Thanks for Champ Ladies...

[VRIEL1]

Fella's, Fella's stop argueing..please..let Elway07 have his last say...ok. We know the truth...in all do time so will he. Yes, Champ...WAS a shut down corner...atleast his first few seasons he was. Then teams figured out how to get balls to the men he was covering. I think I lost my voice every week yelling at the T.V. because someone beat him. So what have we learned....one man does not make a team as "Elway07" would have you belive.
Elway07....best wishes!

[SkinFan 0-16 or 16-0]

Last year, Smoot was the best cover corner on the Skins' roster.

The Skins had to trade Champ because he didn't want to play for them. Getting a top 5 RB at the beginning of his career in return for a player they couldn't sign is pretty darn good.

Would Gibbs prefer to have a RB like Stephen Davis (thank you Spurrier) rather than Portis? Maybe. Have we seen 5% of how Gibbs will use Portis this season yet? No. From training camp visits, Portis will be highly utilized as a receiver, which we haven't seen at all during the pre-season games.

And you make it sound like the counter-trey is the only running play Gibbs has. You're a joke if you think that. Gibbs revolutionized the running game in the '80s. His schemes are still used by St.Louis, KC, and Minnesota -- 3 of the most powerful offenses in the game right now. Portis will thrive.

Don't forget Carolina, they run almost the exact same offense as us, because our former Offensive Coordinator (Dan Henning) is their current one.

[SkinFan 0-16 or 16-0]

Id like to let hi, have his say... BUT I can't do that. Its that competitiveness in me. That Burgandy and Gold in mu blood.

[daddywatson]

I was going to weigh in on this elway dude, but you... my brothers and sisters.... have done just a way fine job of verbally pointing out the senseless, pointless and basically quadriplegic posts he's managed drum up from some fantasy land he's apparently invented for himself. KUDOS TO YOU ALL!!!

[Elway07]

..well, i guess we'll see who got the best end of the trade in the next couple years...BUT i guarantee you that there are more skins fans that are happy with trade than bronco fans...remember we got shawn springs and portis for less $$$$ than you guys are paying chump...i say that gives the early edge..

1) Less money? Who cares about the comparative amounts in regards to one another in this discussion. Value goes to Denver since Bailey will most likely be on the field all season long, brings what I have already explained to the defense, and we got your second round pick (= Tatum Bell—who by the way is faster than Clinton Portis). But you are right, it will take time the first team to win the super bowl with their respective players wins. However that is not going to stop me from checking in here to wallow in the “effects” of a disappointing Portis showing as he sits on IR at week 6.

...Now take those 18 carries and put them with Griffin's 3.7 yards a carry. And you get just barley over 1000. Which today mans nothing...
;and

How can you say anything about undersized backs when you have the smallest starting running back in the league? He pulled he trigger because our 2nd round pick was also involved.

2)First off, you for got to take my first points in account. Clinton Portis ran 5.5 and 1500 in Denver. The year before that rookie Mike Anderson ran for 1582 and broke the rookie rushing record, and the year before Anderson, Orlandis Gary ran for 1300, and the year before Gary Terrell Davis ran for 2000… Griffin ran for almost 5 thousand yards in under 4 years at Oklahoma—which is a Big 12 conference school. For those of youse eastcoasters, the Big 12 is the best-run stopping conference in the college football. Last year, he reported to camp as a rookie and broke his ankle in the first week. The only full game that he was able to play was the last game of the season against the Colts at Indy. Did you see that game? Where was Portis? As usually he had sand in his cl*tty. By the way, last year when Portis was hurt, Denver went 3-0, and when Portis played while Jake Plummer was injured Denver went 1-5. Hope you want someone to be a garnish, and not someone to carry your team. And we also got OK State Tatum Bell in the trade as well, who once again was the fast back in the draft, thus faster than Portis.

3) Thank you very much Miss Lippy!!!

