Let Orakpo go

[Neo]

Why not a reasonable contract w/ performance incentives? Elite play = elite money.

If he doesn't like that, its his unspoken acknowledgment that he knows he's lost a step over the past couple years.

[Deadskins]

I don't think he's lost a step. He's just never developed any moves other than a speed rush, and is not the elite pass rusher that he thinks he is, or that he should be.

[SkinsJock]

I don't think he's lost a step. He's just never developed any moves other than a speed rush, and is not the elite pass rusher that he thinks he is, or that he should be.

make him the offer that's 'fair' - if the defensive guys think he's important to keep it should be a good deal for both sides ...

then .... add incentives to make it more likely he will sign if the defensive guys really do not want him to leave

[riggofan]

I think we'll make him a good offer to keep him here. Haslett was already quoted as saying, "Pay the man".

Here's what Rich Tandler wrote this morning:

LB Brian Orakpo—It seems likely that the Redskins will make a very fair offer to the player who has been at least tied for the team lead in sacks every season he’s played for them except for the one where he missed 14 games due to injury. There is a chance, however, that another team could come in and make an offer that is well above market price. The Redskins could lose him if that happens. Another option is the franchise tag but the team will have to decide if he’s worth right around $10 million for the 2014 season. Chances of returning 70%

That makes sense to me and is in line with what a lot of you guys are writing. Consensus seems to be that we should try to keep Rak, but don't be stupid about it.

There are thoughts on a couple other Redskins FAs in that article btw if you are interested:
http://realredskins.com/2014/01/13/need ... -who-goes/

[SkinsJock]

I think we'll make him a good offer to keep him here. Haslett was already quoted as saying, "Pay the man".

Here's what Rich Tandler wrote this morning:

LB Brian Orakpo—It seems likely that the Redskins will make a very fair offer to the player who has been at least tied for the team lead in sacks every season he’s played for them except for the one where he missed 14 games due to injury. There is a chance, however, that another team could come in and make an offer that is well above market price. The Redskins could lose him if that happens. Another option is the franchise tag but the team will have to decide if he’s worth right around $10 million for the 2014 season. Chances of returning 70%

That makes sense to me and is in line with what a lot of you guys are writing. Consensus seems to be that we should try to keep Rak, but don't be stupid about it.

There are thoughts on a couple other Redskins FAs in that article btw if you are interested:
http://realredskins.com/2014/01/13/need ... -who-goes/

I'll agree with that - it would seem that Orakpo did not help himself a lot this year but that also could be said for almost any player that's a part of a 3-13 team

we may lose him but I hope if we do it's because some other franchise pays him a lot more than he could be worth and not a lot more than what he's worth

Orakpo is worth a lot more than we all saw this past season and we need to pay him accordingly

and

put the players around him that will make him even better

[rskin72]

Well, I am no stat geek....but some google work came up with following:

2013 top base salary LB = Tamba Hali KC at 12,250,000 mil per season, age 30
2013 stats - GP -15; Comb - 46; total - 39; Asst - 7; Sacks -11

Rak Stats, age 27 - 2013 - GP 15; Comb - 60; total - 43; Asst - 17; sacks - 10

Comparing the two over the same amount of years....removing 2012 from both (Rak's injury season) so 2009, 10, 11 and 13 we have:

Rak - GP 62; Comb - 225; total - 150; Asst - 75; sacks - 38.5

Hali - GP -63; Comb - 225; total - 169; Asst - 56; Sacks - 46

Bottom line is Rak comes out pretty favorable there. The next largest base salary is David HArris (ILB) at 10,900,000 Here are his stats over same timeframe:

Harris - GP -64; Comb - 435; total - 286; Asst - 149; Sacks - 15.5

Guess you cannot really compare due to ILB vs OLB position.....but the next highest base salary for OLB is only 6,900,000 to Chad Greenway of Minn....so here are his stats over same timeframe:

