Anointed RG3 to be starter 2015 (short leash)

[Deadskins]

Besides an average to subpar o-line, Griffin had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do we look at Griffin's problems as being on Griffin instead of blaming them elsewhere?

Besides an average to subpar o-line, Cousins had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do you look at Cousins' [turnover] problems as being on Cousins instead of inventing a conspiracy to shift the blame elsewhere?

Jesus, could you make it anymore obvious that you are a Griffin fan?

No one is excusing Cousins' turnovers. You get the tired, "he got his shot, he sucked" responses. With Griffin it's, "get him an o-line, a competent GM, cooler water in the Gatorade bottles, better head coach, QB coach, faster receivers, better blocking RB's, and a decent offensive coordinator". If you can't see the difference, you're one of the ones who still loves Griffin more than the team.

You couldn't be more wrong. But I'd say you hate Griffin more than you love the team. You keep making excuses for Cousins. "It's not fair," "he hasn't been given a chance," "the defense lost that game." I couldn't care less who the QB is, I'm just tired of people on here trying to make their case for Cousins by showing all of Griffin's faults, while not acknowledging any of Kirk's. Griffin didn't supplant Cousins as the starter, McCoy did. Cousins got himself benched, and even when Bob came back, he remained behind McCoy on the depth chart. But you don't want to deal with that reality. You'd rather say people are Griffin lovers, when they point this out.

PS Yes, I am a Griffin fan, just as I'm a Cousins fan, just as I'll be a McCoy fan if he re-signs with the team.

[DEHog]

Jesus, could you make it anymore obvious that you are a Griffin fan?

No one is excusing Cousins' turnovers. You get the tired, "he got his shot, he sucked" responses. With Griffin it's, "get him an o-line, a competent GM, cooler water in the Gatorade bottles, better head coach, QB coach, faster receivers, better blocking RB's, and a decent offensive coordinator". If you can't see the difference, you're one of the ones who still loves Griffin more than the team.

Yea funny how that works....Interesting to see this years QB draft prospects...One is a spread option guy...the other threw 18 picks...guess which one is going to be drafted first?

... And, how many games did he win?

Let's just pretend that has no relevance. There's Brett Favre throwing picks'-yet still kicking the crap out of the league... And then there's that whole universe of never-heard-from-again players throwing picks.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the QB's who won where the ones who had good teams around them. Never understood the W/L record for a QB in a team sport. My point is who do you think NFL coaches are looking at who will translate and be easier to coach up in the NFL??

[Deadskins]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the QB's who won where the ones who had good teams around them. Never understood the W/L record for a QB in a team sport. My point is who do you think NFL coaches are looking at who will translate and be easier to coach up in the NFL??

Turnovers are the stat closest linked to W/L record. INTs are a huge measuring stick to rate QBs by. Unless Cousins can get that under control, he will never be the QB his talent level would allow.

[OldSchool]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the QB's who won where the ones who had good teams around them. Never understood the W/L record for a QB in a team sport. My point is who do you think NFL coaches are looking at who will translate and be easier to coach up in the NFL??

Turnovers are the stat closest linked to W/L record. INTs are a huge measuring stick to rate QBs by. Unless Cousins can get that under control, he will never be the QB his talent level would allow.

Obviously Cousins needs to dramatically reduce the interceptions he had a terrible rash of them against the Giants and Arizona, really bad. I don't know if he can fix that but if he can and learn to close stronger in close games he'll be a winner because he really seems to have the rest of it done and looks like a natural running Gruden's offense. Can he do that if given a chance in 2015? I don't know but we aren't going to find out unless Griffin gets hurt again because Snyder told Gruden Griffin is his starter.

[DEHog]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the QB's who won where the ones who had good teams around them. Never understood the W/L record for a QB in a team sport. My point is who do you think NFL coaches are looking at who will translate and be easier to coach up in the NFL??

Turnovers are the stat closest linked to W/L record. INTs are a huge measuring stick to rate QBs by. Unless Cousins can get that under control, he will never be the QB his talent level would allow.

According to you there are QB's who can throw picks and still kick the crap out of the league...I'm guessing you think Cousins isn't one of those QB's??

[SkinsJock]

Interesting to see this years QB draft prospects ... One is a spread option guy ... the other threw 18 picks ... guess which one is going to be drafted first?

... And, how many games did he win? Let's just pretend that has no relevance. There's Brett Favre throwing picks and still kicking the crap out of the league ... And then there's that whole universe of never-heard-from-again players throwing picks.

good point 'trey

geez guys - we have 2 young QBs and IMO they both could turn out to be decent QBs - why is that a problem?

