Dat Nguyen a top ten MLB IMO

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:35 am

OXNARD, Calif. - How others in football see the Cowboys doesn't necessarily jibe with the prevailing optimism of this training camp.

In some cases, the two views do not even live under the same ozone layer.

Take for instance, this opinion from the outside:

Scouts, Inc., a group of former NFL personnel people, grade and rate talent for organizations and news outlets.

In a survey for ESPN.com, Scouts, Inc. broke down all 32 NFL teams position-by-position, plus special teams, and ranked each against the rest of the league.

The Cowboys' talent finished a dismal 25th overall.

That equates to about four wins, maybe five, for the coming season.

I repeat an opinion from last January, after the Cowboys were plastered in the first round of the playoffs by the Carolina Panthers.

That game alone proved the miracle of Big Bill's magic touch in winning 10 regular-season games.

There was no way. Not 10 wins. Not on paper.

What the latest Scouts, Inc. survey indicates is it won't happen again.

The Cowboys for 2004 only had two positions ranked in the league's top 10. Five positions didn't make it out of the 20s. Quarterback was rated 31st. (And friends tell me I have overdone it with Cow QB panic).

Anyway, the highlight from Scouts, Inc. is that the Cowboys' linebackers were ranked No. 7 in the league. Defensive backfield was next highest at No. 10.

But about those linebackers.

Dat Dude.

There is only one reason the Cowboys' LBs received that kind of respect.

Dat Nguyen. The Aggie.

A legend grows. Which, of course, is what Dat never did. He never grew taller than 5-foot-11.

A year ago in training camp, Bill Parcells was playfully chiding the Cowboys' scouting department for his inheritance of exactly the kind of linebackers he didn't want.

"If this were the circus, we could fit them all into one of those Volkswagens that 10 clowns climb out of," joked Parcells.

Then Parcells watched Dat perform in 17 games at middle linebacker.

"A football-playing dude," became the Parcells description of Nguyen that receives ample media use.

Last week, Parcells said Nguyen, all 5-11 of him, would have been a stud in any defensive unit he ever coached, meaning a fine collection of big and fast linebackers.

This week, Larry Lacewell was sitting in on the team scouts' evaluation period in which Parcells and Jerry Jones seek opinions.

"The scouting staff is divided into positions," said Lacewell, the Cowboys' director of college and pro scouting. "My area is linebackers. I told Bill and Jerry that Dat Nguyen was the best middle linebacker I've ever been around, and I had Lee Roy Jordan at Alabama, plus a bunch of other real good ones over the years.

"I'm not saying Dat is the best in the league. But he's the best I've ever dealt with."

In scouting, players are graded on "position specifics."

That means size, height, speed, etc.

"Dat still doesn't fit one @#%$ position specific," Lacewell said. "But he's a football-playing dude."

For those, however, who don't think Nguyen has speed, then they haven't heard him verbally backpedal when all these compliments are passed along. Bob Hayes never moved so fast.

The beauty of Dat Nguyen is he talks and plays like a guy who runs scared of being cut immediately by Parcells.

"With [Parcells], you'd better bring your 'A' game to practice and to the games, or you won't be around here very long," Dat said Wednesday. "I certainly knew his history, about how much he liked big linebackers and also the 3-4 defense. But on the other hand, he had the reputation of being willing to give anybody a chance.

"I found out he's flexible, no matter what his history is. He's the kind of coach you don't want to ever let down."

The 1999 Cowboys' draft is not one of the proudest moments in scouting. Exactly one player remains with the team. Exactly one starter from that group has emerged anywhere in the NFL.

Taken in the third round ... Dat Nguyen.

"And that was the proverbial reach," Lacewell said. "But at least I was right on something. When we took Dat I said if he wasn't a good football player for us, I'd quit looking for football players."

When Texas A&M had its pro scouts day in the spring of '99, Lacewell refused to drive to College Station. "I already knew Dat wasn't going to be big enough, fast enough or tall enough, not based on the positional specs. But I already knew we were going to draft him, and draft him high.

"I wasn't going to College Station and talk myself out of that. A couple of years before, I'd gone through the same thing on Zach Thomas at Texas Tech. Our scouts came back from Tech telling me he's too small and too slow. When Jimmy [Johnson] took him at Miami, and I watched Thomas play, I kicked myself for weeks and months."

At the position of linebacker, Parcells does appear to now be looking for the bigger and the faster. He's also tampering with a 3-4 scheme. But the looking and tampering stops when it comes to the middle.

Dat Dude has become a coveted Bill Guy.

An opinion this week on the Cowboys from the outside (Scouts, Inc.) pointed out vast areas of inferiority. Except one. Those "positional specs" don't apply to Mr. Nguyen.

