Brian Orakpo - LB

[DarthMonk]

Brian Orakpo - LB - Redskins

GM Bruce Allen said the Redskins have begun contract talks with free agent OLB Brian Orakpo.
The Redskins will stick with the 3-4 in the Jay Gruden era, and there aren't many better edge players for the scheme than Orakpo. He's piled up 39.5 sacks in 64 career games, and is coming off a career year that saw Orakpo grade out as a top-four 3-4 OLB according to PFF. Allen has also opened talks with ILB Perry Riley and DB DeAngelo Hall, but re-signing 27-year-old Orakpo is the top priority. Last year's top free agent outside linebacker, Paul Kruger, landed a five-year, $41 million deal with the Browns.
Related: Perry Riley, DeAngelo Hall

Source: Washington Times Feb 5 - 8:06 AM

[riggofan]

Obviously a lot of chatter out there about Orakpo now that teams can decide to use the franchise tag.

Personally I think the discussion of whether or not to re-sign/tag Rak is pretty well moot. Haz obviously wants him back. I also think its obvious that not signing him would mean a downgrade at the position which isn't something our defense can really afford.

I'd still rather see the team put together a nice deal for him rather than use the tag. I was wondering if any of you cap geeks can comment on the advantages/disadvantages of one v. the other?

Also: Snyder has been willing to pay a lot of upfront signing bonus money in the past. Does that money make a long term deal for Orakpo more likely and is it any better with regards to the cap?

Thanks, smart guys.

[riggofan]

Experts' take: What to do with Orakpo?
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... ith-orakpo

Louis Riddick: ....There’s not a number for how I would value him. It’s going to be tricky. Would I want to keep him? Yes. Would I want to extend above and beyond and get him into the nose-bleed area for guaranteed money in the first three years? No, I would not. ... I’d be very prepared to let him walk. That being said, there aren’t a lot of good pass-rushers available in free agency and there aren’t a lot of guys who will win one-on-ones early in their career in the draft so that will work in his favor.

Matt Williamson: That defense needs everything, it really does. He’s their best player on defense, they have a lot of cap room, they can’t let him go. He’s one of the few free agents that you have to give the big money to. If that means franchising him, I think he’s worth it. He’s an all-around player. He’s their best pass-rusher, probably one of the best 10 pass-rushers in the league in his prime and he recovered from his injury. I thought he had a good year. He was a constant pressure guy. He’s a quick-twitch athlete who can get low and still be powerful. He explodes off the ball and he’s a high-motor guy. I don’t think he’ll be elite. He won’t be Dwight Freeney in his prime, and if you looked at his strengths and weaknesses as a pass-rusher, he’s not extreme in any of them but he’s above average in many. Freeney was so low and explosive off the snap, you always remember those things with him. Orakpo doesn’t have one trait that you say, ‘Wow, I’ve got to stop that.’

[riggofan]

Only a couple hours left for the team to make a decision. Ed Werder says they're prepared to tag him!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -deadline/

Werder reports that the Redskins are prepared to use the tag on Orakpo Monday if they are unable to agree on a long-term contract by the deadline. Doing so would all but ensure Orakpo’s return since other teams would have to fork over two first-round picks to sign him away and would also buy more time to reach agreement on a multi-year deal that would be a better fit in the overall salary structure in Washington.

Tough decision for the team. I think there are valid arguments for and against tagging Orakpo.

[emoses14]

If they tag him today, are they permitted to work out a long term deal, say prior to or during the free agency period, that replaces the tag designation on the books? In other words, if they reach a long term deal after tagging him, does the long term deal's 2014 cap hit replace the $11.5M cap hit from the tag?

[riggofan]

If they tag him today, are they permitted to work out a long term deal, say prior to or during the free agency period, that replaces the tag designation on the books? In other words, if they reach a long term deal after tagging him, does the long term deal's 2014 cap hit replace the $11.5M cap hit from the tag?

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think so.

It seems to me if the Skins tag him, it would be in Rak's best interests to still try to get a long term deal done, wouldn't it? The $11m is awesome, but if he gets injured this year or doesn't live up to that money, its a risk for him.

[The Hogster]

ORAKPO GIVEN FRANCHISE TAG.

Official news on www.redskins.com

[riggofan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... on-orakpo/

Update 1:31 p.m.: The Washington Redskins announced that they will use the franchise tag on top pass-rusher Brian Orakpo to avoid losing him in free agency.

[Kilmer72]

This is for the best. Let's see how this plays out one more year in a row for Rak. He needs to earn that elite money. He has improved.

[riggofan]

If they tag him today, are they permitted to work out a long term deal, say prior to or during the free agency period, that replaces the tag designation on the books? In other words, if they reach a long term deal after tagging him, does the long term deal's 2014 cap hit replace the $11.5M cap hit from the tag?

