Giants vs Redskins - Postgame Thread

[DarthMonk]

Running out the clock with over 1:30 to go was inexcusable.

Washington Redskins at 02:28
1-10-WAS18 (2:28) (Shotgun) R.Griffin pass short middle to P.Garcon to WAS 23 for 5 yards (Q.Demps).
2-5-WAS23 (2:05) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Griffin pass short left to C.Thompson to WAS 32 for 9 yards (D.Rodgers-Cromartie).
1-10-WAS32 (1:56) (Shotgun) R.Griffin pass short right to D.Jackson to WAS 38 for 6 yards (M.Harris).
2-4-WAS38 (1:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Griffin sacked at WAS 34 for -4 yards (J.Hankins).
3-8-WAS34 (1:08) (No Huddle, Shotgun) C.Thompson up the middle to WAS 33 for -1 yards (J.Hankins, K.Wynn).
4-9-WAS33
(:23) (No Huddle, Shotgun) PENALTY on WAS-R.Griffin, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at WAS 33 - No Play.
4-14-WAS28 (:20) T.Way punts ...


whimper

[StorminMormon86]

Gruden said that he thought Griffin was hurt, and since he didn't have another QB, he just ran the clock out.

[DarthMonk]

Gruden said that he thought Griffin was hurt, and since he didn't have another QB, he just ran the clock out.

Yeah ... I heard.

[SkinsJock]

Jay Gruden needs to grow a pair and let Snyder and Allen know that he wants to make this work and he will not be able to do that with these 2 bozos trying to help - I know that Gruden brought him in here and they were hoping that Gruden could 'fix' the QB - if the QB cannot be fixed, then make that clear and tell them to stay out of your way while you try and make the rest of this mess go away

If Gruden is going to stay here and let these 2 make his job more difficult without a big fight, he deserves the ridicule he's going to get

[StorminMormon86]

I'm constantly hearing on the radio that Allen/Snyder told Gruden if he wanted Griffin benched, he still needed to be the #2 on the depth chart. If Gruden and the coaches have no faith in Griffin, I have to question why the hell he's the #2?!

[riggofan]

I'm constantly hearing on the radio that Allen/Snyder told Gruden if he wanted Griffin benched, he still needed to be the #2 on the depth chart. If Gruden and the coaches have no faith in Griffin, I have to question why the hell he's the #2?!

I've heard that on the radio too, but its just speculation. There is literally no proof that's the case. You shouldn't take it as a fact.

[riggofan]

Running out the clock with over 1:30 to go was inexcusable.[/size]

Man, no offense, but I heard Kevin Sheehan making a big deal about this on the radio last night and today, and I just could care less about that.

We were down 11 points with 1:30 to go. RGIII is hobbling around. The line has already given up seven sacks. Lichtensteiger is hobbling around. Trent Williams is out. Tom Compton is on the left and Polumbus on the right. The backup QB is Darrell Young. And we are literally playing for nothing at this point. There are times to just be smart and get off the field without asking anybody to risk hurting themselves, and this was one of those times.

We have plenty of other stuff to be outraged about with this team. I'll console myself with the knowledge that we'll be picking four spots higher than the g-strings in April.

[Bdot]

If RG3's score wasn't a touchdown, somebody tell me how this Sammy Watkins play is a touchdown

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014091400/2014/REG2/dolphins@bills#menu=gamepass|contentId%3A0ap3000000394243&tab=analyze

[DarthMonk]

If RG3's score wasn't a touchdown, somebody tell me how this Sammy Watkins play is a touchdown

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014091400/2014/REG2/dolphins@bills#menu=gamepass|contentId%3A0ap3000000394243&tab=analyze

I would say that if the rule is a was stated on TV, then the call against Griff was correct and the Watkins play should be a touchback too.

[DarthMonk]

Running out the clock with over 1:30 to go was inexcusable.[/size]

Man, no offense, but I heard Kevin Sheehan making a big deal about this on the radio last night and today, and I just could care less about that.