TAKE NOTE ITS NOT ALL ABOUT THE PHYSICAL. SOMETIMES, JUST SOMETIMES BRAINS, HEART, DETERMINATION AND DRIVE GO ALONG WAY.

Redskin Stouff · Post by **Redskin Stouff** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:12 am

Yep Dat is a good LB for sure. He'll need to play great if the Cowpukes have any chance, because their offense is gonna stink.

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:28 am

Redskin Stouff wrote:Yep Dat is a good LB for sure. He'll need to play great if the Cowpukes have any chance, because their offense is gonna stink.

Dont just say our offense is gonna stick tell me why. That way i can prove you wrong. :wink:

1. Our running game is way better then it was last year.
2. Our offensive line , espically the left side is gonna be better. Last year fat arse Larry Allen could hardly finish sprints. Now he is leading all o-linemen in the runs.
3. TE position is ROCK solid with Witten, Campbell and the rookie from Boston College Ryan.
4. Bryant got his dayum Laser Surgery after playing dayum near blind in college and his first 2 years in the NFL. Keyshawn will be Keyshawn and move the ball. Glenn, well all I can say is she is one helluva a WR. Oh and our fourth WR Dedric Ward would be a #3 on other Squads.
5. Vinny had better stats then QC against Skins, Buffalo, New England and Miami. Now he has a better O-line, better and healthy RB's and better WR's and TE's. I would rather take his sacks then QC's Int's. Shoot Drew Henson already is better then Hutch.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:37 am

I think the key to the boy's season... is Vinny.... If he can play like Vinny a couple years ago... when he was last with Billy Boy... then there looking pretty good....

But if he stinks it up... or he get's injured... I'm afraid your season's done... Henson might be your future... But i can't see him stepping in right now and taking this team to the playoff's.... not this year anyways...

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:39 am

BringThePain! wrote:I think the key to the boy's season... is Vinny.... If he can play like Vinny a couple years ago... when he was last with Billy Boy... then there looking pretty good....

But if he stinks it up... or he get's injured... I'm afraid your season's done... Henson might be your future... But i can't see him stepping in right now and taking this team to the playoff's.... not this year anyways...

True BTP very TRUE....Do they make Viagra cream. That way we can rub it all over Vinny......So his body will be rock solid...LOL

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:43 am

True BTP very TRUE....Do they make Viagra cream. That way we can rub it all over Vinny......So his body will be rock solid...LOL

OMG!

That is by far the most disgusting thing I have heard in a long time!

I hope nobody tackles him low!

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:43 am

They're working on it, but there have been complaints of it causing arthritis.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:23 pm

gambit187 wrote:
BringThePain! wrote:I think the key to the boy's season... is Vinny.... If he can play like Vinny a couple years ago... when he was last with Billy Boy... then there looking pretty good....

But if he stinks it up... or he get's injured... I'm afraid your season's done... Henson might be your future... But i can't see him stepping in right now and taking this team to the playoff's.... not this year anyways...

True BTP very TRUE....Do they make Viagra cream. That way we can rub it all over Vinny......So his body will be rock solid...LOL

Isn't this one of those posts, that you just look back on and say... uh... maybe I shouldn't have went that far... I mean.... I don't know what "we" your talking about cabana boy... but "I" ain't touching him....I'll look into your cream products for you to help you out... but your gonna have to pick up my slack on the action part.. alright sally?

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:36 pm

BringThePain! wrote:
gambit187 wrote:
BringThePain! wrote:I think the key to the boy's season... is Vinny.... If he can play like Vinny a couple years ago... when he was last with Billy Boy... then there looking pretty good....

But if he stinks it up... or he get's injured... I'm afraid your season's done... Henson might be your future... But i can't see him stepping in right now and taking this team to the playoff's.... not this year anyways...

True BTP very TRUE....Do they make Viagra cream. That way we can rub it all over Vinny......So his body will be rock solid...LOL

Isn't this one of those posts, that you just look back on and say... uh... maybe I shouldn't have went that far... I mean.... I don't know what "we" your talking about cabana boy... but "I" ain't touching him....I'll look into your cream products for you to help you out... but your gonna have to pick up my slack on the action part.. alright sally?

Ummm I think your right BTP, must be all these dayum POP up ads i keep getting, and bulk emails...LOL

Redskin Stouff · Post by **Redskin Stouff** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:12 pm

Ok gambit, here's why Dallass' offense will stink:

1) Vinny is a statue and he's gonna get creamed (and not the cream mentioned above).
2) Vinny is 41 (almost 42) - enough said.
3) Julius Jones - more like Jenny Jones
4) Eddie "3.2" George
5) Meshawn Johnston - he's so slow, he could be covered by Cornelius Griffen
6) An injury or two to the offensive line and Eddie George might as well kneel when handed the ball.
7) They have to face the Redskins revamped D twice.