PS. I think your monitor is a nazi, I maybe getting kicked out of your little Nazi Germany here, because of my desenting opinions. If that happens, please know that the greatest QB to ever grace an NFL football field will be here around week 6 to laugh at your anti-Portis postings.

[Elway07]

Wow that posting did not turn out like I wanted to. Well, march on!!

[1niksder]

Value goes to Denver since Bailey will most likely be on the field all season long

how much value do you get after you realize that your new shut down corner needs Saftey help on most passing plays Champ(I'll never call him Chump) has no reason to play hurt he's broken the bank so whatcha gonna do when all that money is on the sidelines watching?

However that is not going to stop me from checking in here to wallow in the “effects” of a disappointing Portis showing as he sits on IR at week 6.

Portis more than likely will play the whole season ..a statement I wounldn't make about Champ even if he were still here.. so as Gambit would say "Stop Hatin"

Clinton Portis ran 5.5 and 1500 in Denver. The year before that rookie Mike Anderson ran for 1582 and broke the rookie rushing record,and the year before Anderson, Orlandis Gary ran for 1300

Just the facts please....Portis two year total =3099 yards
2002...1508 and 2003...1591
Mike Anderson only had 1487 yards his rookie year and 2808 in 4 years
your boy Orlandis Gary ran for 1159 yards his rookie year and in 4 years a whopping 1998 yards
check your sources or goto here http://www.nfl.com/players/playerindex/POS_RB
like I did

[Elway07]

Wow, you have called me out on the carpet, and I feel a little embarrassed—Are you kidding me?
First off, 1487--that was a typo, secondly, genius, Anderson was the starting tailback for 1 season--which goes to tell you that his rookie season is very close to Portis’ rookie season (20 something yards).

Olandis Gary—Also 1 season, he rushed for 1300 yards, however that may be playoff included as well. I’m not for certain there, so I apologies for that. However after that season, he was traded to the Lions, so his career production is a reflection of Detroit for 2-3 years, and Denver for only 1. Moreover, he was the running back for only one season.

So, with that in context, we are actually talking about a few yards here and there, and Portis’s production when comparing it to the rest of the Denver Bronco running backs is not all that great.

[oafusp]

Elwood, be glad that the AFC West has horrible/fragile WR's (Reche Caldwell?, Johnnie Morton?, Jerry Porter?). Shanny spent all that money for a CB for a division that is not that good at WR. Shanny could have used Champ when Rice and Brown were in their prime...but what gives now?

I was a fan of Champ, urr, I mean Chump. Even when talented WR's burned him. And even when "medium talented" receivers burned him. (Amani Toomer and Rocket Ismail OWN Chump Bailey).

Look at it this way, you got Tatum Bell too. Hopefully he pans out in a couple years and that will cover up the disapointment in Champ. Meanwhile, we have Portis now, and Gibbs didn't have time to wait for a 2nd round RB to develop.

You are lucky we didn't pull a Jets on you and take half your roster.

Go stroke your Bronco

[Elway07]

LMAO! You cannot sit a d-back on an island and expect him to cover a receiver without a pass rush. Shutdown corners are enablers to great defenses because they not only lock down a receiver but also expands the defensive playbook and creates options to freeing up others in order to stuff the run, and/or rush the QB. You have to put pressure on the QB or you are right, a shutdown corner (or Bailey as you say) is worthless. I am not sure what kind of coverages the Deadpins used with Bailey, but they obviously did not mimic successful teams who had corners of his caliber. This is how Denver uses his talents: first you have to rush the QB with either a safety blitz or linebacker blitz; and then you place Bailey on the opponent’s best receiver. While John Lynch, or Kennoy Kennedy, is placed either in or just outside of the box, to key off of the QB. Once it is determined to be a pass, he [Lynch] is cheated over in to zone coverages, and latches on to the no. 2 or/and 3 receiver. This creates complicated, disguise that are ment to confuse the QB. While the QB is being blitzed, and 1/3 of his field essentially taken away, more sacks and/or more interceptions will be created. You can’t tell me that Bailey is this talent less hack. When you leave any d-back on an island with out a scheme or a pass rush, no corner is going to cover for that long. Face it your defensive scheme was pathetic, and a waste of a great, and highly, athletic d-back.