GReenway - GP -64; Comb - 531; total - 361; Asst - 170; Sacks - 6.0

So if anything it looks like Greenway may be a bargain for Minn right now. Rak does seem to compare favorably to the highest paid OLB in 2013. I would think maybe just south of 10 mil....but again I am not a money guy....just did a little research because I was interested , and also bored at work. Looked up $$ info at following link....they break down all the players salaries, base, bonus, timeframe, etc....for those interested.

http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/out ... /limit-25/

[yupchagee]

I think we should keep him because:
1) You can't replace somebody with nobody, & I don't see an adequate replacement in sight.
2) A good coach can teach him some more moves.

[SkinsJock]

I think we should keep him because:
1) You can't replace somebody with nobody, & I don't see an adequate replacement in sight.
2) A good coach can teach him some more moves.

and if Haslett is the DC and really wants him because he knows he will be a force in the defense we're going to have this season, even more reason to "pay the man"

[rskin72]

OK....some more numbers from some well known OLB's....performance numbers are 2013:

Tamba Hali; 57.5 mil 5 year contract; 14.823,530 mil bonus; 35 mil guaranteed; 2011 first year

Terrell Suggs (31); 62.5 mil 6 yrs; 10.1 mil bonus; 38.1 mil guaranteed; 2009 first year
GP, 16; Combined tackles 80; total tackles 47; assisted tackles 33; sacks 10

Lance Briggs (33); 17.5 mil 3 yrs; 3 mil bonus; 8,25mil guaranteed; 2012 first year
GP, 9; Combined tackles 71; total tackles 50; assisted tackles 20; sacks 3

Robert Mathis (32) 4 yrs 36 mil, 15 mil bonus, 17mil guaranteed. 2012 first year
GP, 16; Combined tackles 59; total tackles 43; assisted tackles 16; sacks 19.5

Ahmad Brooks (29) 6 yrs 40.4 mil; 7.5 mil bonus; 8.25 mil guaranteed. 2012 first year
GP 16; Combined tackles 60; total tackles 52; assisted tackled 8; sacks 8.5


Ok.....my take looking over the numbers is Hali is overpaid. Now, I do not see KC games, so no eyeball test here. I do not put Rak into same disruptive category as Suggs, or Briggs (who only played 9 games this season). I would try for some type of Brooks deal....maybe more guarenteed money...maybe somewhere between 8-9 mil per season including bonus....or longer term contract for a little less per season. And try and lock him up for a longer contract as he is only 27.

Think we need to aggressively pursue keeping our talent, and Rak is certainly that.

[Irn-Bru]

I think we'll make him a good offer to keep him here. Haslett was already quoted as saying, "Pay the man".

Here's what Rich Tandler wrote this morning:

LB Brian Orakpo—It seems likely that the Redskins will make a very fair offer to the player who has been at least tied for the team lead in sacks every season he’s played for them except for the one where he missed 14 games due to injury. There is a chance, however, that another team could come in and make an offer that is well above market price. The Redskins could lose him if that happens. Another option is the franchise tag but the team will have to decide if he’s worth right around $10 million for the 2014 season. Chances of returning 70%

That makes sense to me and is in line with what a lot of you guys are writing. Consensus seems to be that we should try to keep Rak, but don't be stupid about it.

There are thoughts on a couple other Redskins FAs in that article btw if you are interested:
http://realredskins.com/2014/01/13/need ... -who-goes/

Sounds about right to me. I don't really like the idea of a franchise tag, but that's probably being over conservative. If another team overpays for the man, I won't begrudge him the money or be terribly sorry to see him go. At that point, it's business. I hope the Redskins can stand their ground if need be.

[Irn-Bru]

Why not a reasonable contract w/ performance incentives? Elite play = elite money.

The reason for "why not?" is that Orakpo would never sign a deal like that. Incentive-laden contracts are for injury-riddled veterans or risky prospects. Orakpo isn't either of those things, and some team is going to be willing to pay him without making the money dependent on incentives.