I hope this helps you understand that last year was a miracle - an ABC after school special. It will not be all fairy dust and lollipops again this year.

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:54 pm

Redskin Stouff wrote:Ok gambit, here's why Dallass' offense will stink:

1) Vinny is a statue and he's gonna get creamed (and not the cream mentioned above).
2) Vinny is 41 (almost 42) - enough said.
3) Julius Jones - more like Jenny Jones
4) Eddie "3.2" George
5) Meshawn Johnston - he's so slow, he could be covered by Cornelius Griffen
6) An injury or two to the offensive line and Eddie George might as well kneel when handed the ball.
7) They have to face the Redskins revamped D twice.

I hope this helps you understand that last year was a miracle - an ABC after school special. It will not be all fairy dust and lollipops again this year.

To give you a rebuttal.

1 and 2 The stats that i pulled on Vinny were from last year. A years differnce will not matter a whole lot. He is behind a better line.

3 I guess 8 rushes for 56 yards is talk show numbers huh. Jenny Jones huh ...DONT BE HATIN.

4. Eddie 3.2 or 3.3 still is a team leader, and will be part of the running back by committe. Eddie George and Julius Jones are 10 times better then Hambrick. The guy that got ran all over you guys.

5. Meshawn maybe slow, but i guess u forgot Irvin was slow too. You dont have to fast to be productive in this league as a WR, you just gotta know to position your body and run your routes.

6. We have plenty of depth on the Oline from last year and our 2 draft pics this year.

7.Revamped Defense huh. I have seen a bunch of revamp D's since i got here in 95.

Come with facts and stats or better yet come with some WINS REDSKINSTOUF.

It taks more then what you posted to get me to calm down. Just as BTP.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:02 pm

gambit187 wrote:It taks more then what you posted to get me to calm down. Just as BTP.

That's Right! he needs a case of "Viagra Cream" and a good 10 minutes with Vinny to cure all the "hatin"

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:14 pm

Redskin Stouff wrote:Ok gambit, here's why Dallass' offense will stink:

1) Vinny is a statue and he's gonna get creamed (and not the cream mentioned above).
2) Vinny is 41 (almost 42) - enough said.
3) Julius Jones - more like Jenny Jones
4) Eddie "3.2" George
5) Meshawn Johnston - he's so slow, he could be covered by Cornelius Griffen
6) An injury or two to the offensive line and Eddie George might as well kneel when handed the ball.
7) They have to face the Redskins revamped D twice.

I hope this helps you understand that last year was a miracle - an ABC after school special. It will not be all fairy dust and lollipops again this year.

1) Vinny has a remarkably low sacks/attempt ratio over his career. It's all about getting the ball out on time.

2) It's 40 almost 41, younger than Warren Moon's last pro-bowl.

3) Julius Jones will prove to be a steal. He's that good.

4) I agree here an actually don't know why he was signed.

5) See #4.

6) This is the deepest Dallas O-line in the last 25 years. Some guys that will be cut will be starting elsewhere in the near future.

7) Where's that :rolling emoticon when you need it.

Redskin Stouff · Post by **Redskin Stouff** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:26 pm

Do you hear yourselves?? You're pinning your hopes on Vinny T! :shock:

He will NEVER complete a 16 game schedule at his age. If he gets hurt, excuse me, when he gets hurt, you're left with Drew Henson (wasn't he the creator of the Muppets?)

Bill Parcells is gonna gain 50 lbs and go bald coaching Dallass this year. :nana:

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:34 pm

Redskin Stouff wrote:Do you hear yourselves?? You're pinning your hopes on Vinny T!

It sure as &#$% beats pinning your hopes on Quincy Carter!! :lol:

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:04 pm

curveball wrote:
Redskin Stouff wrote:Do you hear yourselves?? You're pinning your hopes on Vinny T!

It sure as &#$% beats pinning your hopes on Quincy Carter!!

He's got a point...

Redskins Rule · Post by **Redskins Rule** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:21 am

Thats funny as hell!!!! Their pinning all of their hopes on a washed up old mand because that old man is better then what they had before.

I love it!!!!!

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:25 am

back on topic. i despise dat. and if i despise a player, that probably means he plays for the pukes and is probably pretty good. :puke:

there i said it. going to wash my mouth out with soap for speaking so vulgar.

i hope derrick dockery steps on dat like a bug, when he bulldozes by.

