C'mon Dan, it's time to let the NFL guys do their thing

[SkinsJock]

There's no way around it - this franchise is doomed to fail ..

well, that is the opinion I've formed after reading some pieces recently and beginning with this from Jason La Canfora

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jas ... icted-woes

so ... you see, it really does not matter that much - Dan's still interfering and no HC is going to be successful

all those that criticized the Redskins for trading those picks away for RG3 can now know that ... you were correct!

it pisses me off! - it doesn't matter what this franchise does it will not be successful while this little twit is involved


I will never give up hope that things might work out for the best here BUT that is not happening while Dan Snyder is the owner

[riggofan]

Really not sure what you're griping about. He basically just wrote the same stuff fans write on here on a weekly basis.

What a colossal waste. And, given the history of this franchise during Snyder's reign, it's not the least bit surprising. Of course it was going to end in a ridiculous fashion. It always does. What's really changed? What ever will?

Its not an article about the franchise, its an indictment of Dan Snyder.

I've been writing this column, more or less, since 2004 when I started covering the team for The Washington Post, and these issues had dogged them long before then. There is no independent, strong, capable and proven talent evaluator in a position to make authoritative change. It's either been football operations run by a pseudo-GM, or an established coach who lacks personnel acumen at the top of the football operations pyramid being given far too much control (Joe Gibbs, Shanahan) who are ultimately undone by their own deficiencies in roster building.

This part was hilarious:

To say it will set them back implies there is some ideal of sustained winning that they actually might have achieved otherwise. It implies there is a future for them that somehow wouldn't be overwrought with dysfunction and power plays and failure. Based on all the empirical evidence to date of the SnyderSkins, on and off the field, where is that notion coming from?

[SkinsJock]

I have changed the thread title and I will expand on reasons why tomorrow ..

IMO - there is a lot of mis-information out there about what is really going on but unfortunately this is the reality surrounding this franchise and will continue to be while Snyder owns and manipulates what is happening here

I must admit that, while I do not like Jason, this particular article has a lot of merit and specifically - the value of the trade to get RG3
I now understand, & anyone that understands the reasoning as given by LaCanfora will agree, was one that should not have been made, that being said, I am still not willing to accept that RG3 is 'done' or that Gruden cannot help make him into a good NFL QB

more later ...

[SkinsJock]

Yesterday I was contacted by someone that I have a lot of respect for and he made me look at this situation and why things will not get much better with this franchise while Dan Snyder is involved

First, let's look at why the trade was made with the Rams ... this from March, 2012

Dan Snyder made the decision to trade up with the Rams - he did this with the support of Bruce Allen. Mike Shanahan was strongly opposed to this trade
Evaluating the Redskins Trade for Robert Griffin III

Regardless of the rationale behind this move, the Redskins lost a tremendous amount of value in this trade, potentially setting the team back for years. If RGIII does not pan out – whether because of talent or injury – Washington would be left with no quarterback and no first round draft picks for the next two years. Regardless of Robert Griffin III’s future, the Redskins lost about as much expected value as the Falcons gave up last year to acquire Julio Jones. While RG3 will bring excitement to Washington, the conclusion here is clear. This trade was a bad move by the Redskins, and one of the worst moves in recent Redskins' franchise history.

https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress ... iffin-iii/

Yesterday, I still thought that all was not lost if Jay Gruden and Sean McVay could find a way for RG3 to get the help he needs to develop better mechanics - I'm not so sure anymore and that is mainly because of Dan Snyder

My source has convinced me that we're going to continue to see things go the way they've been going because Snyder is still involved

I will elaborate on that in my next 2 posts

[OldSchool]

Snyder has done a great job of making money with this franchise tripling the annual revenue during his ownership but the on the field performance has been terrible and I blame Snyder for it. The Megabust trade for Griffin is the biggest and worst of a never ending series of moronic moves by Snyder. I don't believe he has ever yielded control of the player and coaching selection to football people, the Skins are his personal fantasy team and he is a terrible GM. It's possible the situation is hopeless, I hate to think like that but is Snyder ever going step aside and let smarter people run the football team while he focuses on marketing and sales? I hope so but I doubt it. If the Megabust Griffin trade doesn't teach him nothing will.

