So is John Clayton the mock draft "God".......? We shall see........
ESPN's John Clayton was on the Freddie Coleman show on ESPN Radio yesterday. The topic of discussion was the Eagles possibly trading up to land Oregon QB Marcus Mariota. According to Clayton, he thinks it's unlikely citing that the Eagles probably don't have the assets/wouldn't want to use the assets necessary to make that drastic a move. Clayton claimed the Eagles would have to trade into the top four to make that sort of a move. Wait... THE TOP FOUR?!
Why on Earth would the Eagles need to trade into the top four as opposed to trading with the Redskins at #5 or the Jets at #6?
"And honestly, don't discount, he's not going to fall to the Jets at six right now, the Redskins will take him at five," said Clayton. "At least Dan Snyder might not think there's quarterback issues, Jay Gruden and everyone else in the front office thinks there's quarterback issues."
"And if Marcus Mariota falls to five, it's not a position where they're desperate enough to trade up to get him, but if he falls to five, I'm telling you this right now, they'll take him."
Chip Kelly shoots down Marcus Mariota rumors Speaking Wednesday, Eagles GM/coach Chip Kelly emphatically said that the team isn't planning to trade up for Oregon QB Marcus Mariota. "Let's dispel that right now," Kelly said. "We will never mortgage our future to go up and get someone like that." Kelly said the Eagles have too many other needs to pay the draft-pick price it would take to acquire Mariota. Kelly, of course, didn't say what he'd do if Mariota fell to No. 20. We'd like to take Kelly's word as gospel, but there's no reason to completely believe anything an NFL general manager says this time of year. That said, most signs are now pointing to Sam Bradford being Philly's Week 1 starter.
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
“And honestly, don’t discount, he’s not going to fall to the Jets at six right now, the Redskins will take him at five,” said Clayton (via 247Sports). “At least Dan Snyder might not think there’s quarterback issues, Jay Gruden and everyone else in the front office thinks there’s quarterback issues.
“And if Marcus Mariota falls to five, it’s not a position where they’re desperate enough to trade up to get him, but if he falls to five, I’m telling you this right now, they’ll take him.”
Clayton is very well respected and when he says “I’m telling you this right now” you have to believe that he is not spouting wild speculation.
So, what’s going on here? There are a few possibilities:
—Scot McCloughan has seen enough film on Griffin to conclude that he won’t ever become an effective NFL quarterback. Gruden’s issues with Griffin are well known. The search for an alternative may be underway.
—They want to make sure that Griffin understands that he is not secure in his job despite Dan Snyder’s support. There is nothing like word that the newer version of you (Griffin was the 2011 Heisman winner) could be heading to town to take your job to snap you into reality.
—Regardless of whether they plan to take Mariota or not they have to make it look like they are willing to if they have designs on trading the pick. If Mariota is on the board and the Redskins are looking to deal the pick, the Eagles or whoever might want to make a deal has to believe that there is at least a chance that they will take him. Otherwise they will wait and make a deal with a team drafting later.
It could be some combination of these scenarios. As usual, stay tuned here to see how this unfolds. The draft is seven weeks from tomorrow and there will be plenty of talk and speculation between now and then.
Drafting a QB at #5 would be so stupid because the Skins have so many needs. Even if you think Griffin/Cousins are nothing more than placeholders it would be smarter to spend a couple of years developing a supporting cast before gambling on a QB pick.
1) Draft Mariota -- not feeling this one. We shouldn't put him or any of our qbs behind that Oline in passing downs.
2) Dredge up interest from qb needy teams that draft after 5 (Cleveland, Texans, Jets, etc..) to trade up -- I'm feeling this one. I'd even be okay with dropping one spot and getting a 3rd from Jets. Would love the Browns to give us 12 and either 19 in first or we have to, their 2nd rounder.
3) Get one of the qb needy teams to trade up to 2 or 3 to get Mariota -- I'm feeling this one too. This theory is complicated but I wonder if the Skins don't want Fowler (or Gregory) and don't want them going before 5. If we can ensure Mariota goes in top 4, as well as Winston & Williams we only have to worry about the Raiders. I've noticed they have NOT signed any WR in free agency, could this ensure they're definitely going WR with #4? If so, best pass rushing OLB falls to us... Far fetched?
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Sooo dont the Titans pick before us- whom jus had their stsrting qb retire?
Mariota dropping to #5 is silly imo. Someone will take gim or reach up- and take him and/or Winston.
I think that's a very good point. The Titans suddenly have a big QB need. I would think that's were Mariotta lands...... and it also hurts our ability to maximize what we'll get in draft picks when trading down.... teams tend to spend more when a QB is on the table.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Sooo dont the Titans pick before us- whom jus had their stsrting qb retire?