We were down 11 points with 1:30 to go. RGIII is hobbling around. The line has already given up seven sacks. Lichtensteiger is hobbling around. Trent Williams is out. Tom Compton is on the left and Polumbus on the right. The backup QB is Darrell Young. And we are literally playing for nothing at this point. There are times to just be smart and get off the field without asking anybody to risk hurting themselves, and this was one of those times.

We have plenty of other stuff to be outraged about with this team. I'll console myself with the knowledge that we'll be picking four spots higher than the g-strings in April.

No offense either bro but I just ain't buyin':

Of all the odd things Jay Gruden did on Sunday — starting an injured quarterback who couldn’t make it past the opening drive, not activating three quarterbacks despite trotting out an injured starter, not intervening when Santana Moss began screaming at officials before halftime, not realizing that Moss had been ejected from the game until a Fox broadcaster later told him, not trusting the roll-outs and bootlegs that had allowed Robert Griffin III to succeed in the first half — nothing was more bizarre than his decision-making in the final two minutes of the game.

With about two-and-a-half minutes left, the Redskins got the ball back at their own 18. They were down by 11 points: a touchdown, a two-point conversion and a field goal. They were out of timeouts.

Two short passes gave Washington a first down at its own 32, and brought about the two-minute warning.

And then, the Redskins appeared to give up on the game. After a short pass and a sack, Pierre Garcon and DeSean Jackson slowly jogged back to the line of scrimmage as time ticked away. Griffin handed off the ball to Chris Thompson for a one-yard loss. Then the Redskins elected to run the clock down and take a delay of game penalty, before punting with 20 seconds to go.

At this point, I began screaming in the office. I trust those of you who weren’t already comatose (or entering your neighborhood grocery store) began screaming at home. Why would you punt there? What is the purpose of a punt there? If your only goal is to avoid injury, just take a knee and then allow the Giants to do the same.

A punt is utterly pointless. It’s rolling an orange down the sidewalk. It’s ripping up notebook paper while hiding underneath your desk. It’s singing Halloween songs in front of a Christmas tree. It’s an action that has no meaning.

“I don’t get this,” radio play-by-play man Larry Michael said, as the play clock ran down. “I don’t know what they’re doing.”

“They took no chance at any shot down the field in the last two minutes of the game,” radio analyst Chris ey added. “And that’s really disappointing, that you don’t at least take a shot….You don’t see a lot of delay of game penalties down 11 points in the fourth quarter.”

“It went contrary to what your regular strategy would be,” Michael further observed. “Why change your logical way of playing the game?”

Bizarrely, the Giants then fumbled the punt. The Redskins now had the ball at the Giants 29-yard line with 9 seconds left. And so there were three actions that would have made sense.

1) Kick a field goal, hoping you then have enough time for an attempted onside kick, and, if successful, a desperation heave into the end zone.

2) Throw a pass into the end zone, hoping for a crazy bounce or a remarkable grab.

3) Fearing injury, take a knee and end the game.

The Redskins chose option four: a three-yard pass to DeSean Jackson.

“More than anything, it was confusing,” said Shawn Springs, the former cornerback who now works as an analyst for Comcast SportsNet. “If you’re trying to not get anyone hurt, just take a knee. If that’s not the case, then take a shot in the end zone. Don’t throw a bubble screen. I don’t know how else to say it other than either there was some confusion or they just quit.”

Again, this was utterly senseless football behavior, a choice with no upside, no purpose, no possible justification. What is the reason to throw a three-yard pass with nine seconds left? Just to raise our collective blood pressure?

“Can’t remember the last time I saw a team down 11 pts with 1:30+ in the game quit,” wrote Kevin Sheehan, the host of the Redskins Radio Network’s pre-game show, on his blog. “Gruden threw in the towel. I thought it was disgraceful.”

Well, there’s a reason Sheehan can’t remember it: because it almost never happens. The Redskins on Sunday became the first NFL team since 2011 to punt after getting the ball back with less than three minutes remaining while trailing by two possessions. (In other words, while trailing by between 9 and 16 points.)

In fact, only four times this season has a team trailing by two possessions received the ball with less than five minutes left and wound up punting. Two of those times were recorded by the Redskins on Sunday.

This, in other words, was bizarre behavior, behavior not considered by other professional football teams.

