Best Boxer of all time (haevyweight)

[John Manfreda]

Boxing has always had GREAT books and writers associated with it. Several of the books have turned into movies (Raging Bull by La Motta himself with other two writers; Cinderella Man by J. Schaap, etc). If your choice is Sugar Ray Robinson, maybe you know:

Pound for Pound
A Biography of Sugar Ray Robinson by H. Boyd and R. Robinson

Was Joe Louis the most revered heavyweight of all time? Historian Bert Sugar says yes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/classic/ ... id=2441173

One of the best sports writers this generation has -not- really gotten to know.

Boxing's Greatest Fighters is a well-written book by Bert Randolph Sugar. He also wrote about Archie Moore, M. Ali, and others but his best known work is his Boxing Encyclopedia.

Maybe his LEAST well known book and perhaps the MOST relevant in this board is:

I Hate the Dallas Cowboys : And Who Elected Them America's Team Anyway? by him as an editor published in 1997. Look it up. It contains the views of about a dozen players and a dozen writers about the Pukes and why they are the Pukes. Every Redskins fan should read it and it should be quoted in our Football 101 section.

Boxing and football have always attracted the minds of good old fashion great writers, the like of which seem sadly to be in true danger of extinction.

By the way, I stand behind Ali (among heavyweights) but nobody has mentioned the Irish-American John L. Sullivan and the first true African-American boxing legend Jack Johnson. A great documentary entitled
Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson was presented in PBS not too long ago. These two fighters deserve honourable mentions in the history of boxing.

I mentioned Jack JOhnson in my first post.

[BossHog]

"[He] will mean more to his people than any athlete before him. He is more than [first black major-league baseball player] Jackie Robinson was, because Robinson is the white man's hero. But Cassius is the black man's hero. Do you know why? Because the white press wanted him to lose [his heavyweight championship bout] ... because he is a Muslim. You notice nobody cares about the religion of other athletes. But their prejudice against Clay blinded them to his ability."- Malcolm X

Thomas Hauser's book on Ali (His Life and Times) is a great look into the life of Ali in the sixties and seventies.

For me there's no discussion... Ali is not only the greatest boxer, he is the greatest athlete of his century. He truly was, is, and always will be - the greatest.

To me anyway.

Now Clay swings with a right,
What a beautiful swing.
And the punch raises the bear,
Clear out of the ring.
Liston is still rising,
And the ref wears a frown.
For he can't start counting,
Till Sonny comes down.

[DarthMonk]

Not giving any money to either guy in the big one coming up but we may be seeing one of the best ever.

[welch]

Ali. Hit faster than anyone. Boxed and moved like Sugar Ray Robinson, but weighed 220 pounds. Long arms.

[HEROHAMO]

Ali is considered great for more reasons then just his boxing ability.

But this is a question of who is the greatest boxer of all time.


For me Tyson was the most unstoppable force. Only in his prime and with Cus D amato his father figure and trainer at his side. Once Cus died Tysons skills went downhill. Cus D amato was the brain and Tyson was a machine. For a few years he was simply a masterpiece a thing of beauty to behold.

Tyson in his prime was as fast if not faster then Ali. Tyson had middleweight speed and quickness. With heavyweight power. The fact that Tyson was 5-11 helped because he was a small target. He bobbed and weaved while Uppercutting which was devasting for opponents.

Dont be fooled by his matches vs Lewis or Holyfield. He had already been in and out of jail and had lost his passion for boxing. He no longer trained after Cus passed away.

WIth Tyson in the blink of an eye the fight could be over. Just like the Spinks fight which was supposed to be a superfight but lasted half of the first round I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJNOM8Gzelc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBz4Y0Oa9Vk

[SkinsJock]

Tyson would have been frustrated by Ali - there were a lot of good fighters but Ali was the greatest boxer in the heavyweight division

[DarthMonk]

Ali is considered great for more reasons then just his boxing ability.

But this is a question of who is the greatest boxer of all time.


For me Tyson was the most unstoppable force. Only in his prime and with Cus D amato his father figure and trainer at his side. Once Cus died Tysons skills went downhill. Cus D amato was the brain and Tyson was a machine. For a few years he was simply a masterpiece a thing of beauty to behold.

Tyson in his prime was as fast if not faster then Ali. Tyson had middleweight speed and quickness. With heavyweight power. The fact that Tyson was 5-11 helped because he was a small target. He bobbed and weaved while Uppercutting which was devasting for opponents.

Dont be fooled by his matches vs Lewis or Holyfield. He had already been in and out of jail and had lost his passion for boxing. He no longer trained after Cus passed away.

WIth Tyson in the blink of an eye the fight could be over. Just like the Spinks fight which was supposed to be a superfight but lasted half of the first round I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJNOM8Gzelc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBz4Y0Oa9Vk

I agree with what you say about Cus.

No way Tyson was faster than Ali.