Mariota dropping to #5 is silly imo. Someone will take gim or reach up- and take him and/or Winston.
I think that's a very good point. The Titans suddenly have a big QB need. I would think that's were Mariotta lands...... and it also hurts our ability to maximize what we'll get in draft picks when trading down.... teams tend to spend more when a QB is on the table.
I don't know man. Anything is possible, but I haven't seen a mock draft all year that had Mariota going to the Titans. They apparently like Leonard Williams a lot (which isn't crazy at all). Jake Locker played what? Six games last year? He was hardly their "starting QB". It was assumed he was on his way out, not like they were banking on him before he retired. And they have Mettenberger who looked decent last year as a rookie.
The could take him if he blows them away in his private workout, but I just don't see Locker's retirement as having much bearing on this.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Another scout I spoke with said he’d take Mariota if he were the Redskins, saying he thought Mariota was better than Griffin -- not great, but someone you could win with. He did not think the Redskins would win with the quarterbacks on their roster. Another executive said he bought into the possibility because of how the Redskins' football side comes across in regards to Griffin, not because he knows the Redskins thoughts on Mariota. He also said he hasn’t heard anything about the Redskins shopping Griffin (whom they named their starter for 2015 and have given no indication he’s going anywhere). Finally, another coach wondered if the Redskins were just trying to stir up interest in their own draft pick. And he doubted the Redskins would make such a move, but obviously wasn’t sure. Certainly, there are mis-truths put out every year about the draft.
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Sooo dont the Titans pick before us- whom jus had their stsrting qb retire?
Mariota dropping to #5 is silly imo. Someone will take gim or reach up- and take him and/or Winston.
I think that's a very good point. The Titans suddenly have a big QB need. I would think that's were Mariotta lands...... and it also hurts our ability to maximize what we'll get in draft picks when trading down.... teams tend to spend more when a QB is on the table.
Frankly, this would be great for us... If we could get a shot at Williams... WIN!!!
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Another scout I spoke with said he’d take Mariota if he were the Redskins, saying he thought Mariota was better than Griffin -- not great, but someone you could win with. He did not think the Redskins would win with the quarterbacks on their roster. Another executive said he bought into the possibility because of how the Redskins' football side comes across in regards to Griffin, not because he knows the Redskins thoughts on Mariota. He also said he hasn’t heard anything about the Redskins shopping Griffin (whom they named their starter for 2015 and have given no indication he’s going anywhere). Finally, another coach wondered if the Redskins were just trying to stir up interest in their own draft pick. And he doubted the Redskins would make such a move, but obviously wasn’t sure. Certainly, there are mis-truths put out every year about the draft.
Big thing to me is, he may be an improvement, but I wouldnt take a QB any less than an andrew luck calibre player with our first pick this year. I dont believe in Griffin or Kirk at this point, but lets improve the o line, defense, and let our new assistants settle in, then next year im sure we will have a high enough pick to select from the top 3 qbs of the draft.
Prowl33 wrote:Big thing to me is, he may be an improvement, but I wouldnt take a QB any less than an andrew luck calibre player with our first pick this year. I dont believe in Griffin or Kirk at this point, but lets improve the o line, defense, and let our new assistants settle in, then next year im sure we will have a high enough pick to select from the top 3 qbs of the draft.
Connor Cook in 2016?
Honestly, I can't bring myself to get too worked up about this one way or the other. If McGloughan really, truly, honestly believes that Mariota is special and the team would be insane to pass him up, then by all means, he should go for it. We're all putting a lot of faith in McGloughan to come turn this team around. Whatever player he picks at #5 this year, I'm going to believe he knows what he is doing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Prowl33 wrote:Big thing to me is, he may be an improvement, but I wouldnt take a QB any less than an andrew luck calibre player with our first pick this year. I dont believe in Griffin or Kirk at this point, but lets improve the o line, defense, and let our new assistants settle in, then next year im sure we will have a high enough pick to select from the top 3 qbs of the draft.
Connor Cook in 2016?
Honestly, I can't bring myself to get too worked up about this one way or the other. If McGloughan really, truly, honestly believes that Mariota is special and the team would be insane to pass him up, then by all means, he should go for it. We're all putting a lot of faith in McGloughan to come turn this team around. Whatever player he picks at #5 this year, I'm going to believe he knows what he is doing.
It's a simple reality that the reputations of GM's and Head Coaches are directly tied to the success of their quarterbacks. There is, quite reasonably then, a natural desire to, in effect, not be tied to "someone else's" quarterback. Given that, I still believe that Scot is going to stay focused on the foundation. Mariota at 5 is within the realm of possibility... but is not likely. I still think it will be whatever player he has as BPA... And I doubt it's a quarterback (unless it's Winston).