If he doesn't like that, its his unspoken acknowledgment that he knows he's lost a step over the past couple years.

I don't think so. It's just highly unusual to make a star player sign an incentive-heavy contract. Guys like Orakpo, who are hitting their prime, are judging contracts by how much of the money is guaranteed, not by how much they could possibly make it they play out of their minds. Don't forget that NFL also stands for Not For Long — he's looking to make his fortune while the getting is good, and I can't blame him.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

If u don't consider playing one full season of the past 4, if that?, injury prone idk what is! Seriously tho, I agree with all your points

[RayNAustin]

There are a few considerations in a decision like this ... none involve judging what rak is worth in general terms. The two main issues are, is there a better option at the $$ amount that it will take to resign him .... and ....will paying him prevent addressing other needs. The answer to the second question should be no, given the good cap position now that the penalty is over.

Given the horrible state of the defense, particularly pass defense, the last thing you can afford to do is downgrade, so regardless of $$, either you replace him with better production, or you pay to keep him.

Given the desperate need to upgrade the secondary, you can't upgrade there, and diminish your pass rush, since the two are so interdependent.

Rak may not have achieved that elite status, but he's close, and pass rushers are ALWAYS in short supply and high demand. He's young .. and he can improve, and that's what you do ... pay him, and get him coached up to reach for that next level, and upgrade the secondary, which will also help the pass rushers. If you let him walk, and don't have equal or better to replace him ... you're downgrading a defense that was already bad. That's the wrong direction ... obviously.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

There are a few considerations in a decision like this ... none involve judging what rak is worth in general terms. The two main issues are, is there a better option at the $$ amount that it will take to resign him .... and ....will paying him prevent addressing other needs. The answer to the second question should be no, given the good cap position now that the penalty is over.

Given the horrible state of the defense, particularly pass defense, the last thing you can afford to do is downgrade, so regardless of $$, either you replace him with better production, or you pay to keep him.

Given the desperate need to upgrade the secondary, you can't upgrade there, and diminish your pass rush, since the two are so interdependent.

Rak may not have achieved that elite status, but he's close, and pass rushers are ALWAYS in short supply and high demand. He's young .. and he can improve, and that's what you do ... pay him, and get him coached up to reach for that next level, and upgrade the secondary, which will also help the pass rushers. If you let him walk, and don't have equal or better to replace him ... you're downgrading a defense that was already bad. That's the wrong direction ... obviously.

+1

Terrific post there brother!

While I find his health a concern, he hasn't let it slow him down to "average" or worse. Proper coaches ought to be able to implement some more moves, like rgiii u can't teach his athleticism but u can hone his skills. I say pay the man and be glad you have one less hole to fill. Rob Jackson is a great back up and when u want the olb to drop into coverage.

[Deadskins]

There are a few considerations in a decision like this ... none involve judging what rak is worth in general terms. The two main issues are, is there a better option at the $$ amount that it will take to resign him .... and ....will paying him prevent addressing other needs. The answer to the second question should be no, given the good cap position now that the penalty is over.

Given the horrible state of the defense, particularly pass defense, the last thing you can afford to do is downgrade, so regardless of $$, either you replace him with better production, or you pay to keep him.

Given the desperate need to upgrade the secondary, you can't upgrade there, and diminish your pass rush, since the two are so interdependent.

Rak may not have achieved that elite status, but he's close, and pass rushers are ALWAYS in short supply and high demand. He's young .. and he can improve, and that's what you do ... pay him, and get him coached up to reach for that next level, and upgrade the secondary, which will also help the pass rushers. If you let him walk, and don't have equal or better to replace him ... you're downgrading a defense that was already bad. That's the wrong direction ... obviously.

Agreed on all counts.

