Deadskins wrote:If RGIII never get's hit by Ngata, I think there is a very different take on his career.
Yeah I definitely wouldn't have predicted his career to have gone the way it has since the injury.
When I wrote that the team might be reluctant to draft Mariotta though I was talking more about taking a QB who has to transition from spread to pro style offense. I'm not sure how teams can judge whether guys will be able to make that switch or not.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
yupchagee wrote:Mariotta doesn't fit what Gruden wants to do.
I've seen you post this a few times, but I just have to ask: "Says who?" I'm not sure Mariotta looks like a scheme fit for Tampa or Tennessee either, but those teams are considering drafting him.
He played a spread offense in college, and he's going to have to learn to play a pro style offense pretty much anywhere he goes in the NFL. I'm not sure how the Redskins and Gruden are different from any other team in the league. I assume every team is looking at Mariotta's potential and making a decision on whether he can make the transition to a pro style offense or not, yeah?
I don't think they would draft him btw. I think they'll be too nervous about drafting RGIII II.
I don't know anything about the front offices of those teams. Gruden spent last year trying to force RGIII into his system. Other coaches may be more flexible.
Skins fan since '55
"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln
yupchagee wrote:I don't know anything about the front offices of those teams. Gruden spent last year trying to force RGIII into his system. Other coaches may be more flexible.
Yeah that's my point exactly. The issue isn't that Mariota doesn't fit Gruden's system. Its how likely is Gruden willing to work with a QB like Mariota given what he's currently going through with RGIII? Hard to blame him.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I have no basis for this but IMO Mariotta will benefit better because he will be better prepared by the coaches to play in the NFL and while I thought that Robert would adapt better than he did, he definitely was hurt by his first year in the NFL
IMO Robert's development from college QB to the NFL was hurt by not immediately being coached and prepared better by the Shanahans
I would not completely rule out these guys taking a talent like Mariotta and making him into a good NFL QB - not likely, but ...
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
To say that 1 of our starting receivers wont be here is just speculation......contracts can be restructured and the cap goes up every year. when talking BPA at the #5 position is splitting hairs by fractions of a point between a few prospects....so you CAN draft for need. I don't think our starting QB has what it takes. RG3 was having decision making problems last year. He isn't as smart as Brady, Rodgers or Brees....I don't think these wrs are a Calvin Johnson type caliber
5) TRADE! Cleveland Browns - Marcus Mariota (QB Oregon) Marcus Mariota 2015 NFL Draft I'm not saying this is necessarily what the Browns will do, even though there have been legitimate reports suggesting it might, but it's definitely what they should do! You can throw out all the cliches you want about building through the draft and conserving draft picks, but in the end we all know the NFL is a quarterbacks league; if you don't have a quarterback you aren't going win games, plain and simple. And based on what we saw from Johnny Manziel and Josh McCown last year I don't know how many games the Browns can even expect to be competitive in. I know Browns fans won't like our projected trade, but basically it comes down to Cleveland's willingness to give up the 19th pick. Would you be willing to give up a guy like Breshad Perriman or Jordan Phillips for Marcus Mariota? You know my answer!
That's what happens when blogs by Devante Parker's mom get picked up by Bleacher Report.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Countertrey wrote:That's what happens when blogs by Devante Parker's mom get picked up by Bleacher Report.
lol.
I'll just say its always interesting to look at these final mock drafts and compare to the actual results. Last year Kiper correctly predicted 4 of the top 10. McShay got 5 of the top 10 correct.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
riggofan wrote: .. its always interesting to look at these final mock drafts and compare to the actual results. Last year Kiper correctly predicted 4 of the top 10. McShay got 5 of the top 10 correct.
that's interesting - is it always that far off - these guys have reputations that would indicate better than that in the top 10 ...
maybe it's an indication also that there are a number of GMs whose franchises are not very successful because they don't draft well
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
riggofan wrote: .. its always interesting to look at these final mock drafts and compare to the actual results. Last year Kiper correctly predicted 4 of the top 10. McShay got 5 of the top 10 correct.
that's interesting - is it always that far off - these guys have reputations that would indicate better than that in the top 10 ...
Sometimes, not always. I noticed Kiper got the first six right in 2011. That's not bad!
Take a look at 2013. Kiper was 0/10 in the first round. McShay was like 2/10. Neither one correctly predicted the #1 pick which was kind of crazy. They made some really bad predictions that year too. Kiper had the Eagles taking Geno Smith at #4 (they took a LT instead). And McShay had the Bills taking Ryan Nassib at #8 (Nassib wasn't drafted until the fourth round.)
It seems like those guys are a lot better at judging team needs than for predicting which players those teams will like.
SkinsJock wrote:maybe it's an indication also that there are a number of GMs whose franchises are not very successful because they don't draft well
Probably more of an indication that these guys who put together mock drafts are making educated guesses at best. Completely talking out of their *** at worst.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Whether he's accurate or not in the end, I like Kiper's first three round choices for us today:
Round 1 (5) OLB Dante Fowler, Florida Round 2 (38) OT Cedric Ogbuehi, Texas A&M Round 3 (69) G A.J. Cann, South Carolina
Analysis: If there's been one thing that defines our defense in Washington over the past couple of seasons, it's been a lack of physical play up front and a ton of bad tackling pretty much everywhere. Fowler doesn't just bring the presence of a pass-rusher -- in reality, he still has a ways to go to be really good in that area -- he also is just a relentless battler up front, is versatile and is going to help us against the run, where we were simply awful last year. Combine him with the big bodies we've added in free agency and there's reason for optimism. Maybe we don't have certainty at the QB position, but adding Ogbuehi (a first-round talent available in Round 2 because of a knee injury) and Cann will help up front. In rebuilding this roster, my focus is on the trenches, and I think free agency and these picks start the process of improvement.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Really the only thing I dont want to happen is this.