[skins75]

How would you know how Shanny (as you call him) uses a shutdown corner when he never had one. So your points have absolutely no validation. So lets just wait a couple of months before we compare who got the better end of the deal. The bottom line is Bailey didnt want to be here. So essentially we could have tagged him and kept him this year and then get nothing for him next. Just go away and learn your facts before you start a thread on a Redskins board.

[oafusp]

LMAO! You cannot sit a d-back on an island and expect him to cover a receiver without a pass rush. Shutdown corners are enablers to great defenses because they not only lock down a receiver but also expands the defensive playbook and creates options to freeing up others in order to stuff the run, and/or rush the QB. You have to put pressure on the QB or you are right, a shutdown corner (or Bailey as you say) is worthless. I am not sure what kind of coverages the Deadpins used with Bailey, but they obviously did not mimic successful teams who had corners of his caliber. This is how Denver uses his talents: first you have to rush the QB with either a safety blitz or linebacker blitz; and then you place Bailey on the opponent’s best receiver. While John Lynch, or Kennoy Kennedy, is placed either in or just outside of the box, to key off of the QB. Once it is determined to be a pass, he [Lynch] is cheated over in to zone coverages, and latches on to the no. 2 or/and 3 receiver. This creates complicated, disguise that are ment to confuse the QB. While the QB is being blitzed, and 1/3 of his field essentially taken away, more sacks and/or more interceptions will be created. You can’t tell me that Bailey is this talent less hack. When you leave any d-back on an island with out a scheme or a pass rush, no corner is going to cover for that long. Face it your defensive scheme was pathetic, and a waste of a great, and highly, athletic d-back.

This dude's ramble = hemorrhoidal blood fart

Just wait a few weeks for the outcome. Bailey was leaving the Skins anyway. We did what any team would do...trade em'. I honestly think both teams are satisfied. But for some reason Bronco fans are very wound up about this trade, that only means that they are the ones subconsciously concerned.

Now, go be a Gambit, your goal of creating a 15 page post is almost complete. Get a life, I'm gonna get a beer.

[1niksder]

Do you make this up as you go or are you just pulling our leg

Wow, you have called me out on the carpet, and I feel a little embarrassed—Are you kidding me?
First off, 1487--that was a typo, secondly, genius, Anderson was the starting tailback for 1 season--which goes to tell you that his rookie season is very close to Portis’ rookie season (20 something yards).

Was it a typo or was Anderson just 20 something yards off (23) you can't have it both ways
In 2001 Anderson played in ALL 16 games with a 3.9 ypc avg (678 yds for the year) did you guys change schemes that year and not tell anyone?

Olandis Gary—Also 1 season, he rushed for 1300 yards, however that may be playoff included as well. I’m not for certain there, so I apologies for that. However after that season, he was traded to the Lions, so his career production is a reflection of Detroit for 2-3 years, and Denver for only 1. Moreover, he was the running back for only one season.

where you been the last few years? Gary's 2nd year he only played in one game so I understand you not remembering that but he played in 9 games in 2001 and only missed 3 in 2002 he was traded to Detroit in 2003 where he gained more yards that year than the 2 previous combined... OH now I know why you forgot. that 1300 yards is correct if you count the 169 yards he had cathing the ball out of the backfield but we weren't talking about that were we?

So, with that in context, we are actually talking about a few yards here and there, and Portis’s production when comparing it to the rest of the Denver Bronco running backs is not all that great.

