Poll: Gruden vs. Griffin (who stays who goes?)

[tribeofjudah]

As we all know, the relationship is NOT stable or tenable.
With all the drama over the past 10 years, it's no longer fun being a REDSKINS fan (but bite my tongue and hope for the best)

I wonder who get's the AXE and who returns next season?

[StorminMormon86]

Gruden HAS to stay...this continuity of firing coaches has to stop. On the other hand, for Gruden to stay this means Griffin has to go.

[SkinsJock]

I don't see it as a choice - Hopefully Gruden is the HC and he gets the players and coaches he needs ...

If Jay Gruden's here and Dan Snyder continues to be a part of the player and coaching decisions, we don't have much chance of success

[tribeofjudah]

Jock? Not a choice?
They both cannot be here....so take one. Just an opinion.

[oj]

I am very critical of Gruden and believe he has done a poor job. I do think he is smart and talented and deserves more than just the single season, he might turn out to be a longterm coach. I think Gibbs' first year was rocky too.

[yupchagee]

We have much more invested in

[OldSchool]

This is easy for me, Griffin is worse than useless so get rid of him. Gruden and Allen deserve another year to see if they can begin to make progress. Snyder needs to leave them alone to decide how to incrementally improve the team.

[Irn-Bru]

We have much more invested in

I assume you're going to say Griffin?

If so, I disagree. The only thing we "invested" were draft picks, but those are gone now and we're back to having first round picks again. Draft picks are not investments, anyway; they are a roll of the dice. If your 6th rounder out-performs your 1st rounder, you start the 6th rounder. Who cares if you use one or three first round picks on a guy. If he can't play, you get rid of him, period.

What else could you be referring to? His salary is nowhere near what elite QBs and first-round picks of old make, so it's not like we're thin in other areas because we're spending so much on our QB. And if we get rid of him in the next year or two it will be a clean break with respect to the salary cap. No problems there at all.

Are we "invested" in that we've built a system and team around him? No. The system we have is basically a generic pro-style offense, and while we have built up a pretty good selection of weapons for whoever plays QB, the WRs/TEs and RBs we've got are going to be good regardless of who's playing.

What's the "investment" you're talking about?

Either Griffin can or can't play QB at a high level. If he can't, then too bad and he needs to go. Keeping him because we used multiple draft picks to acquire him would only compound our error.

(That's assuming that Griffin is done in DC and that we can expect to either have Gruden or Griffin here next year. I don't think either assumption is warranted at the moment, but that's just my opinion.)

[Irn-Bru]

I am very critical of Gruden and believe he has done a poor job. I do think he is smart and talented and deserves more than just the single season, he might turn out to be a longterm coach. I think Gibbs' first year was rocky too.

Unless a guy is totally out of his league (Zorn), or a joke, you simply can't say that he won't work out after only one season. Coaches need time. Gruden's shown enough, IMHO, to warrant another season at least.

[SkinsJock]

We have much more invested in

I assume you're going to say Griffin?

If so, I disagree. The only thing we "invested" were draft picks, but those are gone now and we're back to having first round picks again. Draft picks are not investments, anyway; they are a roll of the dice. If your 6th rounder out-performs your 1st rounder, you start the 6th rounder. Who cares if you use one or three first round picks on a guy. If he can't play, you get rid of him, period.

What else could you be referring to? His salary is nowhere near what elite QBs and first-round picks of old make, so it's not like we're thin in other areas because we're spending so much on our QB. And if we get rid of him in the next year or two it will be a clean break with respect to the salary cap. No problems there at all.

Are we "invested" in that we've built a system and team around him? No. The system we have is basically a generic pro-style offense, and while we have built up a pretty good selection of weapons for whoever plays QB, the WRs/TEs and RBs we've got are going to be good regardless of who's playing.

What's the "investment" you're talking about?

Either Griffin can or can't play QB at a high level. If he can't, then too bad and he needs to go. Keeping him because we used multiple draft picks to acquire him would only compound our error.

(That's assuming that Griffin is done in DC and that we can expect to either have Gruden or Griffin here next year. I don't think either assumption is warranted at the moment, but that's just my opinion.)

Thank you FFA - well put

[SkinsJock]

Jock? Not a choice?
They both cannot be here....so take one. Just an opinion.

I really think there's a lot of BS (isn't that just the way it always is here) out there about Gruden & Griffin - I don't think it's a given that if Griffin is here next Spring, Gruden will be out - there's a lot more to that happening than just the QB and HC not getting along - there's a very unlikely scenario that both may not be here; a new GM could bring in a new HC who decides he doesn't want Griffin playing QB here

I think Gruden is here and IMO he should be - Griffin may be here if he clearly shows improvement

[fabe]

We have much more invested in

The suspense is killing me.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

^coachs pay roll doesnt count towards the cap does it?? I could care less how much money Snyder pisses away.

Not that I want Gruden gone.. my confidence in his abilities is wavering though.

[HEROHAMO]

i actually like what Gruden is doing. I do think RG3 needs to humble himself and get back to work again. But it looks like one must go.

I am not going to trust a one year head coach with my franchise. I would go out and again hire a proven coach. Just to rebuild this thing back up again. I would choose Bill Cowher to come coach this thing back up.

As far as GM. I would choose someone under Ravens scouting, Packers, Seahawks or 49ers staff. If we can lure one of those GMs away that would be even better.