[SKINS#1]

We, Redskin Fans, have supported Snyder with our dollars making him tons of money even though he hasn't produced a consistent winner. For me, no more - no longer will I support him, no more merchandise or attend no more games. I will still be a fan but I refuse to support Snyder. IMO, this is the only way I think he might get out of the way and let someone that knows football run the show. He has to learn that a winner is more valuable than what he is now doing.

[SkinsJock]

OK - this is a copy from London Fletcher's Facebook page yesterday ...

"My thoughts on an organization that I spent seven years with.
Great organizations have an identity and a plan of how they want to function, we made the playoffs twice in seven years and I was a part of the failure like everyone else.
At some point Mr. Snyder needs to do a self evaluation and also, he needs to look at how the consistently winning organizations operate and then find a way to implement those strategies here.
What's the organization's "Mission Statement" "Motto" "Standard of Operation"? I spent seven years there and still don't know either.
I know the Patriots have a "Way" and the Ravens "Play like a Raven".

It's been too long for a franchise with such a great history to continue to reside in disarray. You can agree or disagree with me, however one thing that's not open for debate are the results (63W-92L) over the last 10 seasons not including the next 5 games. I know for a fact it doesn't matter how great a building looks finished, if the foundation is not done correctly it eventually comes crashing down. In other words it's time to correct the problems with the foundation before you address the framing, drywall and roof issues.

I'm no different from any other player who's spent a number of years wearing the burgundy and gold and would love to see this franchise rise from the ashes back to the glory years, that's why I'm offering a solution to the problems that exist rather than just continue to suffer along with our die-hard fans."

REVEALING

and then this ... also from London Fletcher on 11/24

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/11/ ... ed-period/

“It’s not an environment that’s really conducive to winning for a sustained period of time, from top to bottom,” Fletcher said. “You have to have a plan in place and say, ‘You know what? This is what we’re gonna do, this is a winning formula,’ and then stick to the formula. From my seven years, prior to [when] I got there, even now – and I count myself as being a part of it because I didn’t help get it as good as I wanted it to be once I left – you have to have a plan, that, ‘You know what? This is gonna be a winning plan, let’s stick to this plan, let’s stick to the script,’ so to speak, and ‘do it the right way.’ And that hasn’t been done before I got there, while I was there, since I’ve left, and I don’t know if they know what they’re doing, in terms of saying ‘Hey, this is what we’re gonna do to be a winning franchise for the next decade.’ I like Jay Gruden as a head coach; I think from a play-calling standpoint, I like some of the things he’s done. Maybe he can be that guy, but there needs to be some more changes that take place.
“There’s too many people who talk in that building about what’s going on in the building. At some point in time, you have to shut up and keep everything in-house, and let’s focus on how we can go and become a winning organization for a sustained period of time.”

and finally my source said ...

Jocko - I cannot post the information or the sources I had which predicted this disaster this year.
I knew Dan Snyder was still dealing with RG3 in the way he did with Lavar Arrington and Clinton Portis. He has a sweet spot for those he perceives as his "money makers" at least until they do not serve him much and then they get dumped like garbage.

Dan Snyder has learned, yes, but ONLY to deceive others and the media, that he has not been meddling; the meddling ranges from Draft choices to agent signings to who plays on the field to leaked pieces of information to manipulate people within the organization. I (and insiders and Jason and London) know better.

Jason LaCanfora has better sources than you. I agree with him but I will put it differently: For as long as Daniel Snyder owns the team, NOTHING will change. Just like the scorpion in the fable. He is who he is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog

as many of you know I am a very positive Redskins fan and I am still hoping that Gruden and McVay can find a way to help RG3 but I am also very cogniscant of how bad an influence Dan Snyder can be and I'm going to watch what happens here in the next few weeks and over the off season to see if this guy is going to continue to make sure this franchise cannot be successful

I was initially happy but I am very, very sorry that Dan Snyder ever bought this franchise ...

IT's SIMPLE - while Dan Snyder continues to interfere, those that know how to make things work in the NFL will not be able to do that

[Bishop Hammer]

This thread is spot on but its beating a dead horse none the less. At least theres not as many Snyder supporters putting him over the team.

