fredp45 wrote:I like Shelton a lot, and would have been fine with him at #5 - BEFORE Free Agency, however, after our 3 DL signing he's not our guy.
This best available ONLY is crap. I believe need enters into it too. I do agree with not reaching but if the best available every time we pick is a WR or CB - do we pick 7 guys who play 2 positions?
We have so many holes that you can't plug them all - with NTs. When our mock draft started a lot posters were hot for Collins, then it turned to Shelton. I was absolutely against Collins at #5. If we trade down, we could pick Collins (or a ROT). I could see Scot picking a NT later in the draft if he's shocked a great NT has dropped to the 4th, or wherever.
After this first week of free agency, Shelton is off our board. Scot has to get someone in the first round that starts and dominates. Shelton would certainly play but he'd be in a rotation with these new guys. That won't protect our QB or play free safety.
I couldn't disagree more. Drafting for need is very short-sighted, and what has gotten us into the situation we are in now. If the BPA is a WR or CB, then yes, you do pick the 7 guys at the two positions. The point is that, over the long run, say five years, these things level out and you have quality depth at all the positions. This is not a one year fix. Scot is taking the long view, and that is how you build a winning franchise, not a one and done kind of team.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
Deadskins wrote:I couldn't disagree more. Drafting for need is very short-sighted, and what has gotten us into the situation we are in now. If the BPA is a WR or CB, then yes, you do pick the 7 guys at the two positions. The point is that, over the long run, say five years, these things level out and you have quality depth at all the positions. This is not a one year fix. Scot is taking the long view, and that is how you build a winning franchise, not a one and done kind of team.
YES! YES! YES!
This is exactly how McGloughan explained it, and I hope the team allows him to implement this approach.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Your example of Tavaris Jackson, Flynn and Russell is too funny! Jackson is a career backup, at best. Scot probably knew that. He signed Flynn thinking he would start. He drafted Wilson as a backup to Flynn. It wasn't like he had Peyton on the squad...
Plus, using a 3rd rounder is way different than using a 5th pick in the draft.
fredp45 wrote: Plus, using a 3rd rounder is way different than using a 5th pick in the draft.
Yes. At number five overall we are way way way less likely to consider need at all. The goal here is a can't miss impact player regardless of position.
Last edited by DarthMonk on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fredp45 wrote:Without a doubt in my mind, a teams needs enters into putting together the best available list...a component without a doubt.
I almost agree with that, fred. You're sitting there at #5 and you have a couple quality players available that you like, I'm sure the teams absolutely do consider needs at that point. No reason it should just be a coin toss.
I just don't agree that the team signs a couple free agents and completely takes a player like Danny Shelton off their list. That's how you miss out on drafting great players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
fredp45 wrote:It's really rarely that a NT is worthy of a #5 pick...
Pass rushers, QB's and LOT...
Not really. BJ Raji and Dontari Poe are two NTs picked in just the last few years who probably would go in the top five if the first round for their year was redone.
WRs, DTs, and CBs can easily be worth top-five picks as well. Sometimes safeties, too. It's really more about athleticism and technical skill than the position the kid plays. The best players often end up at QB, LT, and DE, but they also play other places on the field.
fredp45 wrote:Without a doubt in my mind, a teams' needs enters into putting together the BPA 'list' ..
I almost agree with that, fred. You're sitting there at #5 and you have a couple quality players available that you like, I'm sure the teams absolutely do consider needs at that point. No reason it should just be a coin toss.
I just don't agree that the team signs a couple free agents and completely takes a player like Danny Shelton off their list. That's how you miss out on drafting great players.
TOTALLY agree - Scot & Jay are thinking long term not short term like most do - they will take any player they think will help
they also are not going to think like "we can't take a player at that position, that high ..."
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:TOTALLY agree - Scot & Jay are thinking long term not short term like most do - they will take any player they think will help
they also are not going to think like "we can't take a player at that position, that high ..."
Yeah man, your comment about short term v. long term is exactly right. We have to quit thinking about the draft as a way to address needs for this year. Its about stocking the team in the next 2 - 4 years.
Take WR for example. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to draft a WR this year. But in 2016, we'll have Garcon and DJax both at 30 years old and costing the team $20 million. If we were smart and drafted a quality WR this year - even in the second round - we're in much better shape, much better options on what we can do.
Not saying we should definitely draft a WR this year btw so don't start yelling at me. Just saying its not crazy to do it if you're getting a good player.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
SkinsJock wrote:TOTALLY agree - Scot & Jay are thinking long term not short term like most do - they will take any player they think will help
they also are not going to think like "we can't take a player at that position, that high ..."
Yeah man, your comment about short term v. long term is exactly right. We have to quit thinking about the draft as a way to address needs for this year. Its about stocking the team in the next 2 - 4 years.
Take WR for example. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to draft a WR this year. But in 2016, we'll have Garcon and DJax both at 30 years old and costing the team $20 million. If we were smart and drafted a quality WR this year - even in the second round - we're in much better shape, much better options on what we can do.
Not saying we should definitely draft a WR this year btw so don't start yelling at me. Just saying its not crazy to do it if you're getting a good player.
Right, and are you not going to draft Jerry Rice because you already have Charley Taylor, Art Monk, Randy Moss, and Calvin Johnson on your roster? You can never have too many great players, even if they are at the same position.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
SkinsJock wrote:TOTALLY agree - Scot & Jay are thinking long term not short term like most do - they will take any player they think will help - they also are not going to think like "we can't take a player at that position, that high ..."
Yeah man, your comment about short term v. long term is exactly right. We have to quit thinking about the draft as a way to address needs for this year. Its about stocking the team in the next 2 - 4 years.
Take WR for example. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to draft a WR this year. But in 2016, we'll have Garcon and DJax both at 30 years old and costing the team $20 million. If we were smart and drafted a quality WR this year - even in the second round - we're in much better shape, much better options on what we can do. Not saying we should definitely draft a WR this year btw so don't start yelling at me. Just saying its not crazy to do it if you're getting a good player.
Right, and are you not going to draft Jerry Rice because you already have Charley Taylor, Art Monk, Randy Moss, and Calvin Johnson on your roster? You can never have too many great players, even if they are at the same position.
that's a very good point and I understand that way of thinking - it's wrong of me to just look at who is here now ...
these guys have to look at each and every position not just as to who is here now but who will be here and still playing well in 3 years
again - like we've been saying - it's not about next season or 2016 - it's about 2017 ... at the earliest
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
While I agree that FA signings don't change Scott's board much, I think they may reveal something about his board. Signing a high price FA at a position may say something about how he see's this year's draft class at that position.
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yupchagee wrote:While I agree that FA signings don't change Scott's board much, I think they may reveal something about his board. Signing a high price FA at a position may say something about how he see's this year's draft class at that position.
Yesh. Dish. ^^^
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Hognostication Champion (2011, 2013, 2016)
Hognostibowl XII Champion (2017, 2018)
Scalp 'em, Swamp 'em, We will take 'em big score! Read 'em, Weep 'em Touchdown, We want heap more!
... as Terrance Knighton might ask... "what are you saying?"...
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Deadskins wrote:http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/blog/article-1/Seven-Things-Weve-Learned-About-Terrance-Knighton-This-Offseason/d180f743-2f50-4666-b0ef-0cca7f3fbbaa Good read.
Nice. We haven't ever had a true NT, so I am looking forward to seeing what Knighton can do for us. It's real cool that he's childhood buddies with Chris Baker, who is one of my favorite "blue collar" Redskins.
...........lol