Fans Should Require Better

[SKINS#1]

I really don't expect the Redskins will become a consistent winner until the Fans stand up and speak up. For example, I will not attend any games until I see marked improvement and I will not purchase any Redskin merchandise until they start winning. Snyder needs to get the message, financially, we the fans will not support the His Redskins.

This does not mean we stop hoping they will get better, just no more $$$$ until they do.

[markshark84]

I stopped buying all redskins merchandise and haven't paid to attend a game since 2002. I will always love my skins but will never give a penny of mine to the worst owner in all of sports.

I think most think you have to have the latest gear and go to the games to be a real fan --- I couldn't disagree more. On the contrary -- I think what I'm doing makes me a better fan....

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Collective bargaining...
You not supporting your team isnt effective in anything accept representation of the players who deserve it.

Even when we suck there are individuals putting forth enough effort to warrant representing their number.. a DY jersey for instance would be sweet, , Kerrigan seems like a better fit for the misses, and I really hope Reed can stay healthy enough to become the next Co0ley! *Garçon and or Djax are deserving too. Not much really ther players id wear tho.

People know me as a "skins fan," and win or lose I wear my colors proudly.. by not buyer ng skins gear ik not denting Snyders pocket, and not supporting my team either.

To not wear your colors in rough times, to me, spells the definition of fair weather fan.

[everydayAskinsday]

how does not buying anything or not attending a game help prove anything? Ok if you don't want to spend money on Redskins merchandise that is fine but by not attending games you are only hurting yourself and the team IMO...

I love going to games and enjoy cheering loudly for my team and if I had the opportunities I would go every game. Not going just means more fans from other teams will buy the extra tickets and take away any chance of a home field edge we could have which hurts the team so you aren't doing anything to affect Dan Snyder aside from helping keep his team at a disadvantage.

the whole Dan Snyder bashing is getting old too.. look I don't love every decision this guy makes but to act like he doesn't want to put a winner on the field is just plain dumb. I have gained a lot of respect for him also in his defense of keeping the team name.. 95% of the other owners would have caved immediately..

so go ahead and make your "stand" because the team isn't performing well but be grateful we aren't the Washington Warriors at this point..

[Deadskins]

I think what I'm doing makes me a better fan....

Picking against them in Hognostications?

[GibbSkins]

[markshark84]

Collective bargaining...
You not supporting your team isnt effective in anything accept representation of the players who deserve it.

Even when we suck there are individuals putting forth enough effort to warrant representing their number.. a DY jersey for instance would be sweet, , Kerrigan seems like a better fit for the misses, and I really hope Reed can stay healthy enough to become the next Co0ley! *Garçon and or Djax are deserving too. Not much really ther players id wear tho.

People know me as a "skins fan," and win or lose I wear my colors proudly.. by not buyer ng skins gear ik not denting Snyders pocket, and not supporting my team either.

To not wear your colors in rough times, to me, spells the definition of fair weather fan.

First off, I don't think you can call anyone on this site a "fair weather" fan. We've made the playoffs 3 times in the past 15 years..... We are still on here day in, day out.

Oh I wear Skins gear. I just don't buy "official" gear --- the type that puts $$$ in Danny's pockets. I buy jersey's almost every season from China. This year I bought a Morris for myself and Kerrigan for the wife and brother. They are $25 ($30 with shipping) and very nice. It used to take forever to receive them, but now I get them in less than a week from purchase.

I also believe that there are a number of players that work hard, but I ultimately believe that the best thing for the franchise is to do what I personally can do to get rid of Snyder --- and being powerless, all I can do is not give him my $$$. So --- I have found a solution to both "wearing the colors" and not giving my hard earned $$$ to a fool. And to the players working hard --- just like in any profession --- if you have talent, you will always have a home; whether in DC or elsewhere. As a professional, I left DC for greener pastures; that is just the way it is.

