StorminMormon86 wrote:Those camp reports about Cousins not establishing himself ahead of Griffin must have been waaay off.
The fact of the matter is --- if you are not actually there and within earshot of Gruden & the coaching staff, you really have no idea what is truly going on.
we all know that Griffin was the starting QB - why? don't say that Snyder made that call - the playing decisions are made by the HC ...
Why was RGIII named the starter in the offseason --- that is a very good question because looking at the film, there was no reason he should have been. The fact Gruden benched him sort of supports the fact he didn't want him to be. I think it was an arbitrary title given to a QB desperately looking for confidence. In all reality Gruden wanted an open QB competition --- and that is what it was. I don't think it is crazy to say he did it as a result of Danny or to appease Danny in some way after amassing a 4-12 record....
And yes, I think the specific decision to bench RGIII over this preseason was made by the HC.
Do I think that Danny is now all of a sudden a hands off owner????? The fact I am highly skeptical he will ever be hands off --- to put it mildly --- is a fair conclusion based on his history.
Last edited by markshark84 on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SkinsJock wrote:Gruden was letting all of us know that Griffin was the starting QB because he was the best QB of the 3 in Gruden's estimation - just answer that for me ...
Its almost like Gruden wasn't being completely honest or something. Weird.
Not really sure what you're expecting him to say, man. The team clearly went out there this offseason with the intention of giving RG3 every chance to show what he could do and win the starting job. I wouldn't expect the head coach to be anything less than positive during that time, at least publicly with the media. What would the point be of coming out every day in training camp and saying, "He's not doing well. He's not getting it. He's not the best guy in camp."?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
DEHog wrote:Well you and I obviously missed the obvious… Riggo wrote:
You could totally see back in April when Gruden went from having an open QB competition to suddenly naming Griffin the starter for no apparent reason that he was blinking out morse code with his eyelids. "T-H-I-S-I-S-B-U-L-L-S-H..."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I'm just as enthused as anyone about this season but I'm also pissed that it appears Dan Snyder is still obviously meddling ...
If Gruden saw what we saw and carried on with the charade then I'm pissed at him for not standing up and saying the obvious - "we did everything we could and the kid is obviously not going to be ready to start ..." that was what I was referring to
If Gruden had any guts he would stand up and say I'm putting the best guys out there - IF, he's saying what he needs to say - he's a pussy
we'll see what happens on the field - it will not be pretty if Snyder's still interfering
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
DEHog wrote:Well you and I obviously missed the obvious… Riggo wrote:
You could totally see back in April when Gruden went from having an open QB competition to suddenly naming Griffin the starter for no apparent reason that he was blinking out morse code with his eyelids. "T-H-I-S-I-S-B-U-L-L-S-H..."
I thought you might like that!! It's pretty clear to me...Snyder reminded Gruden that he was brought here to develop RG, and if he wasn't up to doing that he could look for work elsewhere. Then SM was able to talk Snyder into allowing Gruden to make the call, of course the owner is still involved...RG is still a (in my Gruden voice) Washington Redskins.
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
SkinsJock wrote:I'm just as enthused as anyone about this season but I'm also pissed that it appears Dan Snyder is still obviously meddling ...
If Gruden saw what we saw and carried on with the charade then I'm pissed at him for not standing up and saying the obvious - "we did everything we could and the kid is obviously not going to be ready to start ..." that was what I was referring to
If Gruden had any guts he would stand up and say I'm putting the best guys out there - IF, he's saying what he needs to say - he's a pussy
we'll see what happens on the field - it will not be pretty if Snyder's still interfering
Well I think Gruden would like to coach again in the NFL. I’m not sure how his contract is structured, but I’m sure he doesn’t want to do anything to put his guaranteed 20 mil in jeopardy.
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
SkinsJock wrote:If Gruden saw what we saw and carried on with the charade then I'm pissed at him for not standing up and saying the obvious - "we did everything we could and the kid is obviously not going to be ready to start ..." that was what I was referring to
I think that is what he did when he benched him, right? In the NFL words are pointless. What someone says in a presser is useless and shouldn't be taken seriously -- especially when it comes to an HC's opinion about how someone played or their expectations. I think you are putting more into the offseason starter anouncement than there should be. I don't think anyone thought that if RGIII came in and stunk it up (as he did) he'd be the week 1 starter (unless Danny got in the way).
