Deadskins wrote:No way do you franchise him. And just because they picked up Bob's option doesn't mean they were prepared to pay him, just that they were hedging their bets. If they want to keep Kirk, sign him to an extension before he hits the market, you don't overpay him the average of the top five QB salaries.
I agree. Even if Kirk becomes Aaron Rodgers over the next 11 games he can be signed to a long-term extension far cheaper and more cap friendly than using the franchise tag.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
oj wrote:I can see Cousins playing here for the next 15years, easily. He's smart, tough, lets others make the plays, not injury prone, takes few sacks - once he gets the experience he will be hard to beat. Remember, he is playing against a brand new team every week, he has to figure them out all over again. When he starts to replay those teams we'll see a different Cousins.
I agree with your overall assessment although I think the team will have to keep a head coach longer than a few seasons before it keeps a quarterback longer than a few seasons. I'm not sure I see Gruden here long enough to guarantee Kirk being on the roster that long. New coaches like to pick their own quarterbacks. I think Kirk would have to show a lot between now and season's end to even guarantee his position as next year's starter. I also think he's perfectly capable of doing so.
Snyder could screw up anything and might feel like tinkering but it looks to me that Scot and Jay are a good pair and I hope they leave the regime in place at least a couple of more seasons to improve. Scot's big boy roster strategy and Gruden's offense are compatible so I think Snyder keeps his nose out of things for awhile.
OldSchool wrote:Snyder could screw up anything and might feel like tinkering but it looks to me that Scot and Jay are a good pair and I hope they leave the regime in place at least a couple of more seasons to improve. Scot's big boy roster strategy and Gruden's offense are compatible so I think Snyder keeps his nose out of things for awhile.
Ordinarily I'm not much on prayer, but in this case I'll make an exception.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
Deadskins wrote:No way do you franchise him. And just because they picked up Bob's option doesn't mean they were prepared to pay him, just that they were hedging their bets. If they want to keep Kirk, sign him to an extension before he hits the market, you don't overpay him the average of the top five QB salaries.
I agree. Even if Kirk becomes Aaron Rodgers over the next 11 games he can be signed to a long-term extension far cheaper and more cap friendly than using the franchise tag.
I don't disagree with what you guys are saying, so no need for the eye roll. Of course the best option would be to sign him to an extension. But he's a FREE AGENT at the end of the season. He doesn't have to sign jack, especially if he has other options. Remember, Trent Green???
Green's breakout season came just in time, as he became an unrestricted free agent after the 1998 season. He rejected a 4-year, $12 million offer from the Redskins, and on February 15, 1999, he agreed to a 4-year $17.5 million contract with the St. Louis Rams which included a $4.5 million signing bonus
All I'm saying is that if you're not prepared to use the franchise tag, then you'd better be prepared to let him walk out the door.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I'll admit that Captain Kirk has stepped up but I do not see him becoming a really good NFL QB - I'm hoping for his sake as well as ours, that he can become a good starting QB - he's OK, and he's grabbing the opportunity but he just doesn't seem to have it all
I would be OK with Gruden and Captain Kirk in 2016 because that would mean we had a really good season - sorry, I just don't see that either
If Captain Kirk looks at all promising and he's going to be the starting QB here in 2016, then he will be here - Scot will make that happen
it's a moot point - Captain Kirk ain't that good
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
riggofan wrote:I don't disagree with what you guys are saying, so no need for the eye roll. Of course the best option would be to sign him to an extension. But he's a FREE AGENT at the end of the season. He doesn't have to sign jack, especially if he has other options. Remember, Trent Green???
Green's breakout season came just in time, as he became an unrestricted free agent after the 1998 season. He rejected a 4-year, $12 million offer from the Redskins, and on February 15, 1999, he agreed to a 4-year $17.5 million contract with the St. Louis Rams which included a $4.5 million signing bonus
All I'm saying is that if you're not prepared to use the franchise tag, then you'd better be prepared to let him walk out the door.
I remember Green well. I also remember Stan Humphries. We haven't had a good quarterback in so long I'm beginning to think we may never have another good one. We were due for another good one in 1997. You know, 1937, Baugh, 1967, Jurgensen, 1997? Here it is 2017 and we have dick. Don't get me wrong. We had competent guys made better by coaching and scheme (Theismann) and guys who had one or two incredible games (Williams) or seasons (Rypien) but I wouldn't call any quarterback we've had since Sonny a "Franchise Quarterback." If Kirk has a modicum of ability to be above average we have to keep him.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
I don't disagree with what you guys are saying, so no need for the eye roll. Of course the best option would be to sign him to an extension. But he's a FREE AGENT at the end of the season. He doesn't have to sign jack, especially if he has other options. Remember, Trent Green???
Riggo that's a great point, I only said what I said to ask if the Redskins would?? But don't be so quick to dismiss the FT. It's not about what he's worth it's what will others pay...My goodness how many times has Flynn been signed?? I fully expect Kirk to test the FA waters after the season and (of course alot depend on how he plays) I can see some QB staved team giving him a sizable contract...so placing the FT on him could be on the table depending on what else is available??
