'm certain about this - Kirk Cousins is in B&G next season because he wants to be here and we badly want him to be here

Kirk Cousins is not a Joe Flacco, he will want the franchise to be financially able to add the players they need and he needs as well

[Chris Luva Luva]

if not Gruden - I'm not sure that the FO wants to go through that and IMO Jay Gruden has recently started to look like he has a clue - he did not have a great start this season PLUS the franchise could certainly do with another season like the last

if not Cousins - I'm certain about this - Kirk Cousins is in B&G next season because he wants to be here and we badly want him to be here

Kirk Cousins is not a Joe Flacco, he will want the franchise to be financially able to add the players they need and he needs as well

1. I was disappointed in Gruden due to a lack of perceived growth offensively from my perspective. He needs to be here another year. I wasn't wrong but I was impatient.

2. Cousins will want to be here because he won't want to risk his success. This offense hasn't even dedicated an off season of tailoring itself to him. He'll be rewarded but he'll be looking for a future contract to truly be lucrative.

3. Flacco gets a lot of heat needlessly imo. The Ravens have failed to keep an OC for more than 1 year at a time. That lack of inconsistently has to be detrimental to him, yet her perseveres. Additionally Ozzie has proven that his eye for talent isn't as sharp on the offensive side of the ball.

[SkinsJock]

thanks for the link Chris ....

As creative as imaginations can be, no one imagined the 2014 playing out the way it did for the Washington Redskins. Jay Gruden was recruited to Washington for the sole purpose of taking Robert Griffin III to the next level......or so we thought. I can't imagine a scenario where Jay Gruden met with Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder and the two didn't harp on Robert Griffin III's development being priority number one. Yet after one full season with the team, the only consistency was inconsistency.

I understand that Griffin's inability to do what was needed to become an NFL QB and possibly not even try very hard must have really made Gruden very frustrated but he also bears some of the blame for this, because he did not help RG3 which is primarily why he got the job


It's all over now because Kirk Cousins became a much better QB than anyone with any sense could have thought and Kirk Cousins has put both he and Gruden in a situation where I cannot see both of them not being here for another season

I would be very surprised if we did not see an improved Cousins and a much improved Gruden as HC next season

[OldSchool]

To me it is obvious. The Skins finally found a franchise QB in Cousins and McCoy is a good fit for the backup spot if he is content. Sign Cousins to a long term franchise QB deal and extend McCoy also if he wants to stay with the team and focus on improving the rest of the team.

As for Robert that chapter is finally closed. We got a first round pick this past draft the deal with the Rams is behind us and we all wish Robert will with his next team or venture, I hope he saved his money is fancially secure feels free to start another type of career if the NFL doesn't come knocking for him.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I understand that Griffin's inability to do what was needed to become an NFL QB and possibly not even try very hard must have really made Gruden very frustrated but he also bears some of the blame for this, because he did not help RG3 which is primarily why he got the job

I think A LOT of factors came into play...

- RGIII wasn't used to being "the guy". he largely came out of nowhere and landed in the largest media market
- he was coddled by ownership
- his study/practice habits were catered to his skillset. for who/what he needed to become, it takes more film study, practice reps. it took him 3 years to get the film study thing down (not unheard of for young players) but that was exacerabated by the fact that he was OFT INJURED. So not only was he studying wrong, he couldn't even practice. For the reasons listed here, Jay could only do so much with him.
- RGIII didn't to or could no longer run the one system he was adept at running.
- RGIII lacked pocket presence, you cannot be taught that or even learn it. You have it or u don't.
- RGIII's lack of humility and propensity to shift blame to those around him rubbed the entire lockerroom wrong. ey has stated on numerous occassions that RGIII's benching had a lot to do with Gruden losing the team. The players didn't want him.
- I think as fans we lose sight of the fact that there are 52 other men on that active squad that have careers, goals and aspirations. We were essentially putting their careers on hold for RGIII

It's all over now because Kirk Cousins became a much better QB than anyone with any sense could have thought and Kirk Cousins has put both he and Gruden in a situation where I cannot see both of them not being here for another season

I would be very surprised if we did not see an improved Cousins and a much improved Gruden as HC next season

We have never seen Cousins have an offseason dedicated to him where he gets all the reps with the first time. We haven't seen the offense tailored to him. All of this years prep was scrapped in week 3 of the preseason when they made the switch.

I think what we'll see next year, is a faster start to the season.

[Deadskins]

he got benched twice last year in this offense.

No, he didn't.