SkinsJock wrote:If Gruden had any guts he would stand up and say I'm putting the best guys out there - IF, he's saying what he needs to say - he's a pussy
That's politics. People say things they literally don't believe themselves in press conferences and to the media. That is the way the NFL works. You say what is best for the team. If Gruden went out and said that RGIII was the worst QB he has ever coached --- that would hurt the team because it would reduce his trade value and hurt members of the team that are friends with RGIII. Gruden is in a precarious situation in that he has THREE bosses: Danny boy, Scot, and Bruce. He has to make all of them happy while winning. It is a messed up situation --- which is why this organization is a disaster. Regardless, in this league you have to watch what you say --- and that is why you can't trust a thing any of those guys say ---- it's what they DO.
just making the point - I was glad that Gruden got the job but I also thought that he'd help Griffin become a better QB because it seemed obvious to me after what we saw from Cousins that he was just a backup QB
I'm over all the BS - let's see what happens on the field ... I'll be rooting for the Redskins as usual ...
however, I think there's too much more needs to be done here ... I'll also be looking at Gruden and Cousins a little more closely ...
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Nervous, but can't wait to see how we do v. Miami this weekend. When's the pre-game thread getting started????
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
SkinsJock wrote:OS - I get it - I just don't understand how Gruden thought that Griffin was making enough progress that he was the starting QB a couple of weeks before the season - we all saw how bad he was doing - why did Gruden go along with that? that's the only question I have - please don't say that Dan Snyder or someone else was in charge - Gruden was letting all of us know that Griffin was the starting QB because he was the best QB of the 3 in Gruden's estimation - just answer that for me ...
For 5M a year I would yoddle dixie in a tutu everyday why people laughed me if that is what the guy playing me 5M a year wanted me to do and so would you. Gruden put out the company line and did everything he could to try to turn Dan Snyder's sows ear into a pocket passing silk purse but unfortunately it doesn't look like Robert has sufficient spatial intelligence to process fast enough despite all the reps and all the encouragement.
Maybe if he passes the concussion test he'll ge released and a team that runs the read option will pick him up and he can have a fresh start. I think with a 16M contingency contract Griffin is going to have recurring concussion issues until after he gets his 2016 Redskin payday and not pass it to 2017.
money cannot make me do anything - if that's the amount of integrity that Gruden has, too bad for him
I'm going to watch and see what happens - I will be amazed if Cousins can play QB at a high level - he's not that good
and I'll be watching to see if the Griffin payment happens as you say it will - $16M - I will not let you off the hook on that either
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
No rocket science. No need for inside info. Just a result of examining the FACTS.
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans for over a decade and a half. Stay away from football operations !!!
SkinsJock wrote:that's a BS answer - thanks for nothing
money cannot make me do anything - if that's the amount of integrity that Gruden has, too bad for him
I'm going to watch and see what happens - I will be amazed if Cousins can play QB at a high level - he's not that good
and I'll be watching to see if the Griffin payment happens as you say it will - $16M - I will not let you off the hook on that either
On Sports radio they were talking today about a split in the fan base that some folks are Redskin fans and some folks are RGIII fans. You are a prime example.
Maybe if we're surprised and Griffin passes a physical this year you'll be able to follow him with his next team.
I don't know if Cousins is better than McCoy, so much time was squandered on Griffin who is obviously miscast in a WCO that maybe McCoy and Cousins didn't get enough work with the ones to fairly assess which one is more effective, everyone can see they are both better than Griffin. Hopefully, the defense, special teams and rushing games come through this weekend because we know Kirk is good enough yet to win 40+ passing games. The fact they felt they had to throw it 27 in the first half against Baltimore isn't encouraging.
Ok, so C00ley was saying what he thinks will happen this year if Cousins gets hurt. He thinks Cousins will have a long leash, because they need to evaluate not only what they have in him, but other members of the offense (namely the new o-line). He also thinks that on gameday, McCoy will be the #2. If Cousins were to get hurt, McCoy would come in relief and play the remainder of the game. Because that's essentially what the "football people" in the building see him as. A good backup who can come in in relief and not screw up. But after that game, Griffin would resume the starters role. Which makes zero sense to me due to the whole injury risk thing.
markshark84 wrote:Gruden is in a precarious situation in that he has THREE bosses: Danny boy, Scot, and Bruce. He has to make all of them happy while winning.
He could do it just by winning.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
markshark84 wrote:Gruden is in a precarious situation in that he has THREE bosses: Danny boy, Scot, and Bruce. He has to make all of them happy while winning.
He could do it just by winning.
EXACTLY - Gruden took on this job knowing full well what was happening here and what difficulties he was going to have with both the owner and RG3 - all he needs to do is show improvement from a not so good first season as HC and for not doing whatever it took to help RG3 - he should have hired a QB guru from day 1 - this QB issue has dragged on for too long and while part of that is caused by Dan & Bruce, Jay Gruden should have handled this off season better - having Griffin stay on as the starting QB for as long as he did was a mistake
Gruden understands what is at stake here for his future as a HC, both here and elsewhere
FWIW - I'm a Redskins fan that thinks Griffin has not done as well as he's capable of ...
