Philty won't even say/print "Redskins"

[tribeofjudah]

They are clearly NOT a fan of the term: REDSKINS

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Eventually the team is going to have to change the name. They've lost several trademark protections. A large amount of major media won't even say or print the name. Not one single federally recognized tribe out of 566 supports the name. All of the largest ones openly oppose it. The name has been an issue for the last 45 years but this time it's not being swept under the rug. The NCAI has made it their mission to fight tooth and nail to the point where, literally, hundreds of teams have stopped using not only Redskins but also other team names which refer to indigenous peoples. There's also the stadium issue. On one hand, it's much ado about nothing. It's a team name. On the other hand, it's much ado about everything. Pick any other word defined as a racial epithet and ask yourself if it would be found acceptable as a team name.

For now, it's Hail To The Redskins! But no one should be surprised if the team name is changed, despite Dan Snyder's "Never" statement. Right now, he has a bad team in a bad stadium. But what happens when he has a good team in a bad stadium? In a couple of years when he wants a new stadium where RFK sits and he wants public funding to pay for some portion of it he's right back to fighting with the D.C. council and the feds who are adamant they aren't giving him anything unless he changes the name. What's he going to do? Put a stadium in Northern Virginia where property taxes are, if you'll pardon the pun, monumentally higher. There's also the issue of shared revenue from advertisements. What does the NFL think about ads that can't or won't even use the team name? I just don't see how keeping the name is going to work in Dan Snyder's financial favor long-term.

Before this turns into a giant pissing contest I'm not advocating a name change. I'm just expecting one.

[SkinsJock]

I think it will change eventually but not while the 'value' keeps going up ... this franchise was purchased for $800M and it's now worth $2,850,000,000.00 and growing ...

[DEHog]

Maybe they should worry more about their players use of the N word??

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Maybe they should worry more about their players use of the N word??

Different discussion but, in short, so long as society allows two different sets of rules, one which says "I can use the word because I am the word" and another which says "You cannot use the word because you are not the word" then we will always have to argue context and intent, which I'm sure you are aware cannot be inferred. You can't guess intent or context but you can always assume the worst. I'm not one for policing language but I do think it makes sense to simply avoid using certain terms which serve no practical purpose other than incitement.

[DEHog]

Maybe they should worry more about their players use of the N word??

Different discussion but, in short, so long as society allows two different sets of rules, one which says "I can use the word because I am the word" and another which says "You cannot use the word because you are not the word" then we will always have to argue context and intent, which I'm sure you are aware cannot be inferred. You can't guess intent or context but you can always assume the worst. I'm not one for policing language but I do think it makes sense to simply avoid using certain terms which serve no practical purpose other than incitement.

Valid points I totally agree... but society seems to have no issue with some “taboo” words and issues. I’m in the camp of let the free market decide. Why is it OK for comedians, movies and music to use certain words? Why is porn Ok…because there’s a market for it? I don’t see anyone calling for the end of these things? I've always wondered what does it mean to be offended? Do you lose sleep does sex not feel as good?? When you are offended you really do one thing...you don't allow it into your life. Right now there is still a market for the Redskins and that’s why the name hasn’t change. If Snyder showed up Sunday and there were 20 fans in the stadium the name would be changed before sundown. Case in point look at how quickly the NBA ousted Sterling!!

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Maybe they should worry more about their players use of the N word??

Different discussion but, in short, so long as society allows two different sets of rules, one which says "I can use the word because I am the word" and another which says "You cannot use the word because you are not the word" then we will always have to argue context and intent, which I'm sure you are aware cannot be inferred. You can't guess intent or context but you can always assume the worst. I'm not one for policing language but I do think it makes sense to simply avoid using certain terms which serve no practical purpose other than incitement.

Valid points I totally agree... but society seems to have no issue with some “taboo” words and issues. I’m in the camp of let the free market decide. Why is it OK for comedians, movies and music to use certain words? Why is porn Ok…because there’s a market for it? I don’t see anyone calling for the end of these things? I've always wondered what does it mean to be offended? Do you lose sleep does sex not feel as good?? When you are offended you really do one thing...you don't allow it into your life. Right now there is still a market for the Redskins and that’s why the name hasn’t change. If Snyder showed up Sunday and there were 20 fans in the stadium the name would be changed before sundown. Case in point look at how quickly the NBA ousted Sterling!!