Here is the answer on PFT btw:

The Redskins will have until July 15 to work out a long-term deal with Orakpo.

[emoses14]

Awesome. Thanks.

[DarthMonk]

Different players have different levels of commitment to excellence.

If Haynesworth was a zero and Art Monk was a 10, what is Rak?

This money will make him more of whatever he is now.

What is he?

[The Hogster]

Different players have different levels of commitment to excellence.

If Haynesworth was a zero and Art Monk was a 10, what is Rak?

This money will make him more of whatever he is now.

What is he?

Based on known information about him. The positive is that he's been considered a workout beast at least since his UT days, so I don't think he lacks work ethic or a commitment to the gym. But, I have heard him say in an interview something like "You won't see me doing any spin moves or anything like that. I just do what I do." That raised an eyebrow for me because my personal view of him is that he only has a couple of moves. He bull rushes, dips shoulder to the outside, or winds up stuck on a block. In my opinion, if he were more committed to developing his arsenal of moves/techniques, he'd take the leap to elite. But, if he thinks he can just over power people or run by them, he'll be a 10 sack guy which is good but not near great. The elite guys can beat you with both power and finesse. He hasn't done that.

But, I don't think he's the kind of player that will be changed by the money if that's what you mean. He'll still be a gym rat. I just think he needs to work on his weaknesses or else he's probably at his ceiling. At his age, he's not going to get much stronger or faster...he's got to find other ways to beat people.

Hell, even Michael Jordan developed a fadeaway jumper that was unstoppable later in his career. What makes Rak think he's any different.

[EA7649]

Different players have different levels of commitment to excellence.

If Haynesworth was a zero and Art Monk was a 10, what is Rak?

This money will make him more of whatever he is now.

What is he?

IMO 8
Because his health history. I do think he would be better in a DE position, since he is such a good rusher. But he is quick enough to go LB. Being able to be flexible enough to play both is a GREAT treat.

[Irn-Bru]

Not the best value for our money, but I much prefer a franchise tag to a 5-year megadeal. I was hoping we could replace him with Jackson + someone else, but that may have been wishful thinking.

Welcome back, Rak.

[Neo]

I'm on the fence about this one. If we would have lost him, it would have been a negative for us. Its just that I'm not too fond of how expensive he was to keep.

After all, we have paid him to be injured for what, nearly two seasons or something? Doesn't he owe this team?

Anyway, just wanted to vent that out...welcome back Rak! Keep your @$$ healthy or else!

[DarthMonk]

Different players have different levels of commitment to excellence.

If Haynesworth was a zero and Art Monk was a 10, what is Rak?

This money will make him more of whatever he is now.

What is he?

Based on known information about him. The positive is that he's been considered a workout beast at least since his UT days, so I don't think he lacks work ethic or a commitment to the gym. But, I have heard him say in an interview something like "You won't see me doing any spin moves or anything like that. I just do what I do." That raised an eyebrow for me because my personal view of him is that he only has a couple of moves. He bull rushes, dips shoulder to the outside, or winds up stuck on a block. In my opinion, if he were more committed to developing his arsenal of moves/techniques, he'd take the leap to elite. But, if he thinks he can just over power people or run by them, he'll be a 10 sack guy which is good but not near great. The elite guys can beat you with both power and finesse. He hasn't done that.

But, I don't think he's the kind of player that will be changed by the money if that's what you mean. He'll still be a gym rat. I just think he needs to work on his weaknesses or else he's probably at his ceiling. At his age, he's not going to get much stronger or faster...he's got to find other ways to beat people.

Hell, even Michael Jordan developed a fadeaway jumper that was unstoppable later in his career. What makes Rak think he's any different.

Just the kind of reply I was hoping for. In conjunction with the one after yours I'd say an 8 is about right. Didn't think it would change him at all. These big contracts don't change people - they just show what people really are even more. I'm thinking he will work hard but may not be quite dedicated (or talented?) enough to truly improve his craft.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Players don't come from college equipped with everything that they need. I think of Champ Bailey talking about how D. Green is a main contributor to his success. Who did Orakpo have when he came here? It doesn't have to be a player, it can be coaching. That being said, we brought in a OLB coach to work with Kerrigan and Orakpo specifically. Hopefully the coach is good and the players are receptive to good coaching.

[The Hogster]

Here's a video clip where a guy points out what I said in the previous post. Orakpo is far above average at his two moves. The problem is, he only has two moves that he uses effectively. If he can be a 10 sack guy just using his bull rush and speed rush, he could become elite if he developed a more complete game. He barely ever uses a club move, or an inside or outside spin move.

I give him a pass for not using an outside spin much given the gap discipline that a 3-4 requires. But, I can't understand why a guy who is so good at speed rushing to the outside and bull rushing wouldn't set up his inside spin by taking advantage of the tackle getting off balance expecting his speed rush or bull rush which he uses 90 percent of the time.