Anderson' career ypc avg is 4.5 best yr 2000 @ 5.0
Gary,s ...career ypc avg is 4.0 best yr 2000 @ 6.2 (played 1 game ran 13 times for 80 yards) throw that out and his career avg is 3.9

Portis was the only consistant back you've had in years 5.5 each year I can see you have trouble with "figuring" so I'll help you out that give's Portis a career avg of 5.5 ypc there is no best yr because 5.5 and 5.5 are equal
I'l say a half yard per carry more from my RB is great

2 year totals (we wont go over Rookie stats... we all know Portis had better stats...why beat a dead Bronco?)
Anderson totaled 2165 yards
Gary totaled 1239 yards
Portis was just Portis =(better than Anderson or Gary)

if you need anymore help with actually knowing what your team has done we'll be glad to help but just ask don't come with a bunch of BS it's almost time to play the games that count

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Elway, What is your problem? You are happy Bailey is in a
Broncos uniform and you should be. He is a great player.
But for some reason you feel the need to bash Portis.
What's the point? You have your "savior" in Bailey.
Just be satisfied with that...cause i know I'm satisfied
with Portis.

[1niksder]

Elway, What is your problem? You are happy Bailey is in a
Broncos uniform and you should be. He is a great player.
But for some reason you feel the need to bash Portis.
What's the point? You have your "savior" in Bailey.
Just be satisfied with that...cause i know I'm satisfied
with Portis.

His problem is
1.we know what we got and we know what we gave up (or would have lost anyway)
2. They know what they gave up but aren't sure what they got

Welcome to the board BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Elway07]

1niksder,

Man you have way too much information for me to decipher this late on Friday. However, I want to tell you, Mike Anderson after his rookie season was moved to full back, Anderson became the starter, for one year, after Gary was hurt in a preseason game. Meanwhile, Gary then was trades as soon as he regained some value. Portis started the season playing in all the games, and got most of the carries by--I think--week 3. He was never named the starter until week 6 though. Anderson is a more stable back than Portis, however Shanahan fell in love with Portis' speed and brokered a deal with Anderson to move to fullback. Anderson is a pounding, and buising back. He lowers his shoulders and he punishes defenses. Which is a totally different type of runner than Portis. However, Denver would have been more sucessful if they had used Anderson more to control the football and wear out defenses. Portis is a homerun threat, his yards came in allot of 60 yard chunks. Moreover, he not only played in Denver's system, but also in the AFC-West. He will not hold up in the NFC physical style. You are right, Denver has never had a running back as fast as Portis--until Tatum Bell. However his speed comes as a cost, which is he is too slight to carry an offensive load.

skins75,
I only can imagine that Shanny will mimic the successful teams who have Bailey type corners. Like NE, Ravens, and yes the EAGLES--Eat that Logs!

[Scooter]

Fellas, we don't need to respond to this pathetic chump. It's really sad when people have to beg for attention so much.

The key to the Broncos running game was Alex Gibbs - who is no longer in Denver. The Broncos are still going to miss the playoffs and the Chiefs will win the division easily.
0...

[Elway07]

Skins75,

Another thing, Portis was doing the same thing, however he did not see Denver trading him. He thought Shanahan would be force to the table, and then to shell out all that coin. He suffered whip lash when it was report on ESPN that Denver was in the mix for Bailey. Portis had TWO! years left on his deal, and he started crying in his rookie season.The kid played with a chip on his shoulder because he felt disrespected by the NFL for saying he was too small on draft day, and because he made so little money. For Washington's sake, you had better hope he still has that chip.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Elway, You don't know how the Skins did or did not use Bailey. You make a lot of assumptions with limmited
info. Find out some facts and then talk. Better yet,
just don't talk at all.

[Warmother]

..PS. I think your monitor is a nazi, I maybe getting kicked out of your little Nazi Germany here, because of my desenting opinions. If that happens, please know that the greatest QB to ever grace an NFL football field will be here around week 6 to laugh at your anti-Portis postings.