There is a line somewhere but I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for drawing it. Friends often use less than "politically correct" terms when communicating with one another but in a public environment such as one's employment it will cause issues. I can remember my generation using terminology that no one is seemingly allowed to use today. Perhaps we've regressed as a society. Everything is offensive to someone, or so someone will claim. You certainly couldn't get Archie Bunker or Fred Sanford on TV now. Part of the issue, in my opinion, is we can't honestly discuss language if we can't even use the language in the context of discussion. You typed "The 'N' word" for one of two reasons. Either you consciously chose not to use the actual word or the word is censored. Or perhaps both. I won't use the word here either. I also won't refer to it as "the 'N' word." If you're not one then why would the word offend you? If you think you are one and are therefore offended by the word you have a self esteem issue, not a race problem. I feel that way about all words but I used that one because it was already included in the discussion here.

Specific to the context of the football team, we've gone insane as a society. Of all the problems we have the one sports media is most focused on is the name of a football team? I agree not to refer to any indigenous person by the term and to not appropriate indigenous culture by dressing in redface or chicken feathers or the like. What I disagree with is how a term someone or something (in this case a football franchise) uses to refer to itself is offensive to other people. That's policing and controlling my language which is a violation of my constitutional right to freedom of expression. If you don't like the word, don't use the word. But don't tell me I can't. I'll utilize the (admittedly limited) critical thought processes and cognitive motor functions I was given to objectively analyze the evidence in favor of and opposing and draw my own conclusions. Then I'll accept the consequences of my decision because that's the part most people seem to want to leave out. But the odds are highly in my favor that someone being offended by my speech will have no ostensible consequences. You're offended? And?

[DEHog]

I don't see anyone referring to the Redskins as the "R" word like they do with the "N" word...which has never been a part of my vocabulary, it's ironic I hear it more today than I ever have!

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

I don't see anyone referring to the Redskins as the "R" word like they do with the "N" word...which has never been a part of my vocabulary, it's ironic I hear it more today than I ever have!

No, we don't get "The 'R' word." We get "The Washington Football Team."

[DEHog]

I don't see anyone referring to the Redskins as the "R" word like they do with the "N" word...which has never been a part of my vocabulary, it's ironic I hear it more today than I ever have!

No, we don't get "The 'R' word." We get "The Washington Football Team."

Yea that’s kinda my point...we just get Washington, but we are lead to believe that the name rises to the "N" word...which I understand has a different meaning among different people especially if you put an “A” on the end. How about this we put a “Z” on the end of Redskins and use it among RedskinZ fans!!

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Yea that’s kinda my point...we just get Washington, but we are lead to believe that the name rises to the "N" word...which I understand has a different meaning among different people especially if you put an “A” on the end. How about this we put a “Z” on the end of Redskins and use it among RedskinZ fans!!

[Deadskins]

There is a line somewhere but I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for drawing it. Friends often use less than "politically correct" terms when communicating with one another but in a public environment such as one's employment it will cause issues. I can remember my generation using terminology that no one is seemingly allowed to use today. Perhaps we've regressed as a society. Everything is offensive to someone, or so someone will claim. You certainly couldn't get Archie Bunker or Fred Sanford on TV now. Part of the issue, in my opinion, is we can't honestly discuss language if we can't even use the language in the context of discussion. You typed "The 'N' word" for one of two reasons. Either you consciously chose not to use the actual word or the word is censored. Or perhaps both. I won't use the word here either. I also won't refer to it as "the 'N' word." If you're not one then why would the word offend you? If you think you are one and are therefore offended by the word you have a self esteem issue, not a race problem. I feel that way about all words but I used that one because it was already included in the discussion here.

Specific to the context of the football team, we've gone insane as a society. Of all the problems we have the one sports media is most focused on is the name of a football team? I agree not to refer to any indigenous person by the term and to not appropriate indigenous culture by dressing in redface or chicken feathers or the like. What I disagree with is how a term someone or something (in this case a football franchise) uses to refer to itself is offensive to other people. That's policing and controlling my language which is a violation of my constitutional right to freedom of expression. If you don't like the word, don't use the word. But don't tell me I can't. I'll utilize the (admittedly limited) critical thought processes and cognitive motor functions I was given to objectively analyze the evidence in favor of and opposing and draw my own conclusions. Then I'll accept the consequences of my decision because that's the part most people seem to want to leave out. But the odds are highly in my favor that someone being offended by my speech will have no ostensible consequences. You're offended? And?

Your whole point revolves around the assumption that Redskins is a racist pejorative.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Your whole point revolves around the assumption that Redskins is a racist pejorative.

Redskins is a racist pejorative. It is defined as such. That's not up for debate here. That would be akin to arguing that Riley Cooper didn't mean the dictionary definition of the word he used. People don't get to make up their own definitions of words as they go along just to avoid the consequences of their usage of the word(s). The question is: Why is it offensive to use the term to refer to an inanimate object like a football team? The answer to that is: Replace it with any other dictionary-defined racist pejorative and ask if it would be considered socially acceptable. History and tradition are invalid arguments. We have a history and tradition of a lot of regrettable things. Slavery comes to mind. Would anyone argue history and tradition as valid reasons for continuing that tradition?