If he adds a couple more moves to his arsenal, I see no reason why he can't get another 5 or so sacks per year. 15 sacks is in that elite category. 10 is just very good. He's very good right now. But, wants to be paid like he's elite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpdSDvfl_Yg

[riggofan]

I'm still a little torn when I read these comments that Orakpo is "not worth the money". I think I disagree with that. If we're overpaying for Rak, I would argue that we're not GROSSLY overpaying him. He's good, he's young, he's a homegrown guy, and we're not creating another hole on the defense by letting him walk.

There are other teams around the league who would pay $10-$11m to take him from us, so I don't think its true that we're overpaying him. The real concern about the money for Rak is just that we have so many other needs to fill this offseason. Can we afford to pay him?

Here's my question for you guys. What do you need to see from Orakpo this year to make this deal worth the money? (Rak was tied for 6th in the league with 10 sacks last year.) Or is it more about seeing the defense as a whole improve?

[Chris Luva Luva]

Here's a video clip where a guy points out what I said in the previous post. Orakpo is far above average at his two moves. The problem is, he only has two moves that he uses effectively. If he can be a 10 sack guy just using his bull rush and speed rush, he could become elite if he developed a more complete game. He barely ever uses a club move, or an inside or outside spin move.

This is where I hope the new coach comes in. Baltimore isn't drafting guys who know every move in the book. They have one system, it works and the players are taught.

I give him a pass for not using an outside spin much given the gap discipline that a 3-4 requires.

Which brings to mind what Haz said in a recent interview. Our guys are worried too much about contain, he's about to let them loose and put more responsibility elsewhere.

If he adds a couple more moves to his arsenal, I see no reason why he can't get another 5 or so sacks per year. 15 sacks is in that elite category. 10 is just very good. He's very good right now. But, wants to be paid like he's elite.

And he's very good without a true NT..., that says a lot.



Thanks for the link.

[The Hogster]

Here's my question for you guys. What do you need to see from Orakpo this year to make this deal worth the money? (Rak was tied for 6th in the league with 10 sacks last year.) Or is it more about seeing the defense as a whole improve?

I want to see him become the leader of this defense. When you're the highest paid defensive player, I think leadership must be that attribute that plays into justification for that kind of money--especially since London Fletcher is no longer there. He's now the most senior linebacker, highest paid, and most physically gifted. But, he's got to improve his weaknesses.

Which brings me to the second thing I want to see from him. More versatility. He's somewhat of a one-trick pony. I want to see him add more moves to his arsenal, and improve in coverage. Ryan Kerrigan has a knack for making plays (tipped balls, interceptions, forced fumbles)

I want to see Orakpo become the noticeably best player on our defense and make the team want to sign him to a long-term extension if they don't before this season begins.

[riggofan]

Here's my question for you guys. What do you need to see from Orakpo this year to make this deal worth the money? (Rak was tied for 6th in the league with 10 sacks last year.) Or is it more about seeing the defense as a whole improve?

I want to see him become the leader of this defense. When you're the highest paid defensive player, I think leadership must be that attribute that plays into justification for that kind of money--especially since London Fletcher is no longer there. He's now the most senior linebacker, highest paid, and most physically gifted. But, he's got to improve his weaknesses.

Which brings me to the second thing I want to see from him. More versatility. He's somewhat of a one-trick pony. I want to see him add more moves to his arsenal, and improve in coverage. Ryan Kerrigan has a knack for making plays (tipped balls, interceptions, forced fumbles)

I want to see Orakpo become the noticeably best player on our defense and make the team want to sign him to a long-term extension if they don't before this season begins.

Good answers, man. I like it - especially your comment about leadership.

I agree about seeing him become the "noticeably best player on our defense". I want to see multiple games this season where Rak is causing trouble for our opponents. I want to see a couple real "monster" games.

Btw I heard C00ley respond to the comment about Orakpo being a one trick pony. He said Orakpo is actually a two-trick pony because he is really good against the run.

[riggofan]

Food for thought (which might make you sick):

Since 1983, only 3 #Redskins first-round picks have signed 2nd contracts w/the team—Arrington, Samuels, and Darrell Green. - via Rich Tandler

[Kilmer72]

Here is to hoping that RAK can sack Foles,Eli and Romo 95% of the 10 or 11 sacks he gets. That is the only part of the money spent that bothers me. He may not learn new tricks. He hasn't learned to get out of holds (not enough moves). I like Rak and I am happy he is still here and I think the Franchise Tag was the way to go. I can't see him averaging 10 mil a year. That is was too much. I wish we had the luxury to pay like that. 1 year FT deal and now he has to perform a whole season.