I don't understand why we have to be considered 'blind' when all we're hoping is that one of these 2 guys will work out as our QB ...

Hopefully Cousins sees that he's incredibly far ahead of Griffin as far as reading defenses and finding the open man is concerned - all he needs to do is find a way to stop throwing interceptions or it will not matter - he'll be gone

Hopefully Griffin finds a way to overcome all the obstacles that so many are convinced he cannot do and utilize his incredible talent and physical attributes to show that he's a really good NFL QB

I'm a Griffin supporter because I do not think he's really shown how good he can be ... Cousins may turn out to be more than just a good backup QB and Griffin may turn out to be a huge mistake ...

it's too early to know that yet - both these guys need to show up and try and become the best they can be

IF Cousins is mad or upset about this then that's on him - get out of here, we want guys that want to earn their roster spots

I do believe that Jay (the OC and the QB coach) will determine which QB is better - PLUS - we're better off with both, at this time




hopefully the Redskins fans that can't stand what's happening will go follow the Redskins' farm team - J-E-T-S, Jets, Jets, Jets

man there's a lot of hate for this kid - let's give him a chance - we need all the help we can get ...

This franchise could be a playoff contender in 2017 if 1 of these 2 QBs shows that they can be a really good NFL QB AND the FO rebuilds the offense and defense into decent units again

[SkinsJock]

just because I'm a Griffin fan does not mean I don't like Cousins

I hope that Griffin can be a good starting QB and I hope we can keep Cousins because we need a good backup QB

Apparently, Cousins throws interceptions because he thinks that gives his team the best chance at success - he needs to stop that

[DEHog]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the QB's who won where the ones who had good teams around them. Never understood the W/L record for a QB in a team sport. My point is who do you think NFL coaches are looking at who will translate and be easier to coach up in the NFL??

Turnovers are the stat closest linked to W/L record. INTs are a huge measuring stick to rate QBs by. Unless Cousins can get that under control, he will never be the QB his talent level would allow.

Yet teams are willing to draft a kid who threw 18 vs. the ACC...College wins don't translate to the next level most of the time...INT's on the other hand...

[markshark84]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the QB's who won where the ones who had good teams around them. Never understood the W/L record for a QB in a team sport. My point is who do you think NFL coaches are looking at who will translate and be easier to coach up in the NFL??

Turnovers are the stat closest linked to W/L record. INTs are a huge measuring stick to rate QBs by. Unless Cousins can get that under control, he will never be the QB his talent level would allow.

Obviously Cousins needs to dramatically reduce the interceptions he had a terrible rash of them against the Giants and Arizona, really bad. I don't know if he can fix that but if he can and learn to close stronger in close games he'll be a winner because he really seems to have the rest of it done and looks like a natural running Gruden's offense.

IMHO --- Here is the real question as a HC. Which would you think is more fixable:
- RGIII's inability to go thru progressions (ie, taking too much time in the pocket) in a timely manner to find open WRs as well as his poor pocket manueverability, or
- Cousins' tendency to force throws into INTs?

This is an honest question. And this is the way I would be looking at it if I were Gruden.

[DEHog]

Easy question…if only it was that simple!! I don’t think Gruden has the luxury of looking at it this way because I’m sure he convinced Snyder (when ask) that he could develop RG and to be honest if he said he could he should be held accountable. He gave up pretty quick on RG which really surprised me…how bad is he?? I’m sure Snyder reminds Gruden every chance he get that he agreed to develop RG. If I’m Gruden I would enlist SM to fight my battle, it won’t take long for SM to see RG’s shortcoming.

[Kilmer72]

Easy question…if only it was that simple!! I don’t think Gruden has the luxury of looking at it this way because I’m sure he convinced Snyder (when ask) that he could develop RG and to be honest if he said he could he should be held accountable. He gave up pretty quick on RG which really surprised me…how bad is he?? I’m sure Snyder reminds Gruden every chance he get that he agreed to develop RG. If I’m Gruden I would enlist SM to fight my battle, it won’t take long for SM to see RG’s shortcoming.

Exactly, and that is probably what he is doing right now. Unfortunately, I don't think we have the answer on this roster right now. If I was in control of the roster I would spend my energy fixing the rest of the mess first.

[DEHog]

Easy question…if only it was that simple!! I don’t think Gruden has the luxury of looking at it this way because I’m sure he convinced Snyder (when ask) that he could develop RG and to be honest if he said he could he should be held accountable. He gave up pretty quick on RG which really surprised me…how bad is he?? I’m sure Snyder reminds Gruden every chance he get that he agreed to develop RG. If I’m Gruden I would enlist SM to fight my battle, it won’t take long for SM to see RG’s shortcoming.

Exactly, and that is probably what he is doing right now. Unfortunately, I don't think we have the answer on this roster right now. If I was in control of the roster I would spend my energy fixing the rest of the mess first.

Agreed, may be the only way he can save his job??

[StorminMormon86]

You couldn't be more wrong. But I'd say you hate Griffin more than you love the team. You keep making excuses for Cousins. "It's not fair," "he hasn't been given a chance," "the defense lost that game." I couldn't care less who the QB is, I'm just tired of people on here trying to make their case for Cousins by showing all of Griffin's faults, while not acknowledging any of Kirk's. Griffin didn't supplant Cousins as the starter, McCoy did. Cousins got himself benched, and even when Bob came back, he remained behind McCoy on the depth chart. But you don't want to deal with that reality. You'd rather say people are Griffin lovers, when they point this out.

PS Yes, I am a Griffin fan, just as I'm a Cousins fan, just as I'll be a McCoy fan if he re-signs with the team.

You are dead wrong.

The excuses Griffin gets are not afforded to Cousins, who has only started 9 games. That's the whole point. Why are you quick to dismiss Cousins based off of a small sample size? I'm not making a case for Cousins...not at all. I have no idea if he's going to correct his interception issues. I'm not advocating for him to be named starter. I just want a honest and fair competition, and no more QB carousel. And if they stick with Griffin if he struggles again, we'll see a repeat of 2014 all over again.

And the ONLY way Cousins was holding on to that starter's job was if he at least went 7-1 or even 6-2 during the stretch of games Griffin missed.

[riggofan]

You are right in that Oline is not all of Roberts problems. You are wrong if you think the Oline is good enough.

I don't think the offensive line is remotely good enough to protect Robert Griffin III. I think they're probably good enough to protect Kirk Cousins, especially if they can upgrade the right guard and right tackle.

I mean Scot, Gruden and others know this. Certainly Morris knows this as well. What would it take for you to see that Oline is not just a small problem but huge?

I don't know that Scot or Gruden share that opinion at all and neither do you. You are just assuming that is the case. I'd like see one piece of evidence to support what you're saying.

I'm going to refer you to what Redskins' beat writer Rich Tandler wrote just five days ago:

This is going to make people mad so I’ll get it out of the way right off the bat—the coaching staff does not believe that the offensive line is the five-alarm dumpster fire that most fans seem to believe it is. Yes, there were too many sacks but the blame for many of them was on the quarterbacks, particularly Robert Griffin III and Colt McCoy, and the tight ends and running backs. As far as running the ball, they averaged 4.2 yards per carry, which is the NFL average.

http://realredskins.com/2015/02/15/need ... l-in-2015/

Let's see who the Redskins draft at #5 this spring. If what you're saying is correct, then there should be no doubt it will be an offensive lineman.

[Kilmer72]

You couldn't be more wrong. But I'd say you hate Griffin more than you love the team. You keep making excuses for Cousins. "It's not fair," "he hasn't been given a chance," "the defense lost that game." I couldn't care less who the QB is, I'm just tired of people on here trying to make their case for Cousins by showing all of Griffin's faults, while not acknowledging any of Kirk's. Griffin didn't supplant Cousins as the starter, McCoy did. Cousins got himself benched, and even when Bob came back, he remained behind McCoy on the depth chart. But you don't want to deal with that reality. You'd rather say people are Griffin lovers, when they point this out.

PS Yes, I am a Griffin fan, just as I'm a Cousins fan, just as I'll be a McCoy fan if he re-signs with the team.

You are dead wrong.

The excuses Griffin gets are not afforded to Cousins, who has only started 9 games. That's the whole point. Why are you quick to dismiss Cousins based off of a small sample size? I'm not making a case for Cousins...not at all. I have no idea if he's going to correct his interception issues. I'm not advocating for him to be named starter. I just want a honest and fair competition, and no more QB carousel. And if they stick with Griffin if he struggles again, we'll see a repeat of 2014 all over again.

And the ONLY way Cousins was holding on to that starter's job was if he at least went 7-1 or even 6-2 during the stretch of games Griffin missed.

[Kilmer72]

You are right in that Oline is not all of Roberts problems. You are wrong if you think the Oline is good enough.

I don't think the offensive line is remotely good enough to protect Robert Griffin III. I think they're probably good enough to protect Kirk Cousins, especially if they can upgrade the right guard and right tackle.

I mean Scot, Gruden and others know this. Certainly Morris knows this as well. What would it take for you to see that Oline is not just a small problem but huge?

I don't know that Scot or Gruden share that opinion at all and neither do you. You are just assuming that is the case. I'd like see one piece of evidence to support what you're saying.

I'm going to refer you to what Redskins' beat writer Rich Tandler wrote just five days ago:

This is going to make people mad so I’ll get it out of the way right off the bat—the coaching staff does not believe that the offensive line is the five-alarm dumpster fire that most fans seem to believe it is. Yes, there were too many sacks but the blame for many of them was on the quarterbacks, particularly Robert Griffin III and Colt McCoy, and the tight ends and running backs. As far as running the ball, they averaged 4.2 yards per carry, which is the NFL average.

http://realredskins.com/2015/02/15/need ... l-in-2015/

Let's see who the Redskins draft at #5 this spring. If what you're saying is correct, then there should be no doubt it will be an offensive lineman.

Well ok here is your one http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/v ... 83a289b145 I will try when I have time to go through all the archives even what Scot said.

[PulpExposure]

This pronouncement makes no sense, unless it's simply we're rolling into this year with the guy who was #1 at the end of last year. If that's the case, the conspiracy theorists amongst us can relax a bit.

If it's not; if RG3 is the starter just because he's the darling of the owner, well then we're in for a world of hurt. But what little we know doesn't really seem to bear that out. If RG3 was still seen as the darling of the franchise, he would have been listed in the letter to the fans as a core Redskin, wouldn't he?

Let's see who the Redskins draft at #5 this spring. If what you're saying is correct, then there should be no doubt it will be an offensive lineman.

I wouldn't use who they're drafting at 5 as a good data point, as there are a lot of glaring needs on this team, and the talent on offensive line isn't really there this year in the top 5. The top lineman, Scherff, looks like he's a guard. And you don't draft guards at 5.

[Kilmer72]

Glad you said that Pulp. I was going to but didn't want to be called on for pulling that out my @ss. I will still come up with the evidence when I get the time Scot mentioned when he was hired about how the trenches are won with big guys. It isn't like it used to be in the old days.

[riggofan]

Well ok here is your one http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/v ... 83a289b145 I will try when I have time to go through all the archives even what Scot said.

Did you even watch that clip? Video of Gruden commenting on how the line played vs. JJ Watts back in September? Not really sure what that has to do with how Gruden and McGloughan currently view the offensive line.

Anyway, I'm not here to defend the offensive line. I think its clear that Gruden at least wants to get bigger guys and get away from the zone blocking stuff that Shanahan built. I'm still sick of hearing that the line is to blame for RGIII's play this past year. That is demonstrably not the case and for some reason they're capable of protecting Kirk Cousins. I'd encourage you to check out this very detailed review of the Redskins' QB this year:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... rterbacks/

The play vs. Tampa that they break down in particular tells the story.

When Griffin reaches the top of his drop, his protection is perfect and he has all five receivers open. The Bucs defense gets it horribly wrong. The corners play far too shallow to the flat and the safeties are playing far too deep. Griffin shouldn’t even have to think about this play; he should instinctively know to throw one of the corner routes.

He is not comfortable as a pocket passer. I will be thrilled to see the Redskins improve the offensive line, but let's not kid ourselves that this is the key to fixing RGIII.

[yupchagee]

Well ok here is your one http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/v ... 83a289b145 I will try when I have time to go through all the archives even what Scot said.

Did you even watch that clip? Video of Gruden commenting on how the line played vs. JJ Watts back in September? Not really sure what that has to do with how Gruden and McGloughan currently view the offensive line.

Anyway, I'm not here to defend the offensive line. I think its clear that Gruden at least wants to get bigger guys and get away from the zone blocking stuff that Shanahan built. I'm still sick of hearing that the line is to blame for RGIII's play this past year. That is demonstrably not the case and for some reason they're capable of protecting Kirk Cousins. I'd encourage you to check ut this very detailed review of the Redskins' QB this year:es
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... rterbacks/

The play vs. Tampa that they break down in particular tells the story.

When Griffin reaches the top of his drop, his protection is perfect and he has all five receivers open. The Bucs defense gets it horribly wrong. The corners play far too shallow to the flat and the safeties are playing far too deep. Griffin shouldn’t even have to think about this play; he should instinctively know to throw one of the corner routes.

He is not comfortable as a pocket passer. I will be thrilled to see the Redskins improve the offensive line, but let's not kid ourselves that this is the key to fixing RGIII.

I think the key to fixing RGIII is to use what he does best. I'm not saying read option all the time. I'm saying have him on the move. Roll outs, moving pockets etc.

[riggofan]

I think the key to fixing RGIII is to use what he does best. I'm not saying read option all the time. I'm saying have him on the move. Roll outs, moving pockets etc.

lol. You mean all of the stuff he told Shanahan he wouldn't do anymore I think!

[Kilmer72]

Well ok here is your one http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/v ... 83a289b145 I will try when I have time to go through all the archives even what Scot said.

Did you even watch that clip? Video of Gruden commenting on how the line played vs. JJ Watts back in September? Not really sure what that has to do with how Gruden and McGloughan currently view the offensive line.

Anyway, I'm not here to defend the offensive line. I think its clear that Gruden at least wants to get bigger guys and get away from the zone blocking stuff that Shanahan built. I'm still sick of hearing that the line is to blame for RGIII's play this past year. That is demonstrably not the case and for some reason they're capable of protecting Kirk Cousins. I'd encourage you to check out this very detailed review of the Redskins' QB this year:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... rterbacks/

The play vs. Tampa that they break down in particular tells the story.

When Griffin reaches the top of his drop, his protection is perfect and he has all five receivers open. The Bucs defense gets it horribly wrong. The corners play far too shallow to the flat and the safeties are playing far too deep. Griffin shouldn’t even have to think about this play; he should instinctively know to throw one of the corner routes.

He is not comfortable as a pocket passer. I will be thrilled to see the Redskins improve the offensive line, but let's not kid ourselves that this is the key to fixing RGIII.

And I understand if the first week is noconclusive for you. Going by your link

As the pocket collapses, Griffin remains calm, stepping into his throw despite the pressure around him.

I never said that all of Roberts woes were from the Oline. I said that is the common denominator for all the problems with them all. I guess you do not remember Cousins and Colt getting sacked rushed into interceptions..Oh and as well with Robert and the others sack fumble lost!!!

[Kilmer72]

I think the key to fixing RGIII is to use what he does best. I'm not saying read option all the time. I'm saying have him on the move. Roll outs, moving pockets etc.

lol. You mean all of the stuff he told Shanahan he wouldn't do anymore I think!

This is something else too. I don't think it should have mattered to Mike what Robert wanted. I do not remember the pocket containing for a planned roll out. Maybe it happened all the time but I don't remember it. I remember screaming at the TV why don't they roll out and even for Cousins.

[SkinsJock]

I really think that the franchise has many needs and I wouldn't classify any area of need as being more important than just building a team

I understand that you 'normally' don't take a guard at 5 - if that guard happens to be good enough in Scot and Jay's mind you take him

hopefully these guys have a plan and the guys/scouts/talent evaluators in place to make it work

it's not happening with 1 draft - we also are not looking to make this thing be perfect by opening day in 2015 like we always used to

we (the franchise) needs to find out what they really have with Cousins and Griffin but that does not need to be known right now



we need to address many areas of the defense and make the O line into a unit that fits what Jay wants to run here

hopefully these guys prove that they are on the right track and Snyder gives them the time to get things together

we could have a good unit on the field by the beginning of 2017 and by then we'll have found our starting QB

Griffin being 'named' the starting QB at this time means nothing if after a couple of days of practice he does not show anything ...

Cousins will get a chance to show his stuff as well and if he still throws it to the wrong guys, he's gone as well

I'm out of here

[riggofan]

I never said that all of Roberts woes were from the Oline. I said that is the common denominator for all the problems with them all. I guess you do not remember Cousins and Colt getting sacked rushed into interceptions..Oh and as well with Robert and the others sack fumble lost!!!

2014 Percentage of Time Sacked when Attempting to Pass
Cousins 3.8%
Griffin 13.4%

"Cousins was also part of a small group of quarterbacks who attempted at least 200 passes this season but had a sack percentage that was at least 20 percent above league average: Nick Foles, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco, Tom Brady, Derek Carr and Carlson Palmer."

I'm sorry man but that is "good enough" protection from the offensive line. I'll eagerly await your reply describing how it was the offensive line's fault that Kirk threw nine interceptions.

Anyway, Kilmer, we're in complete agreement that the line can be improved. I'll be happy as hell if Scherff is the #5 pick, and I love that the team is moving towards bigger linemen. Bring it on.