Actually, he did.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/2/21/8081091/the-redskins-quarterback-carousel-nfl-football

Benched twice. 1 season. He's garbage. Now we can argue semantics over what a "benching" is. The point is that he was removed from the playing field while healthy, twice because he was NOT the best option for the team to succeed.

Please! That's the equivalent of a substitute coming on for a play or two while the trainers retape the starter's ankle, and saying the sub got benched when the starter returns. But I thought the point was that Cousins was the better option for the team to succeed, so your argument is moot anyway, isn't it? It's also a fact that RGIII won more games than Cousins, as the starter, every season (including 2014) until this year when he hasn't started, so your argument about being the best option for the team to succeed doesn't hold water either. Look, I agree that Cousins has played especially well at the end of this season, and he has showed great development this year. I also want him to be the Redskins QB for many years to come. I just don't agree that Bob is "garbage," or that he can't learn to play the NFL style of QB, given time and the right coach.

[riggofan]

Actually, he did.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/2/21/8081091/the-redskins-quarterback-carousel-nfl-football

Benched twice. 1 season. He's garbage. Now we can argue semantics over what a "benching" is. The point is that he was removed from the playing field while healthy, twice because he was NOT the best option for the team to succeed.

lol. We've never let facts get in the way of some strong opinions around here.

Not going to bother trying to argue or change anyone's minds on this. Seems there are still a couple of people here who are always going to feel that Griffin was wronged in some way by Gruden. For me personally, the head coach put his job and reputation on the line and proved that he made the right call. Winning is all that matters.

I don't have an ounce of dislike for Griffin. Wish him nothing but the best.

I still have to shake my head though over the complaints. Gruden set Griffin up by not calling the right plays for him? Come on. There is a base level of expectations for an NFL quarterback. At the very least you should be able to drop back, stand in the pocket for 3-5 seconds and make a pass. If it was John Beck playing like that v. Detroit in the preseason, I highly doubt that anyone would be on here blaming Gruden for his piss poor performance.

[mastdark81]

To Chris Luva Luva

Who said I thought he can succeed in this offense? Hell I didn't even think Kirk could succeed with what we was doing early in the season. I'm just saying we havent seen him in 2015 to say one way or the other, those are facts. If you want to go with 13 passes in preseason then that's INSANE B/C Kirk's first 13 passes in preseason which included an interception was horrible too. He would never work with Jay and may not work nowhere else and that is my own opinion.

Kirk is a 8-7 qb and taking psychological classes lol...don't bet the farm homie. I've seen it happen often throughout the years, especially when they get paid!! Seen it in RG, seen it in Brad Johnson, seen it in Gus Frerotte after the deal. 1 year wonders. Nothing is guaranteed. But at the end of the day there is hope, we seem to moving in the right direction and that's all you can ask for.

[riggofan]

Brad Johnson one year wonder???

[mastdark81]

Brad Johnson one year wonder???

with the Redskins yes. His 2nd year was horrible.

[OldSchool]

I Was Wrong About Cousins
Postby OldSchool » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:35 pm

He proved his critics right and me wrong this year and last year. I've posted about what he does well in the past but for whatever reason or reasons Kirk Cousins generates too many interceptions to play well in the NFL. Given his inability to curb the problem I don't think he can be more than a backup in the league. He has no one but himself to blame the Skins gave him every chance.

I don't think Griffin will become an effective quarterback without running but the Skins should use their draft picks on other needs and give Griffin at least another year. Perhaps even if he doesn't develop into a quality starter he can be an adequate starter for a couple more years while they address many other needs on the roster.

Thanks for posting this I remember being so frustrated with Cousins at the time because I saw so the potential he realized this seaon but self destructed by becoming reckless with the ball at other times. From what we read when demoted to 3rd string he spent his time studying video of the success QBs in the league and private workouts. That dedication helped him prepare to be much more effective this season. It makes me wonder just how good he will get with another off season and a full preason receiving the starter reps. I think we have a decade of fun ahead with Cousins!

[StorminMormon86]

I'm not saying Gruden doesn't like Griffin, or has any kind of vendetta against him. He just prefers to work with Cousins, and did what he needed to do to get the Danny to go along with his decision. By now, I'm sure the Danny likes Cousins just fine, especially after the whole "You like that!" thing blew up into such an NFL meme.

Then how exactly did Gruden sabotage Griffin? At what point are we as a fan base going to recognize that Griffin didn't put in the work to get better, or simply just doesn't have it?

[mastdark81]

I Was Wrong About Cousins
Postby OldSchool » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:35 pm

He proved his critics right and me wrong this year and last year. I've posted about what he does well in the past but for whatever reason or reasons Kirk Cousins generates too many interceptions to play well in the NFL. Given his inability to curb the problem I don't think he can be more than a backup in the league. He has no one but himself to blame the Skins gave him every chance.