Hey Boss! "Sig HEIL! Sig HEIL!" No that stink's how about this. "Sig HAIL TO THE REDSKIN'S! Sig HAIL TO THE REDSKIN'S!"
Yeah I like that one better. I think the Final Solution to this arguement will be decided during the regular season.
PS
Why would Johnny Unitis come back from the dead in week 6 to laugh at anti-Portis postings?

[Scooter]

Boot him - he's just a little punk. Hey everybody, I'm for killing all puppies and kittens! - what a jackass. Step away from the keyboard, call your parents and apologize to them.

[hailskins666]

..PS. I think your monitor is a nazi, I maybe getting kicked out of your little Nazi Germany here, because of my desenting opinions. If that happens, please know that the greatest QB to ever grace an NFL football field will be here around week 6 to laugh at your anti-Portis postings.

Hassen Sie? Wenn Sie es hier nicht mögen? Dann müssen Sie verlassen. Begrüßen Sie zu den Redskins

well, you "thought" it, now you "know" it. keep it to civil discussion like you have, and you're fine. leave the profanity and any personal attacks out as you have, as this forum is rated "pg".

read the rules, obey them, and you're perfectly welcome.
http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11

[1niksder]

Man you have way too much information for me to decipher this late on Friday.

You come here running your mouth about your team and don't know anything about them... you are making it up as you go

However, I want to tell you, Mike Anderson after his rookie season was moved to full back, Anderson became the starter, for one year, after Gary was hurt in a preseason game.

Gary was the starter in 1999....Anderson's rookie year was 2000 the year Gary was hurt.....Gary and Anderson were ther in 2001 (they combined for less than a 1000 yards in that great system of yours)....Portis joined the team in 2002
with your made up theory means Denver played the 2001 season without a HB (great scheme) that would explain the low output of 2 guys you say is better than Portis

Meanwhile, Gary then was trades as soon as he regained some value. Portis started the season playing in all the games, and got most of the carries by--I think--week 3. He was never named the starter until week 6 though.

Again, Gary played for Denver in 2002 (13 games started 2 and wasn't traded until last year(2003). He was injuried in 2000 the same year Anderson had his ONLY productive year.

Anderson is a more stable back than Portis, however Shanahan fell in love with Portis' speed and brokered a deal with Anderson to move to fullback. Anderson is a pounding, and buising back. He lowers his shoulders and he punishes defenses. Which is a totally different type of runner than Portis. However, Denver would have been more sucessful if they had used Anderson more to control the football and wear out defenses. Portis is a homerun threat, his yards came in allot of 60 yard chunks.

More stable if you mean he was drafted and remains with the team but thats it his production has dropped every year he has been there...Anderson is a big back but Portis had a higher upside thats why Anderson was moved to FB (in his third season)....another bit of info for you since you need all you can get Anderson had 12 carries over 20 yards his 1st year Clinton only had 11

Moreover, he not only played in Denver's system, but also in the AFC-West. He will not hold up in the NFC physical style.

That's what they said when CP was drafted ..remember that Chip?

You are right, Denver has never had a running back as fast as Portis--until Tatum Bell. However his speed comes as a cost, which is he is too slight to carry an offensive load.

you better hope Bell has a chip too

skins75,
I only can imagine that Shanny will mimic the successful teams who have Bailey type corners. Like NE, Ravens, and yes the EAGLES--Eat that Logs!

You do have quite an imagination....stop making things up and wait until the season starts then we will all see what happens and we will understand when you never so up here again

[tcwest10]

Everybody is bitching and whining, but I'm digging this whole back and forth. Don't shoot...I'm being honest. I like it. It's why I come here.
(Except for the whole "Greatest to ever grace an NFL field" thing. That's plain silly, and it's also a whole 'nother topic.)

[1niksder]

Everybody is bitching and whining, but I'm digging this whole back and forth. Don't shoot...I'm being honest. I like it. It's why I come here.
(Except for the whole "Greatest to ever grace an NFL field" thing. That's plain silly, and it's also a whole 'nother topic.)

I only respond to see what the Bronco guru comes up with next or if he'll ever remember 2001