So how do other professional football teams handle such situations? Well, 47 times this season, NFL teams trailing by two possessions have received the ball with less than three minutes remaining. Twenty times the game ended before the drive did. Thirteen times, the ball was turned over on downs. Eight times, the ball was fumbled or intercepted. Five times, the trailing team scored a touchdown. And one time — yeah, you know which one — the trailing team punted.

Let’s look at those touchdowns for a second. Why would a team trailing by two possessions with so little time on the clock bother to score a touchdown?

Well, the last time this was done, the author was Ben Roethlisberger. Trailing 35-24 to the Saints — yes, by 11 points — the Steelers got the ball back with 1:02 left, at their own 2-yard line. Three short passes, a spike, and two 15-yard penalties moved the Steelers to the New Orleans 3-yard line with four seconds left. The game, clearly, was over. And yet the Steelers still scored a touchdown, still went for (and converted) a two-point conversion. Why? Because the alternative is just to give up, I guess. After that Saints loss, for what it’s worth, Pittsburgh won consecutive games at Cincinnati and Atlanta to move back into playoff position.

Gruden, to be fair, did offer something of an explanation after the game. He suggested he was protecting Griffin, who had grimaced after taking a late-game sack.

“I don’t know what happened,” the coach said. “That’s why I kind of let the clock run out. I thought he was hurt a little bit. But he was okay. He was okay.”

Which means there was no real reason to give up. It was giving up for the sake of giving up.

No, the Redskins almost certainly weren’t going to win the game whatever they did in the last two minutes. The Advanced Football Analytics win probability chart gave Washington a 0.3 percent chance at the two-minute warning, a number that fell precipitously with every subsequent play. But to longtime football watchers, it just felt so bizarre.

“All you can say is wow,” Sheehan said during the Redskins Radio Network post-game show. “I mean, that was pitiful. There’s no excuse whatsoever [to do that] in a football game — unless you are trying to lose, and have zero desire at the end of that game to win it….But that was really grotesque to watch what happened there in the final minute and 35 seconds. It’s one of the worst things I think I’ve ever seen a team to do: to quit that blatantly when you are a touchdown and a two-point conversion away from a three-point deficit.”

This all veers dangerously close to the land of cliches, of never giving up and always trying your best. And maybe Griffin really was too injured to continue, in which case the Redskins probably should have just kneeled on the ball.

But still, it’s hard not to chuckle when you see the Instagram message posted by Pierre Garcon Monday morning.

“Remember, defeat is temporary,” the message said, “but giving up is permanent.”

I was ashamed. Freaking bring in Young and run read option. Anything but jog and punt.

[welch]

As best I remember the "body-bag" game, after the Eagles purposely injured Stan Humphries and Mark Rypien and then Humphries a second time (Humphries limped back into the game and either Jerome Brown or Reggie White grabbed Humphries by the foot, after Humphries was down, and gave the foot an extra twist) Joe Gibbs sent Brian Mitchell in as QB. Mitchell was trying to slam in a TD as time ran out, even though the Eagles had a ten or fourteen point lead.

I saw Billy Kilmer pull the team together to score a TD with almost no time left in a playoff game. Made the final about 35 - 21, but George Allen and Billy and Larry Brown would not surrender.

Maybe:

- "Promote" Gruden to offensive coordinator from observer, or whatever role he has adopted
- Rehire Joe Gibbs. Re-learn the meaning of "Heavy Jumbo"
- Let Joe give orders from his racing team office in North Carolina
- Get a defensive coordinator that Gibbs thinks is a tough as Richie Petibon and Gregg Williams
- Have the various assistant coaches follow Joe's orders. Don't bother Joe with the small stuff
- Fly Joe to each game. Listen when he says "Keep hitting until they give up the line-of-scrimmage". Fly him home after the game.

Justification? Zorn, Shanahan, and Gruden don't seem to be mentally and emotionally present at the games. One ounce of Gibbs at age 72 or so is worth more than the combined weight of those three. And it's more fun to imagine Joe Gibbs as coach than to see Gruden.

[fabe]

All I have to say about that Giants game is that reversed TD before halftime was absolute GARBAGE!