P.S. If he's played like Rogers he'll get a huge contract!!
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:If Kirk has a modicum of ability to be above average we have to keep him.
My thought as well. I think Green is a good example. He was like an 8th round draft pick, CFL guy who was able to develop into a solid starting QB. Three 4,000 yard seasons. We could have used that here. I'm sure when they let him walk though it was like, "Meh. He's ok. No Joe Montana though."
Again, just want to stress I am not saying Cousins is that guy at all. I personally have no idea. If Gruden/SM believe he can develop into a consistent, starting caliber QB though then we shouldn't be afraid to do what it takes to keep him, take the patient approach and let him develop.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I don't disagree with what you guys are saying, so no need for the eye roll. Of course the best option would be to sign him to an extension. But he's a FREE AGENT at the end of the season. He doesn't have to sign jack, especially if he has other options. Remember, Trent Green???
Riggo that's a great point, I only said what I said to ask if the Redskins would?? But don't be so quick to dismiss the FT. It's not about what he's worth it's what will others pay...My goodness how many times has Flynn been signed?? I fully expect Kirk to test the FA waters after the season and (of course alot depend on how he plays) I can see some QB staved team giving him a sizable contract...so placing the FT on him could be on the table depending on what else is available??
P.S. If he's played like Rogers he'll get a huge contract!!
I'm not dismissing the FT at all. I agree 100% with what you're saying, DE.
I would be concerned letting him get to free agency for another reason too. There's no guarantee that we would win a bidding war with another team. Given the dysfunction here and some of the treatment he has received along the way, I could see him weighing other factors than just the bottom line $$$.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I don't disagree with what you guys are saying, so no need for the eye roll. Of course the best option would be to sign him to an extension. But he's a FREE AGENT at the end of the season. He doesn't have to sign jack, especially if he has other options. Remember, Trent Green???
Riggo that's a great point, I only said what I said to ask if the Redskins would?? But don't be so quick to dismiss the FT. It's not about what he's worth it's what will others pay...My goodness how many times has Flynn been signed?? I fully expect Kirk to test the FA waters after the season and (of course alot depend on how he plays) I can see some QB staved team giving him a sizable contract...so placing the FT on him could be on the table depending on what else is available??
P.S. If he's played like Rogers he'll get a huge contract!!
I'm not dismissing the FT at all. I agree 100% with what you're saying, DE.
I would be concerned letting him get to free agency for another reason too. There's no guarantee that we would win a bidding war with another team. Given the dysfunction here and some of the treatment he has received along the way, I could see him weighing other factors than just the bottom line $$$.
Totally agree and I wouldn't blame him one bit. I can easliy see a bidding war for him...just take a look around the league at who's playing the position. Here's what would be interesting...say both RG and Kirk hit the FA market...who gets signed first/larger contract??
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
riggofan wrote:Again, just want to stress I am not saying Cousins is that guy at all. I personally have no idea.
Precisely. But you also aren't saying Cousins isn't that guy which is something being said by a number of people here. We're fans. When it comes down to brass tacks none of us knows anything that qualifies us to think we're smarter than the people who are paid to do this for a living. We have to trust their judgment because we don't call the shots. Having said that, if this team decides to stop fishing and cut bait one more effing time I'm going to pay a visit to Redskins Park with a large amount of grape Flavor Aid.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
SkinsJock wrote:I'll admit that Captain Kirk has stepped up but I do not see him becoming a really good NFL QB - I'm hoping for his sake as well as ours, that he can become a good starting QB - he's OK, and he's grabbing the opportunity but he just doesn't seem to have it all
I would be OK with Gruden and Captain Kirk in 2016 because that would mean we had a really good season - sorry, I just don't see that either
If Captain Kirk looks at all promising and he's going to be the starting QB here in 2016, then he will be here - Scot will make that happen
it's a moot point - Captain Kirk ain't that good
just to make sure that this is clear - Scot will pay Captain Kirk whatever it takes if he wants him back here ...
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Considering we're not currently spending franchise-QB-dollars on a quarterback, it shouldn't be much of a problem to keep Cousins here. I don't even mind if he gets overpaid by a bit for the few years it takes us to find a long-term starter. (I'm assuming that McCloughan / the coaches don't believe Cousins is.)
DEHog wrote:Totally agree and I wouldn't blame him one bit. I can easliy see a bidding war for him...just take a look around the league at who's playing the position. Here's what would be interesting...say both RG and Kirk hit the FA market...who gets signed first/larger contract??
I don't think that is even debatable. As it currently stands, there is very little interest in RGIII (although his contract is an issue). If Cousins were on the market, there would be multiple teams in the mix.
Cousins ranks 16th in QBR this year and is considered being early in his career. I think that will attract a number of suitors who think their situation will improve his play more than his current output (which is mediocre). And personally, I don't think Cousins is a huge fan of how things have gone down in DC and would show little, if any, loyalty to the organization in salary negotiations.
DEHog wrote:Totally agree and I wouldn't blame him one bit. I can easliy see a bidding war for him...just take a look around the league at who's playing the position. Here's what would be interesting...say both RG and Kirk hit the FA market...who gets signed first/larger contract??