IMO Ali in his prime cannot be hit by Tyson. Ali peppers his face and can't get close enough because a young Ali can stick and move all day. I won't be fooled by the late Tyson but don't be fooled by late Ali.

[Countertrey]

Ali is considered great for more reasons then just his boxing ability.

But this is a question of who is the greatest boxer of all time.


For me Tyson was the most unstoppable force. Only in his prime and with Cus D amato his father figure and trainer at his side. Once Cus died Tysons skills went downhill. Cus D amato was the brain and Tyson was a machine. For a few years he was simply a masterpiece a thing of beauty to behold.

Tyson in his prime was as fast if not faster then Ali. Tyson had middleweight speed and quickness. With heavyweight power. The fact that Tyson was 5-11 helped because he was a small target. He bobbed and weaved while Uppercutting which was devasting for opponents.

Dont be fooled by his matches vs Lewis or Holyfield. He had already been in and out of jail and had lost his passion for boxing. He no longer trained after Cus passed away.

WIth Tyson in the blink of an eye the fight could be over. Just like the Spinks fight which was supposed to be a superfight but lasted half of the first round I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJNOM8Gzelc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBz4Y0Oa9Vk

I agree with what you say about Cus.

No way Tyson was faster than Ali.

IMO Ali in his prime cannot be hit by Tyson. Ali peppers his face and can't get close enough because a young Ali can stick and move all day. I won't be fooled by the late Tyson but don't be fooled by late Ali.

... And, one more quality that MUST be factored in... NO ONE could take a punch like Ali. You couldn't hit him... And in the rare instance that you snuck one in... it did nothing...

[welch]

Ali. Too fast for anyone of his day. Like a middleweight who was 220 pounds.

[DarthMonk]

Ali is considered great for more reasons then just his boxing ability.

But this is a question of who is the greatest boxer of all time.


For me Tyson was the most unstoppable force. Only in his prime and with Cus D amato his father figure and trainer at his side. Once Cus died Tysons skills went downhill. Cus D amato was the brain and Tyson was a machine. For a few years he was simply a masterpiece a thing of beauty to behold.

Tyson in his prime was as fast if not faster then Ali. Tyson had middleweight speed and quickness. With heavyweight power. The fact that Tyson was 5-11 helped because he was a small target. He bobbed and weaved while Uppercutting which was devasting for opponents.

Dont be fooled by his matches vs Lewis or Holyfield. He had already been in and out of jail and had lost his passion for boxing. He no longer trained after Cus passed away.

WIth Tyson in the blink of an eye the fight could be over. Just like the Spinks fight which was supposed to be a superfight but lasted half of the first round I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJNOM8Gzelc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBz4Y0Oa9Vk

I agree with what you say about Cus.

No way Tyson was faster than Ali.

IMO Ali in his prime cannot be hit by Tyson. Ali peppers his face and can't get close enough because a young Ali can stick and move all day. I won't be fooled by the late Tyson but don't be fooled by late Ali.

... And, one more quality that MUST be factored in... NO ONE could take a punch like Ali. You couldn't hit him... And in the rare instance that you snuck one in... it did nothing...

Very underrated chin. Thanks.

If Tyson does not reach him in 3 rounds it's Ali by a knockout or, at worst, a dominating decision with Tyson being hospitalized.

The world missed Ali's prime. He was out of shape and made Frazier look very bad for several rounds. Legs gave out. Even still, Frazier was the worse for wear spending a month in the hospital afterwards.

Winning that first fight was a testament to Frazier's will. Ali literally beat his face to a pulp.

[welch]

Another thing about Ali...he was about 6 foot four and had long arms. He could hit someone -- Tyson, for instance -- two or three times and the opponent would not get close enough to hit back. I saw the second Frazier / Ali fight, and Ali pounded Frazier...Joe was too touch to get knocked out, but he sure got knocked around.

[Deadskins]

So, Marciano - Ali? Who wins? Decision or KO? What round?

[DarthMonk]

So, Marciano - Ali? Who wins? Decision or KO? What round?

GREAT stuff here:

Sim I saw on TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDP41oh7nN0

Alternate ending sim shown in case computer actually picked Ali - which it did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XKcGRREcaM

Ali talking about Rocky:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDaw2QFC1Qg

Rocky lost a lot of weight, got in good shape, and wore a toupee for the sim. They sparred 100 1-minute rounds and acted different knockdowns and stuff for the footage.

[Deadskins]

Good finds. I especially liked the Ali interview. He obviously had great respect for Rocky.

[DarthMonk]

Good finds. I especially liked the Ali interview. He obviously had great respect for Rocky.

Yes. Honest. Said his arms were very sore after the sparring. Admitted he might have lost to a young Rocky. Class act.

[redskinz4ever]

ALI .... ALI ..... ALI !!!!!

[Deadskins]

RIP Muhammad Ali, The Greatest, dead at 74
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/muha ... 74-n584776