During the game, they gave two, lengthy explanations for why it wasn't a touchdown, and I didn't buy either of them. I feel like if this happened to any other team, they would've gotten 6. NOBODY is going to convince me that it wasn't a touchdown. Forget all that slow-motion, extra zoom-in angles, and all that crap. Just watch the play in full-speed, and you'll see what the refs saw: a touchdown. It wasn't until they broke the play down and zoomed in that they decided that it should be reversed.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington-re ... ry-at-call

Moss was totally right to get in the face of the officials. I would've done the same thing (or maybe worse).

That play cost us the game! That would've given us 17 unanswered points going in to halftime, and we were supposed to get first possession in the second half. After that touchdown was reversed, everything spiraled downward for the 'Skins.

I really, Really, REALLY hate the officiating crew! I can't believe these a-holes held out for more money. They don't deserve that money, in my opinion.

[Kilmer72]

All I have to say about that Giants game is that reversed TD before halftime was absolute GARBAGE!

During the game, they gave two, lengthy explanations for why it wasn't a touchdown, and I didn't buy either of them. I feel like if this happened to any other team, they would've gotten 6. NOBODY is going to convince me that it wasn't a touchdown. Forget all that slow-motion, extra zoom-in angles, and all that crap. Just watch the play in full-speed, and you'll see what the refs saw: a touchdown. It wasn't until they broke the play down and zoomed in that they decided that it should be reversed.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington-re ... ry-at-call

Moss was totally right to get in the face of the officials. I would've done the same thing (or maybe worse).

That play cost us the game! That would've given us 17 unanswered points going in to halftime, and we were supposed to get first possession in the second half. After that touchdown was reversed, everything spiraled downward for the 'Skins.

I really, Really, REALLY hate the officiating crew! I can't believe these a-holes held out for more money. They don't deserve that money, in my opinion.

All teams get that. The Redskins more than most. Moss has been a great Redskin and a "Joe Gibbs Redskin" Joe didn't give in to the refs. He would hire them and do what ever he had to politically do to earn the favor
of (They might call it right) You know I didn't used to believe in curses but now I am not so sure.

[oj]

This has morphed into a 'that play' discussion and here's my interpretation. The ball was loose in Roberts hands as he was crossing the line, I think he kinda regained control and because he felt he had crossed the plane he could casually toss up the ball, that the play had ended. The refs didn't see him exhibit a ball control manuever and that is what is the decision maker. Robert felt the play was over and let the ball go, the refs wanted to see evidence that he had control and didn't see it.
It wasn't the fact that the ball was loose crossing the plane, it was the lack of control afterwards.
If Robert had regained control of the ball and handed it to the ref then they couldn't have overturned the call.

[riggofan]

Jay Gruden needs to grow a pair and let Snyder and Allen know that he wants to make this work and he will not be able to do that with these 2 bozos trying to help

Yeah I don't know how his contract works, but I always wondered why Gruden or Shanahan, if they were having issues with meddling, don't just come out and make that case in the media.

[riggofan]

Justification? Zorn, Shanahan, and Gruden don't seem to be mentally and emotionally present at the games. One ounce of Gibbs at age 72 or so is worth more than the combined weight of those three. And it's more fun to imagine Joe Gibbs as coach than to see Gruden.

Man, are we ever going to get over the 80s?

[StorminMormon86]

Man, are we ever going to get over the 80s?

Two things Skins fans are never going to let go of: RGIII and the "hogs" from the 80's.

[riggofan]

Man, are we ever going to get over the 80s?

Two things Skins fans are never going to let go of: RGIII and the "hogs" from the 80's.

hah. I mean good grief... I grew up with that team. My dad and I were at the "we want Dallas" game. John Riggins is my favorite Redskin of all time and always will be. But that team has nothing to do with the Landover Snyderskins.

[Countertrey]

Man, are we ever going to get over the 80s?

Two things Skins fans are never going to let go of: RGIII and the "hogs" from the 80's.

hah. I mean good grief... I grew up with that team. My dad and I were at the "we want Dallas" game. John Riggins is my favorite Redskin of all time and always will be. But that team has nothing to do with the Landover Snyderskins.