[SkinsJock]

the problem I have is, for a few years now, I wanted to believe that Snyder finally was letting the football people run things

AND

I refused to see the evidence to the contrary

I am just so bummed out by all this - we are in a lot worse shape than I thought

[SkinsJock]

If I was a college QB and I got drafted by the Redskins, I'd pull an Eli and refuse to play here ...

actually, I think RG3 should consider suing the franchise for screwing him so badly by not utilizing his talents better and not making him into the NFL QB he could have been if he was coached properly

[markshark84]

the problem I have is, for a few years now, I wanted to believe that Snyder finally was letting the football people run things

AND

I refused to see the evidence to the contrary

I am just so bummed out by all this - we are in a lot worse shape than I thought

It is nice to read you are beginning to see the error of your ways. This is another thing that we used to argue over.....

I highlighted above why your opinions are wrong more often than not. The fact you "want" something to be true doesn't make it so. You have to stop believing things merely because that is what you WANT to happen --- and many times it is against common sense.

As I have said to you over and over, a guy like Danny boy doesn't change his stripes. He will continue to destroy this franchise. He has made this franchise into the 1990s NFC East equivalent of the Arizona Cardinals.

[HEROHAMO]

Look its a tough situation but not an impossible one.

Jimmy Johnson was able to do it with Jerrah. Even Parcells put together a decent roster with Jerrah.

We need a very strong football mind. Shanahan was just too old and past his prime. Gibbs would have been great the second time around only if he had a great GM like Beathard again.

Its the same old truth. We need someone who can first see that talent, acquire the talent and finally people and enviroment to develop the talent.


I can guarantee that most NFL teams the Owner will interfere in some way. Its the GM and Coach who has to deal with it and succeed anyway. Even in Snyders case. They must be able to look at Snyder and tell him No when its a bad move.

[SkinsJock]

There is no way that Bruce Allen will say no or go against Dan Snyder - I think Allen has helped here but he's not a great personnel guy

Jones let Johnson and Parcells do their jobs - Snyder interferes and undermines his coaches = big difference

Shanahan made Snyder get rid of Cerrato and bring in a GM - we now need Snyder to understand what Bruce Allen's strengths and weaknesses are - we need a better GM and Snyder needs to stop interfering

[HogHeaven1983]

[OldSchool]

The Harvard analysis quantifies what many including myself knew intuitively the odds against Griffin or anyone else ever contributing enough to be worth 3 firsts and 1 second round pick are enormous. Have to provide the value of Brady to break even according to their analysis, the odds against picking a guy who can produce at Brady's level were enormous virtually impossible. Shanny had his faults but NO WAY was this something he wanted and with the drafting of Cousins in the 4th Shanny tipped his hand to the public and the rest of the NFL that the Griffin trade was Snyder's baby.

I don't think Snyder would've thought this Griffin trade was a good investment either unless he heavily factored in the marketing and merchandising appeal of Griffin. Snyder is a master marketeer and perhaps executing a bold, highly profitable marketing stoke might bring him more pleasure than winning football games. Snyder sold a ton of jerseys and other stuff and looked like a marketing genus until Griffin got hurt and the whole strategy fell apart.

I don't see Snyder ever really changing because he tripled the revenues during his tenure so maybe by the standard that matters most to him he's a big success.

[welch]

The Harvard analysis quantifies what many including myself knew intuitively the odds against Griffin or anyone else ever contributing enough to be worth 3 firsts and 1 second round pick are enormous. Have to provide the value of Brady to break even according to their analysis, the odds against picking a guy who can produce at Brady's level were enormous virtually impossible. Shanny had his faults but NO WAY was this something he wanted and with the drafting of Cousins in the 4th Shanny tipped his hand to the public and the rest of the NFL that the Griffin trade was Snyder's baby.

I don't think Snyder would've thought this Griffin trade was a good investment either unless he heavily factored in the marketing and merchandising appeal of Griffin. Snyder is a master marketeer and perhaps executing a bold, highly profitable marketing stoke might bring him more pleasure than winning football games. Snyder sold a ton of jerseys and other stuff and looked like a marketing genus until Griffin got hurt and the whole strategy fell apart.

I don't see Snyder ever really changing because he tripled the revenues during his tenure so maybe by the standard that matters most to him he's a big success.