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Sooo dont the Titans pick before us- whom jus had their stsrting qb retire?
Mariota dropping to #5 is silly imo. Someone will take gim or reach up- and take him and/or Winston.
I think that's a very good point. The Titans suddenly have a big QB need. I would think that's were Mariotta lands...... and it also hurts our ability to maximize what we'll get in draft picks when trading down.... teams tend to spend more when a QB is on the table.
I don't know man. Anything is possible, but I haven't seen a mock draft all year that had Mariota going to the Titans. They apparently like Leonard Williams a lot (which isn't crazy at all). Jake Locker played what? Six games last year? He was hardly their "starting QB". It was assumed he was on his way out, not like they were banking on him before he retired. And they have Mettenberger who looked decent last year as a rookie.
The could take him if he blows them away in his private workout, but I just don't see Locker's retirement as having much bearing on this.
By this logic, wouldn't we then be best served to trade out of the spot if he is available @ #5 and acquire more picks?? I mean if he cant impress the Titans brass enough to pull the trigger- that they'd rather roll with some project qbs (at best) instead; doesn't that mean he isn't the savior WE need either?
Im all for the next Brady.. or Luck. Right now we have two project qbs who have both shown glimpses of excellence, as well as stunk up the place. IMO we cant draft another qb high unless he is for sure 100% better then the guys we have. Neither of the top qbs in this draft have shown me that they are.
Last edited by cowboykillerzRGiii on Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
#21 forever in our hearts “I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley
QB would be a luxury pick.....Give RG3 the 1st 8 games and if not cutting it, play Cousins and see if either are worth extending....IF they want to take a QB this year.....Brent Hundley in rd2
riggofan wrote:I don't know man. Anything is possible, but I haven't seen a mock draft all year that had Mariota going to the Titans. They apparently like Leonard Williams a lot (which isn't crazy at all). Jake Locker played what? Six games last year? He was hardly their "starting QB". It was assumed he was on his way out, not like they were banking on him before he retired. And they have Mettenberger who looked decent last year as a rookie.
The could take him if he blows them away in his private workout, but I just don't see Locker's retirement as having much bearing on this.
By this logic, wouldn't we then be best served to trade out of the spot if he is available @ #5 and acquire more picks??
I don't know that the Titans have anything to do with what's in our best interests. But I definitely agree the Redskins should trade out of #5 if possible. No matter how good Mariota is, I personally think our team would be better served to be able to pick two or three players via a trade than just Mariota by himself.
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I mean if he cant impress the Titans brass enough to pull the trigger- that they'd rather roll with some project qbs (at best) instead; doesn't that mean he isn't the savior WE need either?
I'm not making any case that Mariota is a savior or the player we need. I'm saying I don't think its remotely a lock that the Titans want him.
Thought it was funny that you called Mettenberger a "project QB". He played as many games last year as either Cousins or RGIII. Care to guess how his numbers/results compared?
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Im all for the next Brady.. or Luck. Right now we have two project qbs who have both shown glimpses of excellence, as well as stunk up the place. IMO we cant draft another qb high unless he is for sure 100% better then the guys we have. Neither of the top qbs in this draft have shown me that they are.
I don't disagree with that other than your "both have shown glimpses of excellence". lol. Matt Flynn showed "glimpses of excellence". WTF does that matter? We need glimpses of consistency.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Ive watched that twice now. He says nothing to suggest that anyone in the organization says he is gone... just voices his own opinion.
I saw someone mention if someone offered the eagles a 1st round pick for Bradford, rg3 should easily be worth that or more based off their career stats... if a team offered us a 1st round pick for rg3 we would be dumb not to take it.
Ive watched that twice now. He says nothing to suggest that anyone in the organization says he is gone... just voices his own opinion.
I saw someone mention if someone offered the eagles a 1st round pick for Bradford, rg3 should easily be worth that or more based off their career stats... if a team offered us a 1st round pick for rg3 we would be dumb not to take it.
1: I think Chip was full of crap when he claimed that someone offered him a 1 for Bradford... There are LOTS of Philly minions who are not happy about some of the stuff he has pulled, and he wants to quiet them... 2: No one is offering us a 1 for Griffin at this point.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
I have no problem with what Scot & Jay are doing ... the key is to make this franchise successful again and while it would be great to win the NFC East this season, I think most of us KNOW that is certainly not happening ...
I'd be surprised but not shocked if they took Mariota - these guys are hoping all the hype with this draft is to their benefit - they understand that it's going to be unbelievable if we can be a playoff contender in 2017 at the earliest
this draft and the 2016 draft are critical for us - we need to be P A T I E N T
btw - having a great time in OZ and away from the weather in the Northeast ...
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