[markshark84]

how does not buying anything or not attending a game help prove anything? Ok if you don't want to spend money on Redskins merchandise that is fine but by not attending games you are only hurting yourself and the team IMO...

the whole Dan Snyder bashing is getting old too.. look I don't love every decision this guy makes but to act like he doesn't want to put a winner on the field is just plain dumb.

I have gained a lot of respect for him also in his defense of keeping the team name.. 95% of the other owners would have caved immediately..

so go ahead and make your "stand" because the team isn't performing well but be grateful we aren't the Washington Warriors at this point..

You didn't read my post. I said I haven't "paid" to attend a skins game. I have gone to MANY games; I am either given the tickets or get them thru work. I have no issue going; I love my skins ----- what I have an issue with is giving my $$$ to a stupid and inept owner.

The fact Danny "wants" to put out a winner doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that he DOES. You can have all the desire in the world, but if you don't have the smarts, you just plain won't succeed. Danny boy doesn't have the football smarts nor does he seem to learn from his repeated mistakes.

The fact Danny won't change the name --- which I thing is respectable of him also --- is consistent with his personality. He is stubborn and driven by his ego. If he is told to do something, you can almost guarantee it he will fight you tooth and nail against it. And those can be great qualities (well, not the ego) --- but when it comes to actual football ownership (and not the team name) Danny's stubborness and egotistical nature are huge weaknesses since he lacks football knowledge --- and he's too stubborn and ego driven to realize it.

Sorry, editing this post for another thought:

Are you seriously implying that not financially supporting the organization (via ticket sales and merchandise purchases) doesn't send a message to ownership???? Not giving Danny boy your $$$$ sends the loudest message possible. It dilutes and marginalizes Danny's greatest asset. Without financial support from tickest/merchandise, an NFL is not sustainable. And whether you want to believe it or not, buying merchandise and paying for tickets to games shows support for Snyder --- after all, he LITERALLY runs the organization. You can try and fool yourself into thinking that going to the games means you are only supporting "the team" --- but at the end of the day, a MUCH LARGER portion of your ticket price, parking, concessions, merchandise, etc. goes to Danny, not the players. And IMHO, getting rid of Danny is what is BEST for this franchise.

I desperately want the Skins to win and having a Snyderless franchise is the best way to build a winner. I would be happy to suffer 10 years (my estimate of the duration of time Danny would last as owner if he received little fan financial support) if it meant getting Danny to sell. After all, what's 10 years when we've already suffered nearly 20 with him......

[Kilmer72]

You can blame Dan Snyder all you want. He doesn't coach, play, act as GM. Bruce is in charge. Yes Dan picked him. He knows enough now to put it in someones hands that knows way more than he does. We might need a better GM, but he has hardly had a big enough chance yet (As a Redskin). I will admit there is a black cloud that wont go away since Dan has owned
the team. It's like bad Karma.

No, to me it looks like coaching,players and bad luck.

[SKINS#1]

Maybe a stadium full of fans with bags over their head would get his attention.

[markshark84]

You can blame Dan Snyder all you want. He doesn't coach, play, act as GM. Bruce is in charge. Yes Dan picked him. He knows enough now to put it in someones hands that knows way more than he does. We might need a better GM, but he has hardly had a big enough chance yet (As a Redskin). I will admit there is a black cloud that wont go away since Dan has owned
the team. It's like bad Karma.

No, to me it looks like coaching,players and bad luck.

I think you put it well --- there has been a black cloud over the franchise since Danny took over the team. I personally believe that cloud will go away when Danny does.... I have also found that good owners generally have successful franchises. Owners are the end all-be all. Everything starts and stops with them. Pointing fingers and pushing blame back to those you hire is a dangerous business.

I also understand that Danny has "said" he will take himself out of football relations. My issue is whether I believe him..... and I am someone who gives the benefit of the doubt to those that have EARNED it. Danny, based on past history, just hasn't. I still don't have a definitive opinion on Allen since he's only been the real GM for a year, but this draft and it's success will be very telling.