I don't think that is even debatable. As it currently stands, there is very little interest in RGIII (although his contract is an issue). If Cousins were on the market, there would be multiple teams in the mix.
Cousins ranks 16th in QBR this year and is considered being early in his career. I think that will attract a number of suitors who think their situation will improve his play more than his current output (which is mediocre). And personally, I don't think Cousins is a huge fan of how things have gone down in DC and would show little, if any, loyalty to the organization in salary negotiations.
I would agree!!
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
SkinsJock wrote:I'll admit that Captain Kirk has stepped up but I do not see him becoming a really good NFL QB - I'm hoping for his sake as well as ours, that he can become a good starting QB - he's OK, and he's grabbing the opportunity but he just doesn't seem to have it all
I would be OK with Gruden and Captain Kirk in 2016 because that would mean we had a really good season - sorry, I just don't see that either
If Captain Kirk looks at all promising and he's going to be the starting QB here in 2016, then he will be here - Scot will make that happen
it's a moot point - Captain Kirk ain't that good
Of course you can't envision Cousins continuing to improve because he already makes pre snap reads, calls protection changes and audibles, moves around in the pocket to extend plays while he rapidly goes through his route tree and pulls the trigger quickly to avoid sacks and maintain drives. You prefer a QB that failed to learn how to do any of these things in 3 1/2 years because he has a much higher ceiling.....
Last edited by OldSchool on Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
keep it up OS - paybacks are coming your way ... big time
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:keep it up OS - paybacks are coming your way ... big time
Statements like these are one of the reasons people can't take you seriously. This literally screams, "keep it up, I'll laugh in your face when Cousins fails". You want him to fail. It's pathetic.
OldSchool wrote:I want to see Cousins start 16 games because I think the more he starts the more we will see performances like today. Shanahan said recently that he thought Cousins could become a top 10 QB and needed time and a more balanced team to work with to realize that potential. It is easy to spot Kirk's upside because he thinks so quickly and has a really nice arm. I want the Skins to give Kirk the rest of the year because he just might be the guy we've been hoping for a long time. I not saying he is but I am definitely saying he might be so he needs to get at least the rest of thus year to see if he can continue to grow and develop.
well it's been 2 weeks ... hopefully he plays well this week and then does really well during the bye week so he can come back and lead the team to success against the Patriots - although I'm sure there will be a bunch of excuses from some here as to why things don't go so well ..
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
OldSchool wrote:I want to see Cousins start 16 games because I think the more he starts the more we will see performances like today. Shanahan said recently that he thought Cousins could become a top 10 QB and needed time and a more balanced team to work with to realize that potential. It is easy to spot Kirk's upside because he thinks so quickly and has a really nice arm. I want the Skins to give Kirk the rest of the year because he just might be the guy we've been hoping for a long time. I not saying he is but I am definitely saying he might be so he needs to get at least the rest of thus year to see if he can continue to grow and develop.
well it's been 2 weeks ... hopefully he plays well this week and then does really well during the bye week so he can come back and lead the team to success against the Patriots - although I'm sure there will be a bunch of excuses from some here as to why things don't go so well ..
Super fan.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
SkinsJock wrote:well it's been 2 weeks ... hopefully he plays well this week and then does really well during the bye week so he can come back and lead the team to success against the Patriots - although I'm sure there will be a bunch of excuses from some here as to why things don't go so well ..
You are in denial if you don't believe the same excuses were used for Griffin's poor play. How many times was Gruden, the offensive line, and receivers blamed for deficiencies in Griffin's play? Daily. And you know what? I don't have a problem with people who want to absolve the QB's of a team they root for. Most fans don't want to see (or admit) their QB on their favorite team is a failure. Except certain trolls who get a kick out of a quarterback who had a bad game and dub them "Captain Pick". Enjoy this week. I expect you to disappear when Kirk has a bounce back game.
SkinsJock wrote:well it's been 2 weeks ... hopefully he plays well this week and then does really well during the bye week so he can come back and lead the team to success against the Patriots - although I'm sure there will be a bunch of excuses from some here as to why things don't go so well ..
You are in denial if you don't believe the same excuses were used for Griffin's poor play. How many times was Gruden, the offensive line, and receivers blamed for deficiencies in Griffin's play? Daily. And you know what? I don't have a problem with people who want to absolve the QB's of a team they root for. Most fans don't want to see (or admit) their QB on their favorite team is a failure. Except certain trolls who get a kick out of a quarterback who had a bad game and dub them "Captain Pick". Enjoy this week. I expect you to disappear when Kirk has a bounce back game.
OK fair enough - let's see what happens - how confident are you? I'll be back to you in 2 weeks
you and certain others here are just so wrong and it's obvious you can't handle the truth so you come up with this troll bs
I wanted Captain Pick, Kissing Cousins, Captain Kirk or whoever he is to play well - he's not playing to the level he's capable of and I'm tired of seeing him let the offense down - sit him - we sat Griffin, so sit this loser's ass and wake him up so he can play QB like the back up QB he is
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
some of you guys are obviously not watching the same games I'm watching - that, or you have what I'd call selective 'vision'
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