I'm hopeful for Cousins but I'm not sure that he can be much better than a backup QB
Last edited by SkinsJock on Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
markshark84 wrote:Gruden is in a precarious situation in that he has THREE bosses: Danny boy, Scot, and Bruce. He has to make all of them happy while winning.
He could do it just by winning.
That would be logical right?
Regardless you need the tools to win. Scot may be able to get him those moving forward, but with what Jay's got currently....
Then again, just ask Schott how that turned out for him......
If Marty didn't win enough games to keep his job and Shanahan couldn't win enough games to keep his job then why should we think Gruden will win enough games to keep his job?
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
OldSchool wrote:Griffin is going to get released when and if he passes the concussion test. I suspect he won't pass it until he gets the 16M, what is his incentive to pass it?
With all the bad things about Griffin (make a list) I think he is above playing the "I still can't concentrate" game for a year. In the event he tried it, I think the Redskins could prove as much to the satisfaction of the required party and release him in good health thereby avoiding the $16 M hit.
BTW - they WILL spend the money next year either way since all teams must essentially "cap out."
Agent's Take: How the Redskins can engineer a trade for RG3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
DarthMonk wrote: With all the bad things about Griffin (make a list) I think he is above playing the "I still can't concentrate" game for a year.
Agree 100%. RGIII comes form a military family and is a stand up guy. He wouldn't do that. He still believes he can compete in the NFL and wouldn't compromise that by milking the system.
So, is Shanahan, who allegedly had "full personnel control", saying he did not, in fact have full personnel control? Wouldn't he have started Cousins if he did? Also, Shanahan is no quarterback guru. He inherited Elway and the best he ever did with a quarterback he drafted was Jake Plummer.
“He was at that time the smartest player in the league. We did everything we could to try to eliminate him from the play. We knew if we didn’t neutralize him, then we had less of a chance of winning.” - John Hannah on Chris Hanburger
So, is Shanahan, who allegedly had "full personnel control", saying he did not, in fact have full personnel control? Wouldn't he have started Cousins if he did? Also, Shanahan is no quarterback guru. He inherited Elway and the best he ever did with a quarterback he drafted was Jake Plummer.
EXACTLY - Gruden took on this job knowing full well what was happening here and what difficulties he was going to have with both the owner and RG3 - all he needs to do is show improvement from a not so good first season as HC and for not doing whatever it took to help RG3 - he should have hired a QB guru from day 1 - this QB issue has dragged on for too long and while part of that is caused by Dan & Bruce, Jay Gruden should have handled this off season better - having Griffin stay on as the starting QB for as long as he did was a mistake
Gruden understands what is at stake here for his future as a HC, both here and elsewhere
FWIW - I'm a Redskins fan that thinks Griffin has not done as well as he's capable of ...
I'm hopeful for Cousins but I'm not sure that he can be much better than a backup QB.
Why isn't Griffin's failure Griffin's fault? Gruden is the second coach you have blamed for Robert Griffin's lack of fundamental QB skills such as reading defenses, calling protection changes correctly, moving within that pocket and quickly going through a route tree. If Griffin isn't motivated enough or smart enough in the way an NFL QB has to be after 4 NFL preseasons to be able to do these basic things why isn't it on Griffin? Why are these Shanny's and Gruden's failures instead of Griffin's?
Last edited by OldSchool on Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SkinsJock wrote:OS - I get it - I just don't understand how Gruden thought that Griffin was making enough progress that he was the starting QB a couple of weeks before the season - we all saw how bad he was doing - why did Gruden go along with that? that's the only question I have - please don't say that Dan Snyder or someone else was in charge - Gruden was letting all of us know that Griffin was the starting QB because he was the best QB of the 3 in Gruden's estimation - just answer that for me ...
For 5M a year I would yoddle dixie in a tutu everyday why people laughed me if that is what the guy playing me 5M a year wanted me to do and so would you. Gruden put out the company line and did everything he could to try to turn Dan Snyder's sows ear into a pocket passing silk purse but unfortunately it doesn't look like Robert has sufficient spatial intelligence to process fast enough despite all the reps and all the encouragement.
Maybe if he passes the concussion test he'll ge released and a team that runs the read option will pick him up and he can have a fresh start. I think with a 16M contingency contract Griffin is going to have recurring concussion issues until after he gets his 2016 Redskin payday and not pass it to 2017.
How do you fake an EEG?
Skins fan since '55
"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln
