Posting in the Cowboyzone

[TexasCowboy]

[DEHog]

Wrong...As DM said Shields actually tips the ball before Dez gets his hands on the ball…so he did not have control on the first step.
So Dez’s football move was to fall down over the goal line? Why not just run across the goal line?

[TexasCowboy]

Wrong...As DM said Shields actually tips the ball before Dez gets his hands on the ball…so he did not have control on the first step
So Dez’s football move was to fall down over the goal line? Why not just run across the goal line?

Ah the oh so blind

watch it again



Dez actually has 2 hands on it, then it is slightly tipped, once he has it?
1 foot is on the ground, followed by the next foot that is when he takes
2 steps and falls over the defender.

clearly he was reaching for the goal line, but..once his knee was
down, he is not longer allowed to try and advance the ball

So the ruling needed to be a catch but down by contact
not a incomplete pass

[Deadskins]

You can't see that the ball comes loose when Shields hit it, before Dez regains control?

[Countertrey]

Wrong...As DM said Shields actually tips the ball before Dez gets his hands on the ball…so he did not have control on the first step.
So Dez’s football move was to fall down over the goal line? Why not just run across the goal line?

LOL the ball was never tipped at all..



Shields reached for it but Dez had all ready gotten possession of it

bottom line

Your all out of excuses admit you are wrong and move on

When I look at the box score, and play by play, it says "incomplete".
Agree... Bottom line... Incomplete. Move on. LOL

[TexasCowboy]

When I look at the box score, and play by play, it says "incomplete".
Agree... Bottom line... Incomplete. Move on. LOL

Not incomplete go back and read my edited post

[Deadskins]

When I look at the box score, and play by play, it says "incomplete".
Agree... Bottom line... Incomplete. Move on. LOL

Not incomplete go back and read my edited post

No need to, the play was ruled incomplete (and rightly so) over a month ago. Get over it already.

[DEHog]

Dez Bryant

as I went to the ground I rolled over and I tipped the ball to gain better control.. We lost and I accept it but please change that rule

From the horses mouth!! Why would Dez want the rule changed if it was a legit catch?

P.S. I agree with Dez!

[TexasCowboy]

Dez Bryant

as I went to the ground I rolled over and I tipped the ball to gain better control.. We lost and I accept it but please change that rule

From the horses mouth!! Why would Dez want the rule changed if it was a legit catch?

P.S. I agree with Dez!

let's clarify

* Dez is a WR when he lines up opposite of a defender

* upon making a catch, he then becomes a carrier as
liken unto a RB till contact is made
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Once his knee is down, he can not advance the ball, and at
that point the play is dead..(agreed?)

so the fact he rolled over, attempted to stretch is moot at
this point
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, to address his comment bout losing

* Dallas did not lose because of the officials
failure to call it right

Dallas lost...

because coaching from the sidelines
86'd the run game they were having
success with

Opting to flex muscles and prove they
can put up big points through the air
(see Washington game)

had he scored? the defense was long
past tired, out of depth and pretty
much done for

GB just needed a FG to win barring
the defense found 1 more way to
force a turnover

this does not dismiss the officials
failure to get it right, and so let's
just end this

You believe what you like
and we are through

[Deadskins]

Dez Bryant

as I went to the ground I rolled over and I tipped the ball to gain better control.. We lost and I accept it but please change that rule

From the horses mouth!! Why would Dez want the rule changed if it was a legit catch?

P.S. I agree with Dez!

let's clarify

* Dez is a WR when he lines up opposite of a defender

* upon making a catch, he then becomes a carrier as
liken unto a RB till contact is made

No, your second point is incorrect. Just catching the ball does NOT make you a RB immediately. First, you have to maintain posession while establishing two feet (or any other body part) in bounds, and (this is the important part) if you are going to the ground while making the catch, you must maintain posession throughout that act. Clearly Dez did not, and knows he did not. You are the only living person on the planet who still disputes this fact.

[TexasCowboy]

I said liken unto I am not claiming he becomes a RB, I am claiming
he is a carrier of the football..the same way a QB who holds onto
the ball and carries it is liken unto a RB

and down by contact applies to all players, not just RB's (all)
the rule is clear

But as I said before just end this, cause in the end
neither will see either's side and to carry this to a
50 page thread is totally pointless

[Deadskins]

I said liken unto I am not claiming he becomes a RB, I am claiming
he is a carrier of the football..the same way a QB who holds onto
the ball and carries it is liken unto a RB

Obviously, but that is semantics, and not germaine to the point that just making the grab doesn't immediately make you a carrier.

[DarthMonk]

Wrong...As DM said Shields actually tips the ball before Dez gets his hands on the ball…so he did not have control on the first step
So Dez’s football move was to fall down over the goal line? Why not just run across the goal line?

Ah the oh so blind

watch it again



Dez actually has 2 hands on it, then it is slightly tipped, once he has it?
1 foot is on the ground, followed by the next foot that is when he takes
2 steps and falls over the defender.

clearly he was reaching for the goal line, but..once his knee was
down, he is not longer allowed to try and advance the ball

So the ruling needed to be a catch but down by contact
not a incomplete pass

Yay!!

[DarthMonk]

Dez Bryant

as I went to the ground I rolled over and I tipped the ball to gain better control.. We lost and I accept it but please change that rule

From the horses mouth!! Why would Dez want the rule changed if it was a legit catch?

P.S. I agree with Dez!

let's clarify

* Dez is a WR when he lines up opposite of a defender

* upon making a catch, he then becomes a carrier as
liken unto a RB till contact is made
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Once his knee is down, he can not advance the ball, and at
that point the play is dead..(agreed?)

so the fact he rolled over, attempted to stretch is moot at
this point
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, to address his comment bout losing

* Dallas did not lose because of the officials
failure to call it right

Dallas lost...

because coaching from the sidelines
86'd the run game they were having
success with

Opting to flex muscles and prove they
can put up big points through the air
(see Washington game)

had he scored? the defense was long
past tired, out of depth and pretty
much done for

GB just needed a FG to win barring
the defense found 1 more way to
force a turnover

this does not dismiss the officials
failure to get it right, and so let's
just end this

You believe what you like
and we are through

Key phrase and something Dez never does ... even he says so. This is your cart before your "knee down" horse.

[DarthMonk]

I said liken unto I am not claiming he becomes a RB, I am claiming
he is a carrier of the football..the same way a QB who holds onto
the ball and carries it is liken unto a RB

and down by contact applies to all players, not just RB's (all)
the rule is clear

But as I said before just end this, cause in the end
neither will see either's side and to carry this to a
50 page thread is totally pointless

Again, you made him a "carrier of the bal" before he has secured a reception. Since he never completed the catch all that pertains to "ball carriers" is irrelevant. You even said he fell during second step. That means he's going to the ground during the catch. Dez gets it, the DB gets it (after seeing the replay), but one guy knows the rules better than ALL THE REFS AND DEZ. Good one.

[DarthMonk]

You can't see that the ball comes loose when Shields hit it, before Dez regains control?

He

1 is either blind,

2 a liar,

3 didn't watch what happens between Dez high pointing the ball and pulling it to his chest,

4 or some combination of the above.

He also does not realize that regardless, all the things he points out occur WHILE his boy is FALLING even though he himself said Dez fell during his second step.

He also said the ball never hit the ground and that it never came completely loose.

At this point I have to conclude pathological denial.

[TexasCowboy]

I love that people who claim to know "football"

have a hard time distinguishing between college
rules where there is no down by contact rule
and the NFL that does have a down by contact
rule

A player is considered down when either a: His forward progress stops or b: any part of his body other than his foot or hand touches the ground AND he is touched by a player of an opposing team.

2 elbows, 2 knees both on the turf maybe not at the same time,
and doesn't have to be...can not advance a ball or make any kind
of a move

the ref standing right in front of the play, made the right call
a completed pass, and there should not have been a challenge
from another official on the other side of the field

Who???? was not in position at the time, if there were to
be a challenge, the back judge, would need to make that
call not anyone else

[DarthMonk]

I love that people who claim to know "football"

have a hard time distinguishing between college
rules where there is no down by contact rule
and the NFL that does have a down by contact
rule

A player is considered down when either a: His forward progress stops or b: any part of his body other than his foot or hand touches the ground AND he is touched by a player of an opposing team.

2 elbows, 2 knees both on the turf maybe not at the same time,
and doesn't have to be...can not advance a ball or make any kind
of a move

the ref standing right in front of the play, made the right call
a completed pass, and there should not have been a challenge
from another official on the other side of the field

Who???? was not in position at the time, if there were to
be a challenge, the back judge, would need to make that
call not anyone else

Not trying to be snarky AT ALL - just clear.

It WAS amazing to me that you could keep putting the knee cart before the possession horse but not any more.

You also do not seem to realize that NO REF CHALLENGED THIS. The Green Bay coach did. Afterwards, EVERY REF I'VE SEEN QUOTED AGREES THE RULING OF INCOMPLETE WAS CORRECT.

Dez himself says he disagrees with the rule, not the decision.

Your only possible argument is that Dez took two steps and AFTER THAT, STARTED to fall.

You CAN make THAT argument but if you do not see that it is, in fact, your only argument, then you hopelessly misunderstand the rule the refs applied.

The play where a ref from far away persuaded another ref on the scene to change his mind was a pass interference call against the Cowboys in the Lion game. You might be thinking of that. On that play, a line judge responsible for calling things like encroachment ran 30 yards to tell a back judge 2 yards away that he did not see pass interference.

Do you understand that when the falling began is crucial?

[Deadskins]

You can't see that the ball comes loose when Shields hit it, before Dez regains control?

He

1 is either blind,

2 a liar,

3 didn't watch what happens between Dez high pointing the ball and pulling it to his chest,

4 or some combination of the above.

He also does not realize that regardless, all the things he points out occur WHILE his boy is FALLING even though he himself said Dez fell during his second step.