Tampa picks Winston Tenn picks Mariota Jacksonville picks Williams Oakland picks Fowler
If the draft goes any way other than that then we either get the best overall player in the draft in Williams, one of the most dynamic OLBs to come out of the draft in recent history (minus jj watt) in Fowler, or trade bait for more picks in Mariota/Winston.
If it does go like the above, its a hard pick between Beasley or cooper/white to me, I think id go with cooper or white though.
Prowl33 wrote:Really the only thing I dont want to happen is this.
Tampa picks Winston Tenn picks Mariota Jacksonville picks Williams Oakland picks Fowler
If the draft goes any way other than that then we either get the best overall player in the draft in Williams, one of the most dynamic OLBs to come out of the draft in recent history (minus jj watt) in Fowler, or trade bait for more picks in Mariota/Winston.
If it does go like the above, its a hard pick between Beasley or cooper/white to me, I think id go with cooper or white though.
I'd probably pick Cooper in that scenario, too.
Is it just me, or does the top of this year's draft seem a lot more fluid and unpredictable than previous years? There are so many different ways this could play out. It's going to be fun.
I think Tennessee takes Williams - the other 3 franchises are likely to make a huge mistake like we would most likely do if we had the same guys in charge here that we've had for decades (well since 1999)
I don't think we'll take Fowler but Beasley looks promising
thank God there's only days to go
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:I think Tennessee takes Williams - the other 3 franchises are likely to make a huge mistake like we would most likely do if we had the same guys in charge here that we've had for decades (well since 1999)
I'm honestly not sure if Tennessee will Williams or Mariota. But I will very surprised if another team trades up to #2 to get Mariota. I just think there is too much history of that being a bad move.
SkinsJock wrote:I don't think we'll take Fowler but Beasley looks promising
Hmm. I like Beasley but I don't see any reason why we wouldn't take Fowler over him. Fowler could very easily be gone at #3 to Jacksonville.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I still think somehow our first pick is going to be o-line.
1) We made so many defensive moves in free agency. Rightly so. 2) We have so much invested in RGIII and really need him to be successful.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
the 5 best players in the draft are: L. Wliiams D. Fowler S. Ray K. White A. Cooper
if Mariotta makes it to 5 and we cannot trade the pick, I'd take 1 of these anyway
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
riggofan wrote:I still think somehow our first pick is going to be o-line.
1) We made so many defensive moves in free agency. Rightly so. 2) We have so much invested in RGIII and really need him to be successful.
Do you think an OL will be the BPA at 5? I don't.
I honestly don't know. Just looking at SkinsJock's list, how do I judge that WR Kevin White is a better football player than OL Brandon Scherff? Seriously how is Kevin White a better player than Scherff?
I think what you're talking about is "value".
Anyway, you'll note that I wrote "I still think somehow..." My guess is that the somehow will involve a trade down.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
riggofan wrote:I still think somehow our first pick is going to be o-line. 1) We made so many defensive moves in free agency. Rightly so. 2) We have so much invested in RGIII and really need him to be successful.
Do you think an OL will be the BPA at 5? I don't.
I don't think they take OL at 5, but I do think they'll be adding offensive linemen - they need to build that O line but they also will take 2 or 3 drafts to do that - it's not as important to have a good O line this season as it is to have a really good O line in 2017
Both White & Cooper will become good players and while Scherff will prove to be a good offensive lineman he's not as highly rated
the 'plan' is to take the BPA with each pick and to try and get as many picks in this and next year's draft as we can
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:I don't think they take OL at 5, but I do think they'll be adding offensive linemen - they need to build that O line but they also will take 2 or 3 drafts to do that - it's not as important to have a good O line this season as it is to have a really good O line in 2017
Guess we'll see. Nobody thought the Cowboys would be taking offensive line in the first round the past two years either. Seems to have been a smart investment nonetheless.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
riggofan wrote:I still think somehow our first pick is going to be o-line.
1) We made so many defensive moves in free agency. Rightly so. 2) We have so much invested in RGIII and really need him to be successful.
Do you think an OL will be the BPA at 5? I don't.
Kiper has him ranked the #6 player in the draft btw. Gil Brandt/NFL.com has him ranked #8. Its not really much of a reach.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
riggofan wrote:I still think somehow our first pick is going to be o-line.
1) We made so many defensive moves in free agency. Rightly so. 2) We have so much invested in RGIII and really need him to be successful.
Do you think an OL will be the BPA at 5? I don't.
Kiper has him ranked the #6 player in the draft btw. Gil Brandt/NFL.com has him ranked #8. Its not really much of a reach.
Kiper is no more accurate than you or I. Brandt is close to a talent evaluation God... but, the difference between 8 and 5 is a reach. He is clearly the best OL talent in this year's draft... but we should all be fully aware of what top 5 talent looks like... He is not it.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Sherff to me cant be worth a #5 pick if the talk is that he likely isnt good enough to play right tackle and instead well move inside to play guard. if we dropped to 10 or lower then I say go for it.
Beasley or Fowler seem like the 2 most likely choices for us at 5, followed by white or cooper.
Also a trade back could very well land us Landon Collins.
My ideal scenario is we trade back, pick up an extra 1st or 2nd this year, and I really want a 1st next year. Trading onto future years makes the most sense for us considering how many players we need, and the increased value we get from it.