I don't think Griffin will become an effective quarterback without running but the Skins should use their draft picks on other needs and give Griffin at least another year. Perhaps even if he doesn't develop into a quality starter he can be an adequate starter for a couple more years while they address many other needs on the roster.

[/quote]

Thanks for posting this I remember being so frustrated with Cousins at that time because I saw so much potential but became utterly careless with the ball at other times. From what we read when demoted to 3rd string he spent his time studying video of the success QBs in the league and private workouts. That dedication helped him prepare to be much more effective this season. It makes me wonder just how good he will get with another off season and a full preason receiving the starter reps![/quote]

Shoot right now he's playing so good it would be crazy to see how he would be if he improves! He's what 1st in pass percentage, targeting his WRs more, great in the redzone, only thing I would like for him to do is take more command in the huddle...get that confidence to say to hell with McVay/Gruden if the headsets go out or something abnormal happens. Essentially be less robotic.

[riggofan]

Brad Johnson one year wonder???

with the Redskins yes. His 2nd year was horrible.

Bit of a stretch. Guy had a 14 year career and won a Super Bowl. Even in that "horrible" year here he was better than most of the donks who came after him.

[mastdark81]

Brad Johnson one year wonder???

with the Redskins yes. His 2nd year was horrible.

Bit of a stretch. Guy had a 14 year career and won a Super Bowl. Even in that "horrible" year here he was better than most of the donks who came after him.

I said with REDSKINS! He was a success his first year and the second year he was a bust and some thought his career was done after that year with us when Jeff George took his place for a few games. Outside of with us YES he had a good career. I liked him even with the Vikings.

[OldSchool]

Then how exactly did Gruden sabotage Griffin? At what point are we as a fan base going to recognize that Griffin didn't put in the work to get better, or simply just doesn't have it?

Griffin failed despite two coaching regimes trying to help him succeed. The failure is Griffin's not Gruden or Shanahan's. Maybe Griffin will find a way to be successful with another team or maybe he doesn't have sufficient spatial intelligence. It might be Griffin didn't work hard enough but it also may be true it just isn't within him to succeed.

[SkinsJock]

Jay Gruden at one time must have wondered what the hell he had done to deserve 2 QBs that did not look like they would amount to anything

we now have 2 QBs that could both be starting QBs in the NFL next season

[mastdark81]

Then how exactly did Gruden sabotage Griffin? At what point are we as a fan base going to recognize that Griffin didn't put in the work to get better, or simply just doesn't have it?

Griffin failed despite two coaching regimes trying to help him succeed. The failure is Griffin's not Gruden or Shanahan's. Maybe Griffin will find a way to be successful with another team or maybe he doesn't have sufficient spatial intelligence. It might be Griffin didn't work hard enough but it also may be true it just isn't within him to succeed.

People forget...Griffin failed when HE GOT INJURED. Nobody was complaining prior to that vicious acl/mcl injury. As far as his intelligence in the pocket...it was expected because he did not have the reps at the position going back to a non traditional college offense he was in that he compared to Cousins, Tannehill, Wilson, Luck of that same QB 2012 class who were in pro offenses.

[Deadskins]

I'm not saying Gruden doesn't like Griffin, or has any kind of vendetta against him. He just prefers to work with Cousins, and did what he needed to do to get the Danny to go along with his decision. By now, I'm sure the Danny likes Cousins just fine, especially after the whole "You like that!" thing blew up into such an NFL meme.

Then how exactly did Gruden sabotage Griffin? At what point are we as a fan base going to recognize that Griffin didn't put in the work to get better, or simply just doesn't have it?

He sabotaged him by calling him out in public last season. He sabotaged him by not giving him the hands on attention that he did with Kirk. He sabotaged him by calling plays in the preseason that called for him to make deep drops on slowly developing plays when he knew the line wasn't up to providing that kind of protection at that point. You didn't notice that when Cousins came in, we suddenly switched to roll outs, and play action?

Look, I don't know how many times I have to say this. I'm not at all suggesting that RGIII is the better QB, or that he should be starting, or even suiting up as the backup. I'm not saying he didn't hurt himself by not being patient in coming back from injuries, or being able to protect himself when he was playing. I'm not saying he put in the mental work that Kirk obviously has to improve his game. I'm not even saying that RGIII should ever play another game in the NFL. I'm just stating the facts as I see them. You don't have to agree with me, it's just my opinion.