[hanburgerheel]

It's really become hard to remain a fan. I started watching as a young boy, with my Dad, on Sundays with Sonny and Billy Kilmer as the QB. I've never seen them this bad. It's constant now. They have ONE regular season win in 12 months, and that was against an even worse team. When you throw in this perpetual name gripe and the contempt it draws, it really makes it even worse. I'm really considering just taking a break from watching it at all. Snyder's ownership will always equal despair and dysfunction, I'm afraid.

[langleyparkjoe]

Great thread!
Didn't read the responses because I figure they probably are all about a bunch of blind loyalty crap.
Me, I'm not paying for tickets anymore.. Here's the last 3 games I attended... Last year's Cow game (primetime), Giants game (primetime), and Seahawks game (primetime). I also been to day games and we've lost... Put it this way, I've been to a few we've won (majority of them RG3's rookie year) but overall it's the losses that outweigh the wins.
I'll always be a fan but I trashed that flag that was on my car, I packed up all the jerseys I own and boxed them away, and the caps are locked up in a closet. They embarrass fans, make us feel like crap by the constant losing culture and I've had it folks. I would always be the "oh come on now, give it a chance" type of guy... Boy do I feel foolish now.
1-5... I hope we have the worst record in the league to get a good draft position, hopefully that's with 3 wins because I still want to beat the cows.
For the rest of you folks who will continue to "support" them, good luck with that.
Will me staying away and not buying merchandise help change things, nope it sure won't but at least it'll make me feel better. Who's to blame? I don't know, and I honestly don't give a damn. Heck, WHEN we change our name that's a free pass for me to really bounce and don't look back.
RedZone was GREAT while the Skins game was on, I only felt miserable when they showed AZ crapping all over us but since my expectations were rock bottom I got over it pretty quickly.
HAIL TO ME NOT CARING ANYMORE, I ENJOY FOOTBALL SOOO MUCH MORE NOW!!!!

[Kilmer72]

Great thread!
Didn't read the responses because I figure they probably are all about a bunch of blind loyalty crap.
Me, I'm not paying for tickets anymore.. Here's the last 3 games I attended... Last year's Cow game (primetime), Giants game (primetime), and Seahawks game (primetime). I also been to day games and we've lost... Put it this way, I've been to a few we've won (majority of them RG3's rookie year) but overall it's the losses that outweigh the wins.
I'll always be a fan but I trashed that flag that was on my car, I packed up all the jerseys I own and boxed them away, and the caps are locked up in a closet. They embarrass fans, make us feel like crap by the constant losing culture and I've had it folks. I would always be the "oh come on now, give it a chance" type of guy... Boy do I feel foolish now.
1-5... I hope we have the worst record in the league to get a good draft position, hopefully that's with 3 wins because I still want to beat the cows.
For the rest of you folks who will continue to "support" them, good luck with that.
Will me staying away and not buying merchandise help change things, nope it sure won't but at least it'll make me feel better. Who's to blame? I don't know, and I honestly don't give a damn. Heck, WHEN we change our name that's a free pass for me to really bounce and don't look back.
RedZone was GREAT while the Skins game was on, I only felt miserable when they showed AZ crapping all over us but since my expectations were rock bottom I got over it pretty quickly.
HAIL TO ME NOT CARING ANYMORE, I ENJOY FOOTBALL SOOO MUCH MORE NOW!!!!

So what you are really trying to say is you are a little upset?


Relax man. Now that debt has been paid and a first time NFL Head Coach is getting experience, we are building. I'm not sure what the answer was to last year but now we have new excuses. New coach, figuring out who he really has and needs. This whole crew needs more time.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

MARKSHARK-

I typed collective bargaining, but meant Profit sharing. Not to mention how deep Snyders pockets- not supporting your team is only hurting your team.