Does anyone know the current Redskin profitability? GP Marshall was the marketing genius of the early NFL -- he made pro-football into a rah-rah thing. By the late '50s, a lot of people around Washington were turning their TV antennas toward Baltimore to watch Colt games. Marshall's team was dismal...legend says that Marshall drafted by reading college football magazines (and then only white players).

Will people give up Snyder's team as the losses continue?

[SkinsJock]

welch - the NFL owners make most of their money off the NFL TV revenue - I'm sure the merchandise and the seats are a lot of money but Snyder is a ways from being hurt by that IMO

Snyder wants the team to do well

Snyder does not seem to want to give up on the idea that he can be 'a part of' the turnaround

Snyder needs to let go and stop interfering

Bruce Allen knows his limitations and he knows he needs help to turn the franchise around

Dan Snyder does not accept that fact

[welch]

welch - the NFL owners make most of their money off the NFL TV revenue - I'm sure the merchandise and the seats are a lot of money but Snyder is a ways from being hurt by that IMO

Snyder wants the team to do well

Snyder does not seem to want to give up on the idea that he can be 'a part of' the turnaround

Snyder needs to let go and stop interfering

Bruce Allen knows his limitations and he knows he needs help to turn the franchise around

Dan Snyder does not accept that fact

I'd guess that eventually Snyder will count the years he has owned the team, count the losses, and learn better. Unfortunately, Marshall never did. I'll check the date, but I think the Redskins did not improve until Marshall had a stroke (or something like it) and EB Williams got day-to-day control of the team.

A mix of "stubborn" with absolute power is intoxicating and dangerous.

[OldSchool]

Does anyone know the current Redskin profitability? Will people give up Snyder's team as the losses continue?[/quote]

I read an article a year or two ago that Snyder tripled the revenue of the Skins during his tenure. As for profitability, I've read in other articles that the TV revenue alone more than covers the cost of running an NFL franchise so the ticket, merchandise margins, food and branding rights revenues flow to the bottom line and in Snyder's case provide an enormous amount of content for his broadcasting business. The Skins have to be enormously profitable for Snyder win or lose.

Will fans stop going and buying his product? Good question he's a master of selling hope each Spring but things seem lower than I can remember. People who buy season tickets and plan on selling tickets to some of their games to keep the cost down got pummeled this year and last. Tickets are going for $5 on StubHub so I have to believe this will impact ticket sales. Companies that buy seats to entertain customers have also be burned because their customers don't want to go to the games so they get passed to friends of friends instead of customers. I have to believe the foundation of his ticket business is eroding. Will it be enough to force him to rethink his involvement or merely smokescreen his involvement? I think more of the same.

[welch]

Unfortunately, "more of the same" seems on the way. If I owned a business in the Washington area, I'd want season tickets to the Nationals, the Capitals, and maybe the Wizards. That would cover pretty nearly the whole year...Nats are solid, so that's valuable entertainment until the end of September or into October. Then Caps and Wizards. Given the NFL's TV contracts, Snyder might not feel a pinch as people find "something else" on Sundays.

If Snyder has not learned in 15 years, then he is more like a modern George Preston Marshall. Ugh.

I remember Edward Bennett Williams' comment after George Allen's first season: "I gave him an unlimited budget and he overspent it!" In those days before free-agency, Allen spent on the team facilities: Redskins Park I with grass AND astro-turf practice fields. Allen and then Bobby Beathard increased the scouting staff. That seems to be the right way to build a team, whether MLB or NFL.

[SkinsJock]

thanks welch - that pretty much sums it all up ... it's just a mess and until Snyder stops trying to 'make it happen' it most likely will not get cleaned up

[HEROHAMO]

There is no way that Bruce Allen will say no or go against Dan Snyder - I think Allen has helped here but he's not a great personnel guy

Jones let Johnson and Parcells do their jobs - Snyder interferes and undermines his coaches = big difference

Shanahan made Snyder get rid of Cerrato and bring in a GM - we now need Snyder to understand what Bruce Allen's strengths and weaknesses are - we need a better GM and Snyder needs to stop interfering

That is the exact loser mentality that has us in this mess in the first place. We all know Snyder is meddlesome. But I truly believe if the right GM and coach were to come. We would be able to turn it around.