My entire point revolves around the broader question: What actual damages are done by the use of language some may possibly perceive as objectionable? Does the public interest of controlling that language outweigh the prohibitive value of a constitutional right to free expression? Who is really hurt by use of the word Redskins, or any other word for that matter? Words only have the power they are given. Individuals have a choice to use or not use language as they so choose. I use indigenous persons when referring to American Indians because I was advised that term is preferred. I'm not going out of my way to be offensive to the group of people most likely to find Redskins offensive but I'm also not going to stop using the term to refer to my football team unless or until the name changes. If the team name was that other word I'd feel the same way. But would everyone? Or is there a double standard when the racist pejorative in question refers to a race other than one's own?

Ultimately, it's just a name. The fight song, on the other hand ...

[FanofallthatisGibbs]

It's defined as such? Really, give me a break. There is extensive literature pointing to the original use of the term as a term of pride expressed by the very people it is supposed to offend. It was only the "white man"'s perversion of the term that ever insinuated racist thoughts. So by claiming it a racist term, you only embolden those who coined it as such - the white man. It really bothers me that so many ignorant people do not see this great irony in the debate.

Why let ignorant people dictate what a private organization can/can't do? This is NONE of the federal government's business. And if it is, we really do need to re-examine the use of far more language in our culture, in our media, etc. - a very slippery slope that takes us quite far off the path of freedom of speech.

[yupchagee]

lI think refusing to use "Redskins" just calls more attention to our name.

[FanofallthatisGibbs]

You think we're a laughing stock now, just wait until we're renamed the Red Clouds. FFS.

[tribeofjudah]

You know what I say.............?



HAIL TO THE REDSKINS

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

It's defined as such? Really, give me a break. There is extensive literature pointing to the original use of the term as a term of pride expressed by the very people it is supposed to offend.

Perhaps, but now they don't like it any more than Blacks like "Colored" or "Negro", both of which were once commonly used amongst Blacks. The racial epithet used for Blacks began as a benign Southern mispronunciation of the Spanish word "negro." It also became a pejorative later through commonality of usage by "White men" as a disparaging term. Times change. Attitudes change. And the term redskin has been a pejorative as long as the team has had the name. It didn't start recently. It's not rationally defensible to claim the term is not a racial slur. It specifically refers to a race of people by a physical characteristic.

I'll support the team as I always have no matter what it calls itself but I don't see how anyone can argue the term is not a racial slur in good conscience.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Context and intent.

If I call you a stupid spoon lover, then spoon is used as an insult and negatively. Does that make spoon a swear word?

Same with the "N" word even.. as a Term of endearment, it looses its intention to slander and belittle, and is no longer a "swear word".

I refer to my Redskins with pride, and don't even think about any kind of race when I use it.

Who are you (not literally) to tell me what my intent/ feeling is? Why can't I be offended you take offense, when non was INTENDED?

How'd we get here again? Lol

[Deadskins]

Your whole point revolves around the assumption that Redskins is a racist pejorative.

Redskins is a racist pejorative. It is defined as such. That's not up for debate here.

That's where you are wrong. Do you know when it was first listed as a pejorative by dictionaries? Words change meaning all the time. It's time for this one to be updated again, Do you know the history of the word itself? Why is it racist to refer to an American Indian as redskin, but not a person of European descent, white, or African descent, black? You said previously that no tribes support the name, but that's not true. There is great support for the team by local tribes. When we played Arizona last year, there were counter-protests by Indians supporting the name. There are schools on reservations that use the name and logo. A logo, that btw, was designed by, and put on the helmets at the behest of, American Indians. The state of Oklahoma needs to change it's name too. It means "Red People" in Choctaw. I'd say it is very much up for debate.

[SkinsJock]

I have always loved the great state of Oklahoma - even more so now ...

I just wish they'd drop that 'cowboys' racial epithet that they sometimes use ...

[riggofan]

OH man. We're in week 4 of actual football season and we're breaking out this tired old hat?

Save this nonsense for February.

[SkinsJock]

OH man. We're in week 4 of actual football season and we're breaking out this tired old hat?

Save this nonsense for February.

we need some levity here - tell you what - let's see some actual football on Sunday and I'll get more enthused about the possibilities this season has to offer - for now the name change and QB discussions are a distraction from the reality

[langleyparkjoe]

philly can eat a .... and choke on it

[StorminMormon86]

philly can eat a .... and choke on it

I second this.