You get it, then. The teams of the '80's are the standard. It is a very difficult measure to go against... but it would be nice to see the team at least put in some effort...

[Irn-Bru]

I'm constantly hearing on the radio that Allen/Snyder told Gruden if he wanted Griffin benched, he still needed to be the #2 on the depth chart. If Gruden and the coaches have no faith in Griffin, I have to question why the hell he's the #2?!

You might need to exercise a little more skepticism toward the rumors that the coaches "have no faith in Griffin."

[riggofan]

You get it, then. The teams of the '80's are the standard. It is a very difficult measure to go against... but it would be nice to see the team at least put in some effort...

I do, man. Don't mean to complain about it, but "remember the Hogs!" feels about as real as "dan snyder must sell!" at this point. I don't think we'll ever reach that standard again for too many reasons to list. We need to quit living in the past and set a new standard, something obtainable by this team under this owner.

[SkinsJock]

... The teams of the '80's are the standard. It is a very difficult measure to go against... but it would be nice to see the team at least put in some effort...

I think that Jay Gruden did not do very well this season but the fact is that he was in a very difficult situation and in a very difficult town to work - let's face it - Gruden would love to have an O line that suits his game not this group of players that Mike brought in for his scheme - Gruden brought Haslet back because of the continuity - big mistake also - I think he let his feelings of frustration show too much with regards to the lack of progress by his QBs

all done now - hopefully the FO will make some good additions and Snyder and Allen will let them bring in who they want

it's the same old refrain here - it's just a matter of time, we'll be better again soon

we do need a bunch of big guys like the hogs on the O line and a defense with the attitude of a Pat Fisher - things can get better here

[StorminMormon86]

You might need to exercise a little more skepticism toward the rumors that the coaches "have no faith in Griffin."

I do have skepticism, but the play calling and Gruden's pressers make it seem like he has little to no faith in him running the type of offense he wants to run.

[Deadskins]

This has morphed into a 'that play' discussion and here's my interpretation. The ball was loose in Roberts hands as he was crossing the line, I think he kinda regained control and because he felt he had crossed the plane he could casually toss up the ball, that the play had ended. The refs didn't see him exhibit a ball control manuever and that is what is the decision maker. Robert felt the play was over and let the ball go, the refs wanted to see evidence that he had control and didn't see it.
It wasn't the fact that the ball was loose crossing the plane, it was the lack of control afterwards.
If Robert had regained control of the ball and handed it to the ref then they couldn't have overturned the call.

I heard an explanation of this call just the other day, using the "maintain possession throughout the process of going to the ground" rule. He lost possession before crossing the goal line, regained it in the endzone, but then lost it again when he hit the ground. Therefore, no possession in the endzone, and since the ball went out of bounds, touchback. Not saying I agree with this interperatation, but it at least makes some sense. My problem with this interperatation is that he was not a reciever, and that once he regained posession in the end zone, TD. He should not have to maintain posession through the ground.

[DEHog]

This has morphed into a 'that play' discussion and here's my interpretation. The ball was loose in Roberts hands as he was crossing the line, I think he kinda regained control and because he felt he had crossed the plane he could casually toss up the ball, that the play had ended. The refs didn't see him exhibit a ball control manuever and that is what is the decision maker. Robert felt the play was over and let the ball go, the refs wanted to see evidence that he had control and didn't see it.
It wasn't the fact that the ball was loose crossing the plane, it was the lack of control afterwards.
If Robert had regained control of the ball and handed it to the ref then they couldn't have overturned the call.

I heard an explanation of this call just the other day, using the "maintain possession throughout the process of going to the ground" rule. He lost possession before crossing the goal line, regained it in the endzone, but then lost it again when he hit the ground. Therefore, no possession in the endzone, and since the ball went out of bounds, touchback. Not saying I agree with this interperatation, but it at least makes some sense. My problem with this interperatation is that he was not a reciever, and that once he regained posession in the end zone, TD. He should not have to maintain posession through the ground.

It was explained that when a ball carrier loses the ball he becomes just like a receiver and therefor the rule applies