He also said the ball never hit the ground and that it never came completely loose.

At this point I have to conclude pathological denial.

He also thinks I am a Smeagols fan.
Just one more thing he is completely wrong on.

[TexasCowboy]

I love that people who claim to know "football"

have a hard time distinguishing between college
rules where there is no down by contact rule
and the NFL that does have a down by contact
rule

A player is considered down when either a: His forward progress stops or b: any part of his body other than his foot or hand touches the ground AND he is touched by a player of an opposing team.

2 elbows, 2 knees both on the turf maybe not at the same time,
and doesn't have to be...can not advance a ball or make any kind
of a move

the ref standing right in front of the play, made the right call
a completed pass, and there should not have been a challenge
from another official on the other side of the field

Who???? was not in position at the time, if there were to
be a challenge, the back judge, would need to make that
call not anyone else

Not trying to be snarky AT ALL - just clear.

It WAS amazing to me that you could keep putting the knee cart before the possession horse but not any more.

You also do not seem to realize that NO REF CHALLENGED THIS. The Green Bay coach did. Afterwards, EVERY REF I'VE SEEN QUOTED AGREES THE RULING OF INCOMPLETE WAS CORRECT.

Dez himself says he disagrees with the rule, not the decision.

Your only possible argument is that Dez took two steps and AFTER THAT, STARTED to fall.

You CAN make THAT argument but if you do not see that it is, in fact, your only argument, then you hopelessly misunderstand the rule the refs applied.

The play where a ref from far away persuaded another ref on the scene to change his mind was a pass interference call against the Cowboys in the Lion game. You might be thinking of that. On that play, a line judge responsible for calling things like encroachment ran 30 yards to tell a back judge 2 yards away that he did not see pass interference.

Do you understand that when the falling began is crucial?

the fall did not arrest the receiver from securing 2 hands on it
and pulling it down to a secure position - end

in being tipped for a momentary lapse, the receiver was able
to secured the ball - end

As long as Dez manages to have the ball secured he is allowed
to fall or make a play towards the sidelines or even the goal line
- end

but once his elbows or knees not his hands hits the turf
or he makes contact with a opposing player he is down - end

let's look at it again in real time



Romo's pass is in the air, placed perfectly where Bryant needs to be..in order to catch it,
Bryant leaps up, places 2 hands on the ball, has it tipped for a second,

Keep watching

his hands open for a split second, the ball is still in play at this point...Dez then secures
it..one foot comes down, the second foot? is now entangled with the defenders leg who
is trying to jar the ball free

The defender falls and Dez is not able at that point..to leap over him and extend or
run out of bounds stopping the clock

he is also? not able to extend or run towards the goaline to make the score, he
came down short of the goaline, his knee and elbow makes contact with the turf
before the ball appears to spring up

The ball? only wiggles free into his fore arm and elbow making contact with
his face mask after the fact
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conclusion?

* completed pass, bad call, you got it wrong

[Deadskins]

The ball? only wiggles free into his fore arm and elbow making contact with
his face mask after the fact
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conclusion?

* completed pass, bad call, you got it wrong

Dude, the rule is what it is. That the ball wiggles free is all that matters. It wiggling free means he did not maintain possession. Conclusive conclusion? Incomplete pass, good call, you got it wrong.

[DarthMonk]

Dear TexasCowboy:

Do you understand that it matters WHEN THE FALLING BEGAN ??

If you do not think it matters WHEN THE FALLING BEGAN, please say so.

[TexasCowboy]

The ball? only wiggles free into his fore arm and elbow making contact with
his face mask after the fact
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conclusion?

* completed pass, bad call, you got it wrong

Dude, the rule is what it is. That the ball wiggles free is all that matters. It wiggling free means he did not maintain possession. Conclusive conclusion? Incomplete pass, good call, you got it wrong.

Once again we ignore the reality and focus on the delusion

* If the ball is coming free before he hits the turf, he is not
maintaining possession.

that didn't happen

* if the ball while falling to the ground first hits the ground
before he secures it then it is incomplete

Again that did not happen

* if during the tipping of the pass out of the receivers
hands the defender knocks it free - incomplete pass

Not what happened

he went down with 1 knee, 2 elbows and clear contact
with the defender

There is no continuation after the fact....he is down
and the play ends

so once again

I got it right it is a complete pass and the refs
who are supposed to know the rules, clearly need
to go back and get reeducated

or perhaps? simply disqualify themselves from
officials duties, due to the fact? they are on the
take from sources they aren't allowed to name

[DarthMonk]

Dear TexasCowboy:

Do you understand that it matters WHEN THE FALLING BEGAN ??

If you do not think it matters WHEN THE FALLING BEGAN, please say so.

[Deadskins]

* If the ball is coming free before he hits the turf, he is not
maintaining possession.

I think I see the issue. What you don't understand is that the rule clearly states, that he must maintain possession AFTER HE HITS THE TURF also. He did not do this, hence the correct incomplete call.
/thread