I get the whole blame Snyder act.. he didnt get any love for 2012 but I guess thats how it goes.
I dont think he is meddling- but no one can prove it either way here.
The Jerruh single handedly destroyed the pukes after letting Jimmy go- egotistical as it was- hes finally showed restraint, and learned to build via draft; starting w the trenches. Same recipe Gibbs had. To think Snyder cant or wont learn is extremely biased, but again cant prove anything just have to wait it out.

Fair weather fans- I did not accuse anyone here or anyone at all actually. . Just made a comment. Now if you are getting defensive- idk u tell me?
buying china gear does what exactly? Support sweat shops? Thats cool u still support current players tho.

Dont take your dissatisfaction with Kirk out on me playa... I wont even say I told ya so! Kirk, aka Rex jr, just isnt what some people want him to be.. sad that his play has people not wanting to be fans any more tho! Damn

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I think what I'm doing makes me a better fan....

Picking against them in Hognostications?

I saw that too.. shook my head and thought about what kind of lowlife picks against his team for a board in support of said team with nothing on the line accept bragging rights. Funniest part about it though, even through cheating neither of the hognostitraitors could get the W for the week! Fn losers

[markshark84]

MARKSHARK-

I typed collective bargaining, but meant Profit sharing. Not to mention how deep Snyders pockets- not supporting your team is only hurting your team.

I get the whole blame Snyder act.. he didnt get any love for 2012 but I guess thats how it goes.
I dont think he is meddling- but no one can prove it either way here.
The Jerruh single handedly destroyed the pukes after letting Jimmy go- egotistical as it was- hes finally showed restraint, and learned to build via draft; starting w the trenches. Same recipe Gibbs had. To think Snyder cant or wont learn is extremely biased, but again cant prove anything just have to wait it out.

Fair weather fans- I did not accuse anyone here or anyone at all actually. . Just made a comment. Now if you are getting defensive- idk u tell me?
buying china gear does what exactly? Support sweat shops? Thats cool u still support current players tho.

Dont take your dissatisfaction with Kirk out on me playa... I wont even say I told ya so! Kirk, aka Rex jr, just isnt what some people want him to be.. sad that his play has people not wanting to be fans any more tho! Damn

I don't think you quite understand the "profit sharing" plan in place between the NFL and players..... Read the deal before you want to act like you know something.

And you haven't explained how I'm not "supporting" the team. I watch the games, I cheer. I have jerseys. They are literally the only professional team I follow. Is "support" to you, spending your $$$ on them? Because if it is, your "post" is even dumber than I thought. If so, you think all fans should instead blindly give $$$ like a fool to an organization putting out an inferior product (hence, having no consequence for failure...)? Hey, if you are cool with that, great. I hope you are like that with everything ---- we need guys like you out in the marketplace to make me more $$$$. I've got some stock I'd love for you to buy. It'll make you 1% over 5. Based on your current standards you'll love it......

And 1 F#&#ing year is nothing. I don't care if we made the playoffs and lost 2 years ago. Is that your standard? Do you truly accept not even mediocrity as your barometer for "success"?

And Jerry Jones has won NOTHING since the Jimmy Johnson years and the subsequent ripple --- which was an era build by drafting players (something Danny boy never understood --- and literally anyone on earth with over 100 brain cells understood the "new" (at the time) method for building teams). Switzer don't count.

And to think Danny won't learn --- what in the F$@# makes you think he will? His incredible success rate? His history of learning from his mistakes......... You know he's been our owner for close to 20 years right? The best indicator of success if previous success....... That is well established. Are you that thick headed or are you a guy who, against all credible information, thinks your opinion will be that one in a million that goes against logic and reason. If that's the case, I've got a bridge in brooklyn I think you'd be interested in buying......

Sweat shops???? STFU. It's the market, idoit. And you own nothing manufactured in China??? Hypocrite. If you are against the free market, go move to Laos. You'll love it!!!!! You can start a redskins fan group Savannakhet.