[SkinsJock]

good NFL people make player decisions based on what they have, what they need and what is available

we have people like this in charge here now and making these type of decisions

seems pretty obvious in Orakpo's case .... pay the man

we also need to have all the players we have be 'evaluated' this way all the time






now if we could just 'evaluate' the stupid owner as well ...

[riggofan]

If he doesn't like that, its his unspoken acknowledgment that he knows he's lost a step over the past couple years.

I don't think so. It's just highly unusual to make a star player sign an incentive-heavy contract. Guys like Orakpo, who are hitting their prime, are judging contracts by how much of the money is guaranteed, not by how much they could possibly make it they play out of their minds. Don't forget that NFL also stands for Not For Long — he's looking to make his fortune while the getting is good, and I can't blame him.[/quote]

Nailed it. The man is only going to have so many opportunities to negotiate a contract like this while in his prime. I hope it works out to keep him, but I won't begrudge him for trying to get paid.

My question: I know the Redskins have often had an advantage over other teams by paying high signing bonuses, guaranteed money. I don't totally understand the cap implications of that, but is it still something we can leverage in negotiations with a player like Rak?

[mastdark81]

You have to franchise Orakpo. This does several things in the best interest of the team.

1. If you feel Orakpo is worth it, this guarantees he stays on the team. This ensure that he does not get a good feel of his value is out in the market, which is probably more than we want to pay him per year. He can then negotiate throughout the 2014 year and this adds extra motivation to get the long term deal. If there is any year that you put a "franchised" salary on the book it's this year, since our salary cap penalty is finally lifted.

2. For those that like Orakpo but do not feel he is worth paying, franchising him also provides value. Two first round picks is the asking price for a franchised player, and we both know he won't get that. However, the front office could negotiate a deal to get a 2nd rd pick in 2014 and 2015 2nd rd pick in exchange for Orakpo, for example.

[SkinsJock]

If Haslett and Jay really want Orakpo, we have an FO that will find a way to keep him ...

If he does not want to play here, he should be allowed to leave ...

this will work itself out - we need a group of guys playing well together not a bunch of 'star players' getting paid more than they're worth

[riggofan]

I'm sure you guys saw this earlier this week, but relevant to this discussion:
http://www.csnwashington.com/football-w ... -re-signed

“I think ‘Rak is, obviously, a priority [as well as] Perry,” Haslett said, speaking at the Senior Bowl. “And we’ve got some other guys on defense: Chris Baker did a good job [as did] D-Hall.”

Thought it was interesting the way it was worded. Not just that he wanted Rak back, but that he considers him a priority.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Is it just me.or did he look slim in the pro bowl? Can't say he did great in the coverage dept.. he did lay wood on Murray.. after he missed and it was in the endzone of course lol

[fredp45]

We need to keep Orakpo...the ability to pressure the qb is a must in the NFL or a defense isn't elite.

I'd give him a huge signing bonus and a 5 year contract to spread it over...

$25 mil signing bonus over 5 years, with reasonable salaries in years 1 and 2 (2-3 mil a year). If year one is 2 mil his cap hit = 7 mil in year 1. If his salary in year 2 is 3 mil, his cap hit = 8 mil, both very doable.

Year 3 salary should be manageable too. Years 4 & 5 will be ugly. However, by then we either redo it or cut and run.

Also, keep Jackson.

[riggofan]

We need to keep Orakpo...the ability to pressure the qb is a must in the NFL or a defense isn't elite.

Good point. I think people forget that is what led us to go crazy paying Albert Haynesworth. We had some really terrible years with no pass rush at all.

[SkinsJock]

we've been badly managed - that's no longer the case

these guys will keep the players they really need and add the players they really need - we used to just add players that made other teams 'good'

now we'll see players being drafted and brought in as free agents that might not 'look' as great but in fact, make our team better

this not fantasy football or the pro bowl team - this is about players making each other better and coaches getting the most out of them




I'd be surprised if Haslett does not make sure the FO brings back Orakpo to play with Riley, Kerrigan and Jackson