[SkinsJock]

Jay Gruden has stepped into a complete mess - if this draft was put in the hands of GM AJ Smith, HC Jay Gruden and Presdident Bruce Allen, we'd have a shot at beginning the complete rebuild that this franchise needs
Dan Snyder needs to remove himself from anything to do with who coaches or plays for this franchise
we need to have a team of players on the field who are being coached to play to their capabilities & to execute the game plan together

this Snyder & Allen BS of bringing in the latest 'flash' player or coach (BPA) has got to stop - that's stupid fantasy football stuff

we need a plan and the guys in charge need the full authority to make it happen

[Irn-Bru]

I don't think things are that bad, SJ. Our roster has good depth and viable starters at many positions. I can't think of more than 1-2 overpaid old guys on the team, for example, and it won't hurt us to get rid of them (as I expect we will this offseason). Compare that with any year from when Snyder bought the team until Shanny's last couple of seasons — yes, even when Gibbs was here.

Yes, we lost the high picks when RGIII didn't work out, but the team has drafted at least at a league-average level of acquiring decent talent — I'm tempted to say higher than league average, but I don't know other teams' depth well enough.

It looks like Haslett needs to go. We need a few new starters in key positions on the OL, DL, and DBs, and we are also missing one or two true playmakers — guys like Jackson who can turn the tides in a game almost single-handedly.

We need a QB, obviously. That's our biggest challenge, as it is for the 15 other NFL teams that don't have a legit starter in their lineup. It's always hard being a fan when you don't have a real general calling the signals.

But, here's the thing: the distance separating solid teams from mediocre teams is not that great. People look at what we'd have to change to be the Broncos or Seahawks, but the reality is that we only need to be the Colts, Chargers, or the Chiefs to be pushing for a late-season run — all teams with obvious flaws but who are doing a good job implementing the strategy and identity they have set for themselves.

We are not far from being competitive if Gruden is the right guy and if he is given the space needed to work his plan. We do not need a total overhaul; in fact, I think that kind of approach would set this franchise back another 4-5 years. Take what Shanahan built from the ashes of Cerrato/Zorn and go from there. That's what I see Gruden doing so far, and what I'd like to see him continue to pursue.

[SkinsJock]

OK FFA - I'll grant that we are not in dire need but the fact remains that this franchise under Snyder has not managed to build anything that can work over time - I'll be a lot happier when Snyder is out of the loop here
every year is the same, we get our hopes up and then we realize the players and coaches were not who real football people would use

as long as Snyder remains involved and continues to interfere with what the football guys want we will not be successful

all Snyder needs to do is take himself out of the decision making process

AND

we need a very thorough evaluation of where we are and how does that fit with what the plan is

this is not about Gruden vrs Griffin - Gruden is fine, we just need Snyder to take himself out of the operation

[SkinsJock]

looking at the bad job Gruden has done here the last few weeks - he may be trying to get himself fired

today was another really bad job as HC

[fabe]

I would rather keep Robert, because he is the only guy we have to build our team around. If we get rid of him, then you're basically starting over from scratch. Now if we build around Robert, and he somehow doesn't turn out to be the guy, then at least we have a team built for a new, better QB.

[SkinsJock]

Someone needs to make Gruden not use Griffin - playing behind this O line is ruining his confidence

this is a nightmare - there were a bunch of late hits today to go along with the 7 sacks and untold legit hits

Gruden is trying to make sure Robert cannot be an effective QB

[tribeofjudah]

Someone needs to make Gruden not use Griffin - playing behind this O line is ruining his confidence

this is a nightmare - there were a bunch of late hits today to go along with the 7 sacks and untold legit hits

Gruden is trying to make sure Robert cannot be an effective QB

is that your theory? I doubt any coach would purposely try to hurt and ruin a player. That is sick mentality and a coach like that SHOULD be fired.

[OldSchool]

Someone needs to make Gruden not use Griffin - playing behind this O line is ruining his confidence

this is a nightmare - there were a bunch of late hits today to go along with the 7 sacks and untold legit hits

Gruden is trying to make sure Robert cannot be an effective QB

is that your theory? I doubt any coach would purposely try to hurt and ruin a player. That is sick mentality and a coach like that SHOULD be fired.

IMHO Skinsjock has his post game tin hat on now because earlier he was complaining when Gruden benched Griffin now Skinsjock says Gruden is sabotaging Griffin by playing him.

[SkinsJock]

Someone needs to make Gruden not use Griffin - playing behind this O line is ruining his confidence
this is a nightmare - there were a bunch of late hits today to go along with the 7 sacks and untold legit hits
Gruden is trying to make sure Robert cannot be an effective QB

is that your theory? I doubt any coach would purposely try to hurt and ruin a player. That is sick mentality and a coach like that SHOULD be fired.

I don't think Gruden wants his QB hurt but he sure as hell does not want Colt or Kirk playing behind this O line - they might get hurt

Gruden only needs Griffin for 2 more games - playing behind this O line will shorten your career - Griffin's confidence has to be hurt by this

[tribeofjudah]

perhaps it is appropriate to add a #4 option: BOTH will be here next season.

SORRY, I screwed it up by adding a 4th line. I'm such a BONEHEAD

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Correction SJ.. McCoy is ALREADY hurt. Cousins has yet to be hurt by this line... he jus led the league in TOs instead. Ill bet his nunbers would be a lot better behind a real NFL quality.. of course thatg spell better numbers for any three of the qbs this year. This group wouldve body bagged Manning this year