DallasCowboysFan · Post by **DallasCowboysFan** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:21 pm

Pretty funny all this comes from a team that had Heath Shuler.... as for Vinny he will be alright. You just hope Brunells Knees hold out.

Here's a stat for you one QB has 17 completions out of 32 attempts for a 71.9 QB Rating. The other QB has 17 completions out of 24 attempts for a 88.5 QB rating. The first one had a first time pro-bowler last year with the last name of Coles. The second has 2 WR's with a total of 4 Pro-Bowls!

For ths guy dogging Eddie George with his 3.2 or 3.3 or whatever....let me throw another number out there. 3.9! That is your golden boy Portis right now. Eddie is a 3.6 right now! However we have a 5.1 rookie in JJ!

Ya'll just keep worrying about the Skins and we will see you on Monday night!

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:31 am

DallasCowboysFan wrote:Pretty funny all this comes from a team that had Heath Shuler....

Yeah, and you guys picked up Ryan Leaf last year. What's your point? Dat is as good a player as the 'Pies have on the entire team. Our D is going to be top 5 this year. Gambit, you started this thread out right with the whole Scouts, inc. thing. They give plenty of reasons why your team ranks #25 overall. The 'Skins are #8, BTW, only 6 points away from the #5 spot, and 20 off the #2 pace. They rate your increadible running game #26, your great O-line #28, and your winning QB situation a whopping #31. How's that for details to back up our argument that the 'Pies will suck this season? Here's the link:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1858398
You have to have ESPN Insider, but you can get a 30 day free trial.

Redskin Stouff · Post by **Redskin Stouff** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:17 am

Hey DallasCowboyFan, nothing like quoting preseason stats to prove a point. :roll:

With or without Dat, the Pukes will be lucky to win 6 games this year.

Vinny will be in traction by week 4 and then the great Drew Henson experiment will be under way. :shock:

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:33 am

Redskin Stouff wrote:Hey DallasCowboyFan, nothing like quoting preseason stats to prove a point.

With or without Dat, the Pukes will be lucky to win 6 games this year.

Vinny will be in traction by week 4 and then the great Drew Henson experiment will be under way.

Wow Stouff you are the true defination of a HOMER. Cowboyfan is just putting up the facts man just the facts

Redskin Stouff · Post by **Redskin Stouff** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:36 am

I can't deny that gambit. I was born hating the Cowboys and my hatred only grows stronger each year. :twisted:

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:42 am

gambit187 wrote:
Redskin Stouff wrote:Hey DallasCowboyFan, nothing like quoting preseason stats to prove a point.

With or without Dat, the Pukes will be lucky to win 6 games this year.

Vinny will be in traction by week 4 and then the great Drew Henson experiment will be under way.

Wow Stouff you are the true defination of a HOMER. Cowboyfan is just putting up the facts man just the facts

Yeah, Gambit, but quoting pre-season "facts" does not tell the whole story. Who did Jones get those yards against? Was it starters for a good team, or was it scrubs and cut-list fodder for a second-tier squad?. The point is pre-season stats don't mean doodley-squat. And how about what Scout's, inc. thinks about your wonderful offense?

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:52 am

JSPB22 wrote:
DallasCowboysFan wrote:Pretty funny all this comes from a team that had Heath Shuler....

Yeah, and you guys picked up Ryan Leaf last year. What's your point? Dat is as good a player as the 'Pies have on the entire team. Our D is going to be top 5 this year. Gambit, you started this thread out right with the whole Scouts, inc. thing. They give plenty of reasons why your team ranks #25 overall. The 'Skins are #8, BTW, only 6 points away from the #5 spot, and 20 off the #2 pace. They rate your increadible running game #26, your great O-line #28, and your winning QB situation a whopping #31. How's that for details to back up our argument that the 'Pies will suck this season? Here's the link:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1858398
You have to have ESPN Insider, but you can get a 30 day free trial.

1. We did not sign Ryan Leaf last year. That was a couple of years ago. A. We got him cheap. B. When we released him, we were not carrying a large cap number like you guys SEE JEFF GEORGE.

2. Yada , Yada, Yada our running game is the pitts huh. Well it looks like our running game is alot better then the skins. Oh yeah the so called experts say we should have drafted Steven Jackson out of Oregon.

Jackson 29 carries for 126 yards. 4.34 per carry 0td
Jones 22 carries for 113 yards. 5.13 per carry 1td

Looks like Parcells knows what he wants out of a Running back. The trade with Buffalo is looking better and better every day.

3. At this point Drew Henson has out performed Ramsey. And the only thing Brunell has on him is 1 touch down, but Henson still has a better completion %.