I've never been a kirk fan. He's better than McCoy and hopefully worse than RGIII. What I HAVE actually said is that RGIII is a huge ???. Oh yeah --- as I said, way to play both sides of the fence just to jump when the moment was right. No No No --- you "support" both. And do you know anything about Rex? Kirk and Rex play a vastly different style game and have different attributes..... but what am I even doing --- you won't understand this...

[markshark84]

I think what I'm doing makes me a better fan....

Picking against them in Hognostications?

I saw that too.. shook my head and thought about what kind of lowlife picks against his team for a board in support of said team with nothing on the line accept bragging rights. Funniest part about it though, even through cheating neither of the hognostitraitors could get the W for the week! Fn losers

I prefer to be correct over partial. That will never change. You don't know me, but I'm quite competitive. Fortunately for me, my parent's weren't the "good try" or "that's ok" type.

And go back and check the website. Gushogs (who picked AZ) won the week; I lost to GusHogs by 1 point in the tiebreaker. You can't even get things right when they are right there in front of you.......

And speaking of loser --- how'd you do last year?

[Deadskins]

Partiality has nothing to do with it. It's incredibly low and unsportsmanlike to try and get a leg up on your fellow Hognosticators by picking the Redskins' opposition. If there was money on the line, then it would be one thing, but since this is a Redskins fan site, and we are playing for nothing more than pride, you just look like an ass. And here's what gushogs had to say about his picking Arizona:

I was going to write about this since I realized my mistake yesterday afternoon, in fact, I don't know how to make up for it because it was a true mistake. I know what it looks like and no matter how many apologies I make, there is always going to be the fact I did wrong.

No punishment is good enough to have picked against the team in hognostications. So you guys have the last word.

HaiL,

[DarthMonk]

Partiality has nothing to do with it. It's incredibly low and unsportsmanlike to try and get a leg up on your fellow Hognosticators by picking the Redskins' opposition. If there was money on the line, then it would be one thing, but since this is a Redskins fan site, and we are playing for nothing more than pride, you just look like an ass. And here's what gushogs had to say about his picking Arizona:

I was going to write about this since I realized my mistake yesterday afternoon, in fact, I don't know how to make up for it because it was a true mistake. I know what it looks like and no matter how many apologies I make, there is always going to be the fact I did wrong.

No punishment is good enough to have picked against the team in hognostications. So you guys have the last word.

HaiL,

Hey, Gus:

I can change your pick if you want.

DM = Commish

[grampi]

the whole Dan Snyder bashing is getting old too.. look I don't love every decision this guy makes but to act like he doesn't want to put a winner on the field is just plain dumb.

I don't think anyone would question Dan's desire to win...it's his ability to choose staff members who can build a winning team that are highly questionable...

[SkinsJock]

any fan that picks against their own team doesn't just 'look like an ass' - he's clearly showing he's a loser

[grampi]

any fan that picks against their own team doesn't just 'look like an ass' - he's clearly showing he's a loser

Not if there's money riding on it...betting on the Skins is a sure loser every time...

[oneman56]

the whole Dan Snyder bashing is getting old too.. look I don't love every decision this guy makes but to act like he doesn't want to put a winner on the field is just plain dumb.

I don't think anyone would question Dan's desire to win...it's his ability to choose staff members who can build a winning team that are highly questionable...

Agreed Grampi. Nobody, that i've read anyways, has ever questioned that Dan wants to be a winner. The bashing comes from his methods, FA overspending, not valuing draft picks, not paying homegrown guys and overpaying for other franchises players, etc. Dan deserves the criticism he gets IMO, he's the top of the food chain in the org and it all starts with him. His record since buying the team speaks volumes. I love that he wants to win but I hate that he can't see he's his own worst enemy.

[DarthMonk]

any fan that picks against their own team doesn't just 'look like an ass' - he's clearly showing he's a loser

Not if there's money riding on it...betting on the Skins is a sure loser every time...

A few weeks ago I won over $100, in part, because I picked Seattle to beat us. I pulled for us to win the entire game. My brother missed out on winning over $100 where he works because he cannot separate money from cheering.