Snyder deserves all the blame thats for sure. But only because he has not hired the right staff as of yet.

So what are we supposed to do? Just give up?

No we keep demanding changes. If all the ticket holders stopped attending in a protest. I am sure Snyder would start to notice.

I have no problem with Grudens offensive system. I do have a huge problem with Haslett. Allen is proving he cannot draft very well. All though he has hit on a few picks.

If I owned the Redskins. I would hire a proven coach first and let him pick his GM. Bill Cowher would be my choice as head coach. I would also let Cowher choose his GM and staff.

We need someone who can not only pick players and put in a system. We also need that coach/GM to provide a winning enviroment as in a working hard and being confident and knowing that the hard work will pay off.

[SkinsJock]

There is no way that Bruce Allen will say no or go against Dan Snyder - I think Allen has helped here but he's not a great personnel guy - Jones let Johnson and Parcells do their jobs - Snyder interferes and undermines his coaches = big difference - Shanahan made Snyder get rid of Cerrato and bring in a GM - we now need Snyder to understand what Bruce Allen's strengths and weaknesses are - we need a better GM and Snyder needs to stop interfering

That is the exact loser mentality that has us in this mess in the first place. We all know Snyder is meddlesome. But I truly believe if the right GM and coach were to come. We would be able to turn it around.

really - where do i show a "loser mentality" by wanting this franchise managed without Snyder's interference?
AND - we all want the 'right GM' and the 'right HC' so you're not by yourself on this revelation

Snyder deserves all the blame thats for sure. But only because he has not hired the right staff as of yet. So what are we supposed to do? Just give up? No! we keep demanding changes. If all the ticket holders stopped attending in a protest. I am sure Snyder would start to notice.

get a grip - that's certainly not reality

I have no problem with Grudens offensive system. I do have a huge problem with Haslett. Allen is proving he cannot draft very well. All though he has hit on a few picks.

Gruden's system works - he needs players AND everybody knows Haslett is most likely gone AND even a broken clock is 'right' twice a day

If I owned the Redskins. I would hire a proven coach first and let him pick his GM. Bill Cowher would be my choice as head coach. I would also let Cowher choose his GM and staff. We need someone who can not only pick players and put in a system. We also need that coach/GM to provide a winning enviroment as in a working hard and being confident and knowing that the hard work will pay off.

WOW - you're way out there with this stuff - nobody but you thinks that there a snowball's chance in hell of Cowher coming here and please give an example of which coach could be here and be able or even want to hire the 'right GM'? HCs are in charge of coaching
Most GMs hire coaches or bring in coaches that they can work with - we hope that the new GM would keep Gruden
the 'new' GM might do what Gruden did with Haslett and give him a year to show what he can do with or without RG3

We do need a GM that can put together a FO team and a coaching staff and make a plan for all of them to adhere to and hopefully that includes keeping Gruden - any HC really should have major input into what players he needs to execute the all important plan

[SkinsJock]

That is the exact loser mentality that has us in this mess in the first place. We all know Snyder is meddlesome. But I truly believe if the right GM and coach were to come. We would be able to turn it around.

That is ridiculous - HOW? - Since Snyder, we have had 8 Head Coaches - some people refer to QBs as 'coach killers' - Snyder will not allow a HC to be successful here BECAUSE he refuses to let NFL people do their jobs and give them the authority to get the job done
No question, Snyder should have input but do not interfere, let the people in charge do their jobs - that does not happen here

Hypothetically, we could bring in Joe Gibbs or Bill Cowher or even Vince Lombardi and they would not be able to make things work even with Tom Brady and JJ Watt on the team - we need a plan and a man in charge of implementing that plan

right now we don't have a plan and we have Dan Snyder

WAKE UP - for crying out loud

[DarthMonk]

But I truly believe if the right GM and coach were to come. We would be able to turn it around.

Snyder deserves all the blame thats for sure. But only because he has not hired the right staff as of yet.

I used to believe this - as recently as a year ago. Trouble is, he had the right guys when he hired Marty. But Marty did too good a job without Dan's help and Dan shoved him out the door. Too many wins and not enough glitz.

So what are we supposed to do? Just give up?

Pretty much. I'